HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D) UPDATE new pics

[imafishingnutt]

This is what I found today on a minus tide
i detected near the water on a minus tide where you cant normally detect
and this is what I found.

UPDATE I ADDED THE TWO CLOSE UPS OF THE COIN

IMA SO EXCITED



24.5mm
Obv.: Yung Lo T'ung Pao
Rev.: Nail Mark on top left
Rarity:
Ref.: Not listed

HOLY COW ,,,,,......Reign Title: Yung Lo (1408-1424 a.d.)

However, we must take into account that in Japan during the period 1587-1617
were cast coins with the same legend
Now I'm stoked

THE COIN I FOUND...


THE ONE I FOUND RESEARCHING IT ON LINE...


​

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

If you think a mistake has been made by me, maybe you could clean it up a bit more and post some more clearer pics stating your position. If it is so different, I dont see it.

 

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[imafishingnutt]

although yours is close there is no nail mark and my research says they marked the older coins
I appreciate your research on this but if you have been reading about cash coins you must know that on the older ones simalar to mine
there were many veriaties of the same coin.
I agree yours is the closest match yet but you have no date or nail mark when i see one the same ill be more willing to except it.
and as far as the banner its due for removal anyway.
ima

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I removed my mention of the banner. It is not up to me to decide.

 

[imafishingnutt]

This is the best I could do on cleaning it.
the hand points to the nail mark
Hope this helps.
Ima

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I guess it does have some corrosion. If Im wrong, I will be totally embarrassed. But members should not be afraid to speak up, so I had to post my findings. I really do not know the age or its worth. The Zeno database has it as a "Machine struck copy of Ming dynasty Yung Lo." It has the same 1408-24 AD chinese dynasty date, but is considered a replica. From where it came from, is still a mystery. I would write to Cybernumis from the Zeno database and ask the owner of his coin where he got his from. http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=56113 There is no doubt in my mind that you found yours like you said. Could the hole have been punched on the coin at a later date by the owner or for jewelry purposes? If machine struck, there should be many others. I am finished here and am not researching any further. If I accidentally find anything, I will post it.

You might try weighing yours and comparing the weight.
Weight, g: 3.15
Size, mm: 23.9
Metal: brass

 

[Montana Jim]

This is the best I could do on cleaning it.
the hand points to the nail mark
Hope this helps.
Ima

Ima -

You keep pointing to the "nail mark"... but, in every reference I could find the marks were on the "Reverse".

Why do you keep showing the "Obverse" as the side with the nail mark?

Also... you keep saying "nail mark". Do you understand that the nail marks are normally cresent moon shaped marks that were (as legend has it) made by the emperesses when they inspected the original wax mold prior to the coins being struck? The "nail marks" are literally left by the ladies finernails.

They are not little holes or dots. They are also not up on the ridge... they are where the mintmarks are normally placed on the reverse.



This might be one on yours... however, this may have also been there with the machine struck fakes since the back has no ridge.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for clearing up the nail marks, Jim.

 

[hmmm]

I found this coin , the question is , is it a real one.

 

[Montana Jim]

I found this coin , the question is , is it a real one.

Hmmm... I think for maximum effect you'll want to start your own topic in the "what is it" forum... and show both sides... that is a real nice clear picture you posted - but show both sides correctly oriented.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Now that its done, I feel a bit odd that I rained on your parade Ima, but I feel that I did the right thing. If I kept it to myself, you would have found out sooner or later. Did I break any TN rules?




As far as your cash coin hmmm, it looks old by the corrosion and patina. I cant read the writing to ID, but I think you already know what it is.

 

[imafishingnutt]

I relize this thread is old but that coin may look the same but mine has a raised mark at the 4:30 spot if its a clock. on the face and mine also has a nail mark on the top of the face or at least a punch mark,

 

[imafishingnutt]

this is not a cpmmemorative coin PROOVE IT

 

[imafishingnutt]

I CALL BS its not even the same coin lol And ill research more to prove it mine has another mark on the face and a punch mark and just for the record i found it where its normaly under water a combination of salt and fresh water. inside the harbour of depoe bay. your coin is not the same and how can yu say mine didnt have enough wear on it lol look at the outer ring of yours and the outer ring of mine way smaller YOUR WRONG SORRY

 

[imafishingnutt]

you didnt ID nothing go rain on someone else im glad i popped back in.
reading your comments they are starting to piss me off no offence but i call BS

 

[imafishingnutt]

the coin does have wear on it lots of it the edges are worn down the coin back is warn smooth andthe hole is bigger because of corrosion i have just sent pics to china and some other cash coin collectors so we can settle this once and for all. i appreciate the research I do, but i think you are wrong on a couple things one the coin you post is not the same andtwo the corrosion you say it lacks. we will see

 

[SilverDreams]

Congrats! That is a cool find.

 

[mariposagold]

AMAZING FIND.

 

[rmbutcher4]

Nice job! Great Coin. I'm surprised at the condition of that coin. Salt water usually does a number on coins.Congratulations

 

[imafishingnutt]

OK OK so after all the doubt on my coin i took better pics and sent them to a Coin dealer collector of chinese coins,
1. the email replies the coin is not fake as some may see,
2. the question is how it arrived and here is his email on how some arrived.
either way it is still the oldest coin to date found in Oregon.
here is his reply Email paste.

I doubt it is a replica, and I am fairly certain your attribution to the Ming period is correct. However, that does not mean it was lost there in the Ming Period. Even in the 1880's the strings of cash circulating in China had a fair number of these coins in them (and many much older coins, as Schjoth reports finding Han Dynast Wu Shu coins in some of the strings he went through). The coin looks like it has suffered salt water corrosion, and if it had been there since Ming times I there would be anything left. It most I would say it was exposed to salt water for 150 years.

There are many ways it could have arrive long after the Ming period, but here are the three most likely :

1) Large numbers Chinese coins, some of which where this type, came over from China in the 19th century Chinese people who came over to work the gold mines. In Oregon that is the most likely answer and in that case it would have arrived after 1850.

2) Many more came over with Chinese workers who came over to build the rail ways in the 1870's to 1890's. Although I suspect gold miners is less likely.

3) Another possibility is that after these coins no longer circulated in China there were used as decorations on all types of goods made in China for export to the West. Chinese sewing baskets being the most common. Here is a page with images of two such baskets, probably made after 1900 with beads and coins on them :

http://www.chinesesewingbaskets.com/small_baskets/page_8.html

One of these baskets throw away into a river could put coins like this in that location as later as the 1950's (that much corrosion could occur that fast).

I have seen coins of this general period found in Yukon gold camp sites, British Columbia railway camp sites, and I once dug a 18th century one with a metal detector on the grounds of an old Bakery here in Calgary, along with coins from the 1920's.

Robert Kokotailo

 

[imafishingnutt]

one of his options can be ruled out it was not thrown in a river as there is no river flowing near this spot it was found nothing but a small fresh water creek flowing into the bay i could jump accross.