I am still looking for an answer about discriminitaion.

[detectordave]

Ive asked this question before, and a few people seemed to be bothered by it. But I still wonder, if you "dig everything" why do we bother buying 1,000+ dollar machines? I own an XLT and DFX. I love them both. But why? If you dig everything, why not buy a 100 dollar machine and dig every beep? Why do we need an expensive machine with more discrimination and the most "bells and whistles"? In my family, my daughter has found our oldest coin to date, an 1848 large cent. She found it with a 99 dollar detector. All this said, I would not give up my detectors for <almost> anything. But I cant think of a good reason for the money that has been spent. When I asked this question before, a few people seemed bothered, I'm not sure why. I'm not insulting anyones machines, or intelligence. Especially since I do the exact same thing. lol. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Hh dave.

 

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[thompy]

i run almost no disc, but use a 2 tone set up, and use the tone and audio modulation and brain as my disc, not very often i check out the # id. but i certainly don't dig everything, if i did i would need to get a dumptruck

 

[Ant]

When they say everything they must mean solid and iffy coins sounds, and stay away from digging iron and nails without discriminating them out. That’s how I do it.

 

[TORRERO]

It's obvious that people do not dig "Everything" regaredless of what they say here...
there is not a literal conotation to that...
I use a DFX and somethimes I dig "Everything" and sometimes not...
but my "Everything" only encompases good metal signals such as foil and above and only in those places
where digging all these signals might benifit me...

No one except someone with limited experiance would dig all signals in a new trashy ballfield or picnic area....
not even logical....
if they do they are either new to the hobby (and they will learn fast) or they have an aufully sore back...

 

[mastereagle22]

Sometimes I will dig EVERY signal. It depends on where I am at. If I am at an old Farmhouse I dig EVERY repeatable signal. More than once an iron signal turned out to be something really good and by doing this I found a really neat old Whiskey token that I would have passed up if I was following the disc pattern.

The reason I like having the "Ability" to discriminate is that I can be very choosey of what I want to dig on a hutn where time is limited to less than a couple of hours.

But yes when I am in the dig everything mode that is exactly what I do. I have plenty of people who can tell you that on those occasions I don't get off the ground very much and I end up with sore knees and back! But sometimes the things you find hunting this way are real surprises.

My answer would be the main advantage to having discrimination ability is to hunt for targets that you really want to zone in on and ignore those you don't. I know several people that won't dig penny signals or nickel signals. they miss some good stuff that way. I usually dig everything but iron.

 

[detectordave]

Ok, maybe I wasn't completely clear. I think everyone knows better than to dig every foil signal in a place lined with BBQ pits. But, I took my wife's wedding rings and put them in a test garden this weekend. The signal on these white gold 14k, with stones rings, was very broken and I would not have dug them under normal circumstances. I don't put much stock in test gardens because so many of the signals are different from "real" ground . So....in a normal environment where you would be likely to have good targets and some trash. Most would agree to "dig everything" right? Now back to my question then. Why buy the expensive detectors? Again, I love my DFX/XLT. I only wonder if it REALY matters. Thanks again, Hh dave.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dave, others here have given good answers: Namely, that people who advocate "dig everything" are NOT, in reality, "digging everything", in the true sense of the word. At least, for example, they are passing iron. And they may be passing flitty surface foil, but still call that "digging everything", etc....

But you have to consider too, that a "$99 cheapie machine" is simply not hearing the same things that a $1000 machine is hearing, TO BEGIN WITH. Let me give you a real life example: A friend and I were night hunting a plowed field site, that is known to give up reales and other such period items. Since this was a "relicky" site, neither of us was discriminating out anything. You know, like foil, etc... and up was all dug, as this is the rule for relicky type sites. As such, you might conclude, in a site like this, in your logic: "why have a $1000 machine if you're going to dig all?". However, night after night, I kept spanking his 6000 Di pro with my Explorer. For every one good coin or button he would get, I'd get 2 or 3. As each night ended, he kept trying to understand why I was killing him on goodies. We would count out our targets (anything conductive), and our totals were about even. So not even I could understand why I kept coming in with the better items

Finally we figured out what was subconsciously happening! Since my Explorer has tone ID, I must've been subconsciously favoring clean nice 4-star round signals (copper slag, buttons, coins, etc...). So on the one hand, I didn't purposefully pass anything conductive, no matter how low and no matter how ratty. Yet on the other hand, when targets are abundant, your mind subconsciously tends to hone in on the better sounding ones. He on the other hand, with his 6000 Di pro, had no tone ID. And since it was at night, he was not able to see his needle bounces. The 6000 is more of a beep or don't beep sort of machine (less tell-tale audio than a more expensive machine like the Explorer). So the end result was, I was coming in with the better targets, while he spent much more time chasing .22 shells, tiny shards of foil, etc... However, if you had asked either of us, up till that time, if we were cherry picking at all, we would have each adamantly denied it. It was only a subconscious thing that the user of the more expensive machine can't help doing, when there are ample targets to choose from, and only limited time. Notice too in this illistration, that depth had nothing to do with it, since with plowed fields, old targets can be both deep and shallow, d/t mixing up with plows.

But like I say, in addition to more target info, I bet the more expensive machine simply hears more targets deeper, to begin with. No one, barring maybe the wide open clean beach, will hunt in true all-metal mode (where a user has no way to ID or pass iron). So essentially, everyone hunts in disc. mode. Once you do that, there are distinct differences that more expensive units offer.

 

[detectordave]

Finally we figured out what was subconsciously happening! Since my Explorer has tone ID, I must've been subconsciously favoring clean nice 4-star round signals (copper slag, buttons, coins, etc...). So on the one hand, I didn't purposefully pass anything conductive, no matter how low and no matter how ratty. Yet on the other hand, when targets are abundant, your mind subconsciously tends to hone in on the better sounding ones. He on the other hand, with his 6000 Di pro, had no tone ID. And since it was at night, he was not able to see his needle bounces. The 6000 is more of a beep or don't beep sort of machine (less tell-tale audio than a more expensive machine like the Explorer). So the end result was, I was coming in with the better targets, while he spent much more time chasing .22 shells, tiny shards of foil, etc... However, if you had asked either of us, up till that time, if we were cherry picking at all, we would have each adamantly denied it. It was only a subconscious thing that the user of the more expensive machine can't help doing, when there are ample targets to choose from, and only limited time. Notice too in this illistration, that depth had nothing to do with it, since with plowed fields, old targets can be both deep and shallow, d/t mixing up with plows.

But like I say, in addition to more target info, I bet the more expensive machine simply hears more targets deeper, to begin with. No one, barring maybe the wide open clean beach, will hunt in true all-metal mode (where a user has no way to ID or pass iron). So essentially, everyone hunts in disc. mode. Once you do that, there are distinct differences that more expensive units offer.

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Tone ID I can fully understand not being on a cheapie machine. That is a great example I did not think of. I use it every hunt. Also other options, a lighted screen versus a meter with a pointer. I like your example, but I wonder if that holds true most times. Both machines running on a "relic" type low disc mode. I wonder if the better machine would consistently win..Depth not being an issue. An example from me: my wife usually runs our XLT, she does not like the tone ID feature, I can understand some objects that I hear with the DFX tone ID, might not break the threshold on her machine being in a "coin" type mode. OK, maybe I am nearing a break through. lol. Thanks everyone for responses. Hh,dave.

 

[Silver Fox]

Ive asked this question before, and a few people seemed to be bothered by it. But I still wonder, if you "dig everything" why do we bother buying 1,000+ dollar machines? I own an XLT and DFX. I love them both. But why? If you dig everything, why not buy a 100 dollar machine and dig every beep? Why do we need an expensive machine with more discrimination and the most "bells and whistles"? In my family, my daughter has found our oldest coin to date, an 1848 large cent. She found it with a 99 dollar detector. All this said, I would not give up my detectors for <almost> anything. But I cant think of a good reason for the money that has been spent. When I asked this question before, a few people seemed bothered, I'm not sure why. I'm not insulting anyones machines, or intelligence. Especially since I do the exact same thing. lol. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Hh dave.

I'll read the replies after I post mine 'cause I don't want my thoughts diluted by others' POVs. I agree with you, somewhat. I've always been bothered with detectors that had so many (IMO) unnecessary features such as various programs, displays that one has to be an expert with a GPS to understand and wait while the various programs are cycled, etc.

I started with a basic detector that had just an intensity meter and DISC, ALL METALS, and TR. I never used TR even at the beach. DISC did save me having to deal with the tons of junk we find but I knew that while in that mode I was missing keepers. It was a trade off. But at least I could turn it and go and look at the knobs to see where I had set them and rarely needed to adjust them. My photos on various threads show that I was successful in finding lots of good stuff.

Then I "graduated" to a more feature-laden detector with an expanded meter and choices of modes so if I wanted to ignore everything up to dimes, I could, and then open a notch for nickels which would also result in some gold items. I could also do the opposite and ignore EVERYTHING but open a notch for a particular item. Once more, I realized that doing so restricted my finds but I was happy. Again, my photos show that I got "rich" which meant the detector paid for itself a couple of times over and I was healthier.

Then progress in detector technology resulted in analog meters being replaced by LCD displays and touchpads. And, worse, choices of detecting programs! Now, seriously, do you really want to restrict your detector to find just a group of things no one knowing what is in the ground! That seemed so silly to me. With a proper display it should be up to YOU to ignore or dig signals, not up to the detector.

When I returned to the hobby this past January I started with an analog detector but because it didn't have a depth gauge I sold it. Then I thought, hey, I want one of those VDI detectors as long as it also has coin icons to give me choices between icons and numbers. But the darn thing lost the settings when changing modes! I considered a MINELAB X-TERRA 70 but the display does not contain any icons and I'm just not going to become a numerical encyclopaedia.

So, finally, while I'm using a BOUNTY HUNTER LAND STAR 'cause it supplies me with all the detecting power and features I need in my limited detecting, I'm keeping my eyes on the FISHER F5 'cause it looks like it offers as much detecting features as one would want and it has a VDI display and knobs! A good marriage of analog and digital.

Silver Fox

 

[Silver Fox]

Ok, maybe I wasn't completely clear. I think everyone knows better than to dig every foil signal in a place lined with BBQ pits. But, I took my wife's wedding rings and put them in a test garden this weekend. The signal on these white gold 14k, with stones rings, was very broken and I would not have dug them under normal circumstances. I don't put much stock in test gardens because so many of the signals are different from "real" ground . So....in a normal environment where you would be likely to have good targets and some trash. Most would agree to "dig everything" right? Now back to my question then. Why buy the expensive detectors? Again, I love my DFX/XLT. I only wonder if it REALY matters. Thanks again, Hh dave.

I forgot to include the following true story so let me insert it here under your continuation to your OP.

Like I said in previous threads, my CoinComputer was feature laden and when hunting in NYC's Central Park I preferred to hunt in DISC with a notch for nickels/gold. One day while taking a lunch break enjoying a tube steak, I was approached by a not-necessarily-homeless-looking middle-aged man with a sack over his shoulder but I could see the coil sticking out of it. I recognized the coil as belonging to a cheap RADIO SHACK detector. He sat down and struck a conversation, eyeing my CoinComputer. We talked about what his detector could do and what mine could do. His did not have a DISC mode, only AM. I pointed out my detector's fabulous features such as being able to ignore coins up to the dime and he told me he was forced to dig every signal but he didn't want to get a sophisticated detector. Why? He reached into his pockets and produced a plethora of gold: gold rings and other jewelry and a few gold coins of various denominations including a $20!

I felt very humbled and when I finished lunch and started detecting I backed off on the DISC to just above foil but about a half hour later cranked the DISC up again and gave my digging hand a break! The park has millions of PTs, SCs, and every piece of junk discarded by millions for a lot of decades. And I found my share of them with that guy finding more than my share and YOUR share!

Silver Fox

 

[detectordave]

Wow, thanks Silver Fox for the reply. I like the part about YOU deciding what to dig , not the machine. I guess that's the basis of my observation. People read this and as soon as I say "dig everything" people freak out. Of course I <and others> don't mean literally EVERYTHING. I mean the signals you choose. If its a given not to dig iron, than when the cheapie says iron or the top of the line says iron don't dig. Other than that, if the idea is to not miss any good targets, does it really matter if my radio shack meter says nickel, or my million dollar machine has a picture of one on its LCD screen? I do understand disc, when I DONT want to dig. I completely understand saving time by blocking out nails in a certain area. Anyways, Thanks to all for the replies. I love having one example of the "big" machine winning and one of the "cheapie" winning in the replies. I would like to say I have found more than my share of quality items with my machines. I am not new to this and I have posted many awesome finds myself. Hh too all! dave.

 

[silverswede]

Great post and replies. It's hard to get a complete answer to your question tho' Dave as conditions vary so much from area to area and site to site. My sites are primarily hunting and fishing camps and my desired targets are coins, rings, and old cartridge casings, fishing lures. I have about a $700 detector and hunt with a 10" coil on full discrimination, threshold on silent. The reason is that I know that all the previous occupants of these sites had with them the items I'm looking for but also had canned food and bottled drinks, built large fires and melted the cans, foil, etc. plus left all the poptops, and caps as well as burying their garbage. I don't need most of the features on this detector but I can enjoy just turning it on and although I'm sure I leave a few nickles and possibly a ring I enjoy immensly the hunt and solitude and I have packed home thousands of coins and have a great old cartridge/headstamp collection. I think it's just about matching the tool to the job.

 

[detectordave]

I completely agree Silver. I too love the hunt. And conditions and people vary so much that it is difficult to get a definite answer. I only posted this because it struck me curious. I like all the replies, everyone definitely has good points. I do know what people mean by "dig everything" And I do know conditions vary as does terrain and just dumb luck. lol. I still ask myself why I need a certain machine while I'm hunting a certain spot. But, I would never give up my favorite one for anything. Hh too all. dave.

 

[ohiograndpa]

It may be the human nature thing.....If one is bigger, better, goes deeper, and costs more..I want one....
"Don't you"..oh yea, you bought two better ones right... LOL...You know how we are, gotta have what we perceive as the best..It's like a car..a Geo would get the job done, but MM,MM, that Cadillac sure looks better in your driveway. Very few people dig everything...........They just want a better detector..

 

[jimb]

You want discrimination to work in heavy trash areas. It is best to dig every target. A cheap MD will not go deep enough to find anything of intrest. Hence you need a big $ detector! I have a friend who sets his acer 300 just to find coins. However he does find rings with it that way.