How the game was played....

[bigscoop]

.....First, you have to have a desperate country, say, like Spain, a country that can no longer support its territories by its own means. So what do they do, they open these territories up to American settlers with the notion that this influx of settlers will help to support the region in question through agriculture, manufacturing, labor, etc. All these settlers have to do is to take an oath stating they will follow Spanish policy and rule, and presto.....you get to come on in and settle in the region. Sounds good, the settlers are moving in by the groves, agriculture and labor is suddenly taking care of itself, manufacturing is even on the rise and the entire place is starting to become self-supportive. To this the Spanish pat themselves on the back, job well done.

But, not really. You see once this region is functioning and supporting itself this is when the danger slips through the cracks to start to takeover. It all begins with a very crafty opposing government, the kind of minds that understand how to play the corruption game. Now this government has already delegated the choir to a select agent, the type of guy who knows all the right people and in time he has already positioned them as new settlers within the newly settled and expanding region. Now it's the jobs of these men to play up to the Spanish, voicing their appreciation and continued support at every opportunity until they have gained the entire trust of the local Spanish authorities. But ah, it is at this point that these men start to voice a few grievances, nothing too large or complicated but just enough to be granted a public meeting with the Spanish authorities so these small, seemingly minute complaints can be heard and addressed. After all, no sense upsetting the boat since everyone is getting along so swell. The Spanish authorities agree to the meeting without hesitation.

From here the complaints are heard and addressed and settled rather easily in a friendly manner and because of the meeting's success it is suggested that routine meetings should be conducted and that a local panel of voices should be formed from within the settler's friendly participants. Spain says, "Sure! Wonderful! Things are advancing so swell!" But, guess who ends up composing the majority voice in this new panel of friendly settlers? Well, it ends up being all of the opposing government's main players and over time their superbly crafted complaints create a huge amount of friction between the settlers and the Spanish authority. Ultimately, as was the original design from the very beginning, these settlers are requesting that the opposing government step in to help address the situation, which it is all too well prepared to do. And thus the takeover begins without every having to fire a single shot. By now there are more settlers in the region then Spain can afford/attempt to control and the inner workings of the superbly crafted takeover has allowed for the manufacturing of a separate civilian governing body with a huge amount of support and resources. And the best part...until they were invited and requested to mediate the growing crisis the opposing government can simply claim that it had nothing to do with any of it, that they are just as surprised and as concerned with the issues as the Spanish. "Let's be friends. Let us help you settle this mess." Either way the opposing government wins, because if the Spanish refuse the help it will be seen under a most negative light by the riled up settlers, and if they say yes to the offer, well, they just invited the one element they don't need anymore help from.

Now then, did you know all of this is a matter of documented fact? Did you know that Madison and Monroe both used this "covert takeover policy/practice" while dealing with the Spanish in Florida and elsewhere? A lot of good reading dealing with this stuff and you wouldn't believe who all was involved, and why, and who some of them were related to. Just a lot of interesting and amazing history. Well worth exploring.

 

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[releventchair]

Beware Greeks bearing gifts! (Well sorta).

 

[bigscoop]

There were groups, or pods, of these little covert operations in place at several locations during the Madison and Monroe era. Problem was, not all of them were American inspired operations. New Orleans had several different and opposing cells in place, as did Richmond, South Carolina, Baltimore, Virginia, East & West Florida, etc. Some of them were designed to insight the populous but most of them were designed to create opposition and corruption within the various levels of governments and the controlling authorities.

 

[bigscoop]

And let's not forget the organized private concerns/interest that were actively trying to sway things in their favor. West Florida and the disputed territory in Texas were huge targets both politically and for private interest.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And let's not forget the organized private concerns/interest that were actively trying to sway things in their favor. West Florida and the disputed territory in Texas were huge targets both politically and for private interest.

DO tell MORE!

 

[bigscoop]

DO tell MORE!

Is there something specific you are curious about? Certain individuals? A certain segment? Perhaps a suspected group? As I said, there were many such groups in many locations. In some of these areas I'm pretty informed, in others just generally informed.

 

[bigscoop]

And since we're talking about how the games were played, here's an interesting fact for you to maul over. Did you know documents exist detailing how the US "didn't want" exact, clear boundaries attached to the Louisiana Purchase, something that was sort of negotiated with the French on purpose. You see, as long as the boundaries were unclear there was always room for favorable "future" political maneuvering. On the other hand, with exact and precise boundaries there was no wiggle room at all. So now the two obvious questions become, "To what future purpose did these unclear and inexact boundaries serve? And, why did we feel it was so important to make certain these unclear and inexact boundaries existed?"

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And since we're talking about how the games were played, here's an interesting fact for you to maul over. Did you know documents exist detailing how the US "didn't want" exact, clear boundaries attached to the Louisiana Purchase, something that was sort of negotiated with the French on purpose. You see, as long as the boundaries were unclear there was always room for favorable "future" political maneuvering. On the other hand, with exact and precise boundaries there was no wiggle room at all. So now the two obvious questions become, "To what future purpose did these unclear and inexact boundaries serve? And, why did we feel it was so important to make certain these unclear and inexact boundaries existed?"

PROBABLY has something to do with VP Aaron Burr's desire to be Emperor of American South West; NASTY time for TJ as Prez...

 

[bigscoop]

Monroe, Madison, Livingston, they were all informed to seek remedies that left the boundaries in question. West Florida was the biggest reason simply because Napoleon refused to include it, and there was also the desire to continue to find solutions for expanding the boundaries in the west. And there are actual letters/correspondences detailing this request. There is also at least one correspondence strongly suggesting to use whatever "reasonable" means necessary. But it gets even better.......

There is also evidence that details how Napoleon's two brothers, Joseph and Lucien, engaged in a rather heated argument with Napoleon over the sale of the Louisiana territory, both brothers threatening to switch sides on Napoleon if he sold it to the Americans. Weather they did or not isn't quite yet known.

But it is interesting that in a letter dated 1829 from James Monroe to Joseph Bonaparte and addressed to "Richmond", Monroe is utterly denying that he payed Joseph, Tallyrand, and others large sums of money for services rendered. We haven't yet located the earlier J. Bonaparte letter that prompted this reply from Monroe but it sure seems odd that Monroe was given good reason to deny having made such a payment to one of the very people he was suppose to have made one of the alleged payments to "during" the period of the Louisiana Purchase negotiations.

 

[bigscoop]

I always thought the boundaries of the Louisiana Purchase were set--------that being the drainage of all rivers and creeks into the Mississippi River if my history serves me right. That would be the watershed of the Mississippi. The French explored these areas in the early 18th Century setting their plaques at river crossings. But there was a dispute when it came to Spanish Territories such as the Arkansas River the northside was claimed by the US and the southside by the Spanish.

Try this on and see what you get. Spain cedes the territory in a prior secret treaty to the French, boundaries known and agreed to by both parties. Later, France sells this territory to the US with the stipulation that the boundaries are to remain uncertain. Now if I'm the French, and I see $$$ in my pocket by simply going along with the request, then I simply agree to sell the US the territory with boundaries that overlap the earlier agreement with Spain. I mean, it's absolutely no sweat of my nose and it becomes something that the US and Spain will have to settle. Thus, the American request is granted by the creating of a disputed territory. It's actually quite brilliant in a very corrupt sense of things. And now look who ends up out there at Camp d'Asile. Coincidence?

 

[lastleg]

bigscoop, there was another French colony in Texas at or near Dallas. I think is was called LeReunion or something similar.
I used to have the story (newsclips - Dallas Morning News. Frank X Tolbert ran a column on Texas towns and history back
in the 60s, maybe into the 70s.

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, there was another French colony in Texas at or near Dallas. I think is was called LeReunion or something similar.
I used to have the story (newsclips - Dallas Morning News. Frank X Tolbert ran a column on Texas towns and history back
in the 60s, maybe into the 70s.

It's get's pretty interesting when you see how deep the Bonapartes were able to dig into this country and how well connected they were to various members of the administration. Elizabeth Patterson Bonaparte, Jerome's wife, was a good friend of Dolly Madison and a constant figure at the White House. Joseph personally knew both Madison and Monroe and the political guest list at Joseph's estate reads like a who's-who's of the American powerful and influential. The Bonaparte's and the Lallemand's also spent a great deal of time in the Lynchburg/Bedford/Richmond area from around 1815 to around 1832. Ironically, Jefferson knew all of these people and he even wrote a letter of introduction for at least one Bonaparte to help them with contacts in France when they needed it most. Incidently, all of the people mentioned in the Beale Pamphlet spent time at the White House during the Madison/Monroe era and Edward Coles, who was there frequently during the Madison era was Dolly Madison's cousin. (Have yet to find record of a Robert "Morriss" having been there.) We do know that Lallmand's brother and another very influential exile spent time at the same spring house that Jefferson visited for a couple of weeks, but the date of their visit only list the year so we can't be sure they were there at the same time. And there is more, a whole lot more.

 

[bigscoop]

An Early was involved in Florida, a Campbell, and even a few other interesting names. Makes you wonder if any other familiar names might have ended up in Texas?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

An Early was involved in Florida, a Campbell, and even a few other interesting names. Makes you wonder if any other familiar names might have ended up in Texas?

LOL! Gen. Jubal Early lived in Lynchburg, Va. after the CONFEDERATE WAR; he was an attorney & "involved" with the "legal" aspects of the BEALE PAPER(S). He died and is buried here. INTERESTING stories about him in Lynchburg... LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! Gen. Jubal Early lived in Lynchburg, Va. after the CONFEDERATE WAR; he was an attorney & "involved" with the "legal" aspects of the BEALE PAPER(S). He died and is buried here. INTERESTING stories about him in Lynchburg... LOL!

lol.....yes, all that is known. But if I were to guess, I'd bet good money his pappy had kin of importance in the south. Try and focus on the dates of the deposits. I mean, the author is pretty clear when they took place.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

lol.....yes, all that is known. But if I were to guess, I'd bet good money his pappy had kin of importance in the south. Try and focus on the dates of the deposits. I mean, the author is pretty clear when they took place.

LOL! NAW... "the author"? WHO?

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! NAW... "the author"? WHO?

How come you locals don't know this stuff? Well, here's one example: (And you should research just how involved he was with the whole Florida thing.)

Peter Early - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rebel - KGC]

How come you locals don't know this stuff? Well, here's one example: (And you should research just how involved he was with the whole Florida thing.)

Peter Early - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LOL! Couldn't have been him... HE died in 1817. BEALE PAMPHLET (aka JOB PRINT, in Lynchburg, Va.) was "done" in 1885.

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! Couldn't have been him... HE died in 1817. BEALE PAMPHLET (aka JOB PRINT, in Lynchburg, Va.) was "done" in 1885.

No, no,....obviously not saying it was him. Was just pointing out that there were some close Bedford/Lynchburg area family ties involved in the whole Florida/Texas strategies. Thomas "Adams" Smith was a major player in Madison's Florida attempt, Peter Early was his "brother-in-law", a congressman, and later became the Gov of Georgia. His father in law was James White, founder of Knoxville and his wife's brother was Hugh Lawson White, another prominent figure in Tenn. Madison knew Early and Col. Campbell and so on and so on. All of this eventually leads to the Mr. Sherman in Galveston Island, one of the men who was in charge of distributing the gold to the indicated places "as promised". And I don't have to tell you how the name "Sherman" is attached to the Beale Pamphlet. "Mr. Hall" of Galveston also had very close ties to the same Virginia region.

"Between the months of November 1818 and February 1819 my commune had $476,000 put away." Where did it end up after Feb 1819? Why was it moved? What event took place in 1819 that effected the Texas venture? When was the first Beale deposit? The Adams Onis Treaty was ratified in 1821, when was the last Beale deposit and who was in charge of distributing the gold from Galveston Island in 1821 when Laffite left that place for good? And the biggest question of all, "who was really running the Texas show?"

 

[bonuntr]

Interesting read....I could do this all day. Too bad the games are still played in the same way...