I cant find the reference, but wasnt someone going to...

[Cubfan64]

I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

present convincing evidence that they had located the LDM on October 31? I thought it was Hal Croves, but when I searched under his name I found he had no posts - did he delete them all?

And THIS is the reason people don't put any faith whatsoever into claims of locating something until they see specific evidence

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Hal Croves]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

I am surprised by your post. My experience sharing information with this forum was something less then positive. I am aware that I got off to a bad start with Hal, but everything I posted was 100% accurate and honestly, I found some of the return posts to be insulting. Sometimes in life we are face with difficult choices. Delaying the magazine's release and removing the posts & youtube video was not something that I had planned on, however there is an explanation.

As it turns out, a small group of local "believers" put my theory to the test, and had some luck proofing one of the sites that I claim to have identified. Since you and others on this site will accept nothing less than proof in hand (gold samples), I made a deal with this group to delay the magazine, remove my posts & youtube video in exchange for access to the assay results, which I will have early next week. This is what you were all asking for, correct?

What I find difficult to understand is why so many intelligent people on this forum would rather engaging someone like BB, for so long when it is apparent that he holds most of you in contempt. BB is obviously an intelligent man, however the foundation of his theory is simply wrong, something I think he is aware of. The font type, the images on the stone all point to the 1800's, and when asked to explain this, BB replied with... " I don't have time to chase treasure". And if he indeed did send someone into the SWA as a joke, well, that is simply cruel.

I would be willing to give anyone the GPS# to one specific site in the SWA, that is both safe and easy to access, in exchange for the promise to.. 1.) Not go it alone, 2.) Leave a travel plan with a trusted friend or Park officials (they are there to help & work for YOU), 3.) Honestly share any results with this forum, & 4.) a small donation to local children's charity when you return from proofing the site.

Or you can wait to purchase the story in magazine format.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

I am surprised by your post. My experience sharing information with this forum was something less then positive. I am aware that I got off to a bad start with Hal, but everything I posted was 100% accurate and honestly, I found some of the return posts to be insulting. Sometimes in life we are face with difficult choices. Delaying the magazine's release and removing the posts & youtube video was not something that I had planned on, however there is an explanation.

As it turns out, a small group of local "believers" put my theory to the test, and had some luck proofing one of the sites that I claim to have identified. Since you and others on this site will accept nothing less than proof in hand (gold samples), I made a deal with this group to delay the magazine, remove my posts & youtube video in exchange for access to the assay results, which I will have early next week. This is what you were all asking for, correct?

What I find difficult to understand is why so many intelligent people on this forum would rather engaging someone like BB, for so long when it is apparent that he holds most of you in contempt. BB is obviously an intelligent man, however the foundation of his theory is simply wrong, something I think he is aware of. The font type, the images on the stone all point to the 1800's, and when asked to explain this, BB replied with... " I don't have time to chase treasure". And if he indeed did send someone into the SWA as a joke, well, that is simply cruel.

I would be willing to give anyone the GPS# to one specific site in the SWA, that is both safe and easy to access, in exchange for the promise to.. 1.) Not go it alone, 2.) Leave a travel plan with a trusted friend or Park officials (they are there to help & work for YOU), 3.) Honestly share any results with this forum, & 4.) a small donation to local children's charity when you return from proofing the site.

Or you can wait to purchase the story in magazine format.

I think you may have seen my post in a worse light than it was intended. I really DO tend to give the benefit of the doubt to just about everyone no matter what their theory is - even in those cases where I simply don't see the same things they do in photos, etc... In BB's case, I've had him on ignore for several months now, so eventually I do sometimes get to the point where I know any discussions on a given subject lead nowhere with certain people.

In your case, while I found some of the things you had to say interesting, I was really more or less in a "wait and see" mode based on your promise of putting everything out there on October 31 (I think?). When that didn't happen, and I discovered that all of what you had earlier posted was gone with no explanation, I was left to come to my own conclusions. In just the past 4 years of my being seriously interested in the LDM and the Superstitions in general, there have already been more than a handful of people who have made the same claims you have, but for one reason or another nothing substantial that can truly prove anything has ever surfaced.

The burden of proof is on the discoverer - not the audience or questioner. You left me no choice but to decide you theory was yet another that could not or would not be proven.

If I lived in the area, I would consider taking you up on your offer to visit your GPS coordinates, however I don't know if I truly would do it or not as the saying "once bitten twice shy" comes to my mind .

All this said, I certainly still wish you luck - you may very well have discovered something that others have not, but again, the burden of proof is on you.

Best of luck,

Sincerely, Paul

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

Paul,
Thank you for the reply. How about this, we obviously live within a few hours of each other. Sometime next week, when I am sent the assay results, I will contact you and invite you to my home to see for yourself, the evidence that I have. If you are convinced, and I believe that you will be, the two of us will make plans to hop a flight to AZ, and put this legend to rest. We are permitted to travel into the SWA with a maximum group of 15 people... so you are welcome to invite whomever you trust from this forum. The DLM is a 4 mile hike from the trailhead, but the trail is extremely dangerous... this is where the term "rats nest" came from. One slip in the wrong place and you are trapped. There are however conditions to this offer.
1. No fire arms.
2. We travel in small, sub-groups of three, and pledge to stay together.
3. If I am correct, and we are able to uncover the shaft, everyone in the group gets time in the mine for photo's, but we ALL agree to take only needed ore samples for Park officials.
4. One medical professional, EMT or similar should be included.
5. Any compensation/credit derived from the discovery will be shared equally, by EVERYONE in the group... even if a group member fails to reach the site.
6. NO PHOTOs of any remains (human) that may be found. I think the families have suffered enough.

These terms are quite fair. Joe R., if you are reading this... you are near the top of my list of people to invite, so oil up those boots!
Let me know.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

Paul,
Thank you for the reply. How about this, we obviously live within a few hours of each other. Sometime next week, when I am sent the assay results, I will contact you and invite you to my home to see for yourself, the evidence that I have. If you are convinced, and I believe that you will be, the two of us will make plans to hop a flight to AZ, and put this legend to rest. We are permitted to travel into the SWA with a maximum group of 15 people... so you are welcome to invite whomever you trust from this forum. The DLM is a 4 mile hike from the trailhead, but the trail is extremely dangerous... this is where the term "rats nest" came from. One slip in the wrong place and you are trapped. There are however conditions to this offer.
1. No fire arms.
2. We travel in small, sub-groups of three, and pledge to stay together.
3. If I am correct, and we are able to uncover the shaft, everyone in the group gets time in the mine for photo's, but we ALL agree to take only needed ore samples for Park officials.
4. One medical professional, EMT or similar should be included.
5. Any compensation/credit derived from the discovery will be shared equally, by EVERYONE in the group... even if a group member fails to reach the site.
6. NO PHOTOs of any remains (human) that may be found. I think the families have suffered enough.

These terms are quite fair. Joe R., if you are reading this... you are near the top of my list of people to invite, so oil up those boots!
Let me know.

While the offer is generous, I'm not in a very good position right now to say yes or no.

I would first want to get you know better on a personal basis for a start. After that, it would be a matter of sorting out details and feeling comfortable with the overall process - none of those things can be done quickly. The idea of a 15 person party all agreeing on the parameters, then abiding by them and most importantly trusting each other is a HUGE hurdle to cross imho.

I'm more than happy to stay in touch concerning some of the things you bring up and the idea of being involved, but from my end at least, it would not be a quick process. Feel free to PM me and we can talk.

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

BB,
Intelligence in this case is over rated. I took some time to sort through the various posts that you have written, and it is clear that you are a brilliant man. In fact, being somewhat of an idiot myself, I wish that I had even a small percentage of your knowledge base. But I know that with intelligence, comes responsibility. I am not much with words, but the dynamic is something like the relationship between father and child. A good fathers is a mentor, one who feels compelled to impart his wisdom and knowledge, but he does so in a nurturing way. It is my guess that you are someone who has difficulty with your genius, and that socially, you perhaps struggle. I know several people who are considered genius, and remarkably, they all wrestle with their identity socially... it must be a defensive mechanism.

But that defensive mechanism is also a trap that over time appears more and more difficult to escape, until ultimately is defines who you are. We all get a little power crazy when we obtain knowledge that is not shared by others. I can tell you from experience that the only escape is to humble yourself and to use your knowledge to help and educate others.

Now, regarding your dating of the "Peralta" stones (and I would not get too use to calling them that), several weeks ago I asked you to provide just one sample of a visual, in this case the figure with the conical, brimmed hat holding a hammer, and a type face similar to the "1847" carved into the stone... from the period of 1600's. Your response was something like "I don't have time to chase treasure". So here I am asking for your help once again. Please tell me where to find these things in the historical record.. I have tried and failed. However, when you advance to the 1800's, both are easily found.

I believe that the "?" stones were carved in 1847, but that a parchment map from the 1680(?+-) was used to locate the Peralta, actually the correct description would be the Apache mines. They (the stones) have survived the elements, which is what they were designed to do... simply genius.

Here is something else that everyone should be aware of. The Department of the Interior is aware of the mineral wealth in the SWA, which is why the area was designated a wilderness area. If you believe that it was done to protect flora and fauna, then just look at the growing list of endangered species in the park, and what about the fact that 80% of visitors are using only 15-20% of the established trail system. Is that successful management? When the DOI mapped (defined) the wilderness area, they made a critical mistake, and missed many of the mines. That is all I am willing to say at this point.

I am sorry to hear about your family member, and wish both of you well.
Hal

 

[Springfield]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

Paul,
Thank you for the reply. How about this, we obviously live within a few hours of each other. Sometime next week, when I am sent the assay results, I will contact you and invite you to my home to see for yourself, the evidence that I have. If you are convinced, and I believe that you will be, the two of us will make plans to hop a flight to AZ, and put this legend to rest. We are permitted to travel into the SWA with a maximum group of 15 people... so you are welcome to invite whomever you trust from this forum. The DLM is a 4 mile hike from the trailhead, but the trail is extremely dangerous... this is where the term "rats nest" came from. One slip in the wrong place and you are trapped. There are however conditions to this offer.
1. No fire arms.
2. We travel in small, sub-groups of three, and pledge to stay together.
3. If I am correct, and we are able to uncover the shaft, everyone in the group gets time in the mine for photo's, but we ALL agree to take only needed ore samples for Park officials.
4. One medical professional, EMT or similar should be included.
5. Any compensation/credit derived from the discovery will be shared equally, by EVERYONE in the group... even if a group member fails to reach the site.
6. NO PHOTOs of any remains (human) that may be found. I think the families have suffered enough.

These terms are quite fair. Joe R., if you are reading this... you are near the top of my list of people to invite, so oil up those boots!
Let me know.

This plan sounds like a Chinese fire drill. In the first place, why do you feel that picking 15 people from an internet forum, this one in particular, will yield you a harmonius crew that will help you achieve your goals? By the way, exactly what are your goals?

From what I can tell from your posts, you don't need a small army of wide-eyed yahoos racing into the hills. You need a trusted group of three or four experienced people who have already worked out the extent of their legal and financial expectations and liabilities from such a snipe hunt. If the group has enough acknowledged integrity between them, a handshake agreement is fine; if not, a contract is advised. The team needs to have a tight plan and the ability to keep their mouths shut. Garnering such a group based on the posts from this forum seems a little, uh, risky to me.

The people on the team need to be experienced current mountaineers or equivilent. At least one (two is better) needs to be an experienced miner, caver or someone knowledgable with conditions surrounding old mines and how to safely enter and exit same. The travel plan and schedule needs to be agreed on ahead of time and details left with a confederate outside the mountains (not the park officials, imo), along with a communication link to the outside (preferably ham radio, or at least cell phone or family radio) that is tested and verified. You may have a disdain for firearms, but experienced back country explorers, especially in these hills, will probably have a different opinion.

Handeled professionally, an old concealed mining operation located at your target coordinates should be able to be quietly and safely found and documented. If such a thing exists, your biggest task will be to prove it's the LDM (if the LDM truly existed at all) and not just another old mine from the days of yore, of which there seems to have been many in central Arizona.

The plan quickly and loosely outlined in the few paragraphs above would be structured as a serious discovery mission by qualified personnel. From what you've been posting, it seems to me that your plan seems to favor a bunch of arm-waving publicity magnets intent on drawing attention to a movie, magazine, book, more forum nonsense, etc.

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

The invitation was extended to Paul, and since he seems to have the respect and trust of several intelligent people on this forum, I simply offered to include him & anyone of his choice. 15 is the maximum group number set by the DOI, but you are correct that it may be problematic. Perhaps those who want to join in will put aside their egos and differences for a common goal, that being truth. I was asked what my "goal" is, in making this offer. My goal is to demonstrate, once and for all that the SWA is mineral bearing, something officials have looked me in the eyes and told me was not so. I could do this with my own crew, and will on my next trip into the SWA, however a few extra people would be welcomed. Why?.. quite honestly, I believe that no good thing ever came from any one man. When I return, it will be with a film permit in hand, with the cooporation of DOI... and perhaps with a few new friends. I doubt that anyone will follow unless they are shown compelling proof, which I believe that I have. What do I want out of this? The chance to capture the DLM on film, and the satisfaction of putting an end to the lies that have generated so much tragedy.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

oK Bb why does . E=M(S/L)5th ? S & L are effectively the same thing, just different variable frequencies, and with a wide spectrum of separation. Why not any of the other in between frequencies, or combinations ?

Clarify.

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

Good morning B&B.

'All matter' descends / ascends from the original frequency which is presumed to be one, but with no acceptable time reference. From there we go up to the fantastically high ones and their harmonics, sub harmonics and the infinite multiples of them.

Does light have the same speed in all mediums? Does it always travel in a straight line? If there is a variable, then it cannot be used as a constant except in the broadest terms.

Sound is notorious for being extremely variable , so by combining two variables you are playing with an effectively unreliable base.

So, to excuse the expression, I am not sold on your theory overturning Einstein's which I also have cast a jaundiced eye at due to the work of some brilliant researchers..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Furness]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

BB the problem with your equation is that you lack knowledge of the simple basics of physics,
whilst you may be good at maths your not a genius, good maybe, but definitely not a genius,

you asked how light accelerated to the speed it travels at,
then afterwards saying it must be sound that converted once it reached a certain speed,, if you knew anything about physics you would have already known this instead of having to ask the question,
that and the rest of my post is basic knowledge to even a first year student,

the photons that make up light are born in the nucleus of an atomic particle surrounded by what is called the electron shell and this distance is infinitesimally small, so small it cannot be measured so is classed as zero distance, when it exits through the electron shell it is already travelling at the speed of light, it does not accelerate, it is born at the speed of light,
it is not sound that changes into light, light has nothing to do with sound even at the sub atomic level,
so your expression S/L cannot work,

the speed of light is determined by the photon itself, nor does it have other sub particles attached to it as you state, it is a sub atomic particle in its own right, it is the lightest sub atomic particle known and has almost no mass,
it can be thought of as a capacitor and holds an electrical potential, and it is that potential that determines how fast light travels, if that potential could be reduced by 10% light would travel 50,000 times faster,

and before you ask BB the math was done by someone a lot cleverer than you and published in 1972, by a theoretical mathematician who worked at an atomic energy physics laboratory in the US, although i can't remember which one there are quite a few, i remember reading it at that time as it was part of his work on FTL travel,

sound was mentioned last year when you posted that you had solved Einsteins wave theory,
how it was generated and the fact it could not travel in a vacum was patiently explained to you by more than one person over a number of posts, what part of that didn't you understand,

sound is not a moving wave of particles travelling outwards, it is generated by molecules vibrating and bumping into
each other when moved by a diaphragm, sound is the result of the molecules as each bumps into the one next to it before stopping and then the next one bumps and stops until the sound we hear is the last bump when it hits our ear drum, it is an effect not a cause, and sound cannot travel in a vacum as was explained to you,

in the atmosphere it travels at about 650 mph, it can travel faster than that through a denser material because the atoms making up that material are closer together, it does so under water, and even faster through a solid, but not in a vacum, molecules in space are to far apart to bump into each other and make what is called sound, it's estimated that there is approximately 1 atom per square kilometre in outer space,
so your S cannot work,

that is why you can see a lightning flash and have to wait for the thunderclap to follow a few seconds later, (diffrent speeds) light and sound cannot travel at the same speed nor form any type of cohesive bond to make a wave,

harmonics are a result of the change in pitch at the edge of a note or sound and are classed as even or odd order and are a multiple of the frequency of the note we hear, harmonics are what our ears use to identify which type of instrument is playing the note,

normal sound for an adult with perfect hearing is 20 to 20,000 cycles with the odd few people being able to hear up to about 23,000 cycles ( and we can detect the 2nd to 7th harmonics's) most cannot hear below or above that frequency, but sound can go much higher and can be heard by animals and effect what we hear in various ways due to interaction at those higher or lower levels, in music odd order harmonics are heard as distortion and canceled out in an amplifier by using feedback in varying amounts,

white noise is nothing more than electrical sound generated in a circuit when electrons ( the electrical energy) traveling through the circuit reacting with the material making up the diffrent components in the circuit and mixing like soup, diffrent components making diffrent electrical noise, a carbon resistor makes a diffrent noise to a copper resistor, because it has a higher magnetic inductance,
and the noise is amplified by a radio or amplifier through a speaker,
without amplification white noise cannot be heard, its a name given to what used to be called mush in the early days of radio before accurate measurements were able to be taken of equipment and the noise filtered out, it's also the background noise from the entire universe which is at a lower level, made up of the outpouring of magnetic and electrical energy from the stars,

also inverse and opposite, inverse means the same as opposite, it is just a diffrent words to describe it, so you cannot have an inverse opposite, it cancels itself out,

you say, the same binary sequence, without saying what that binary sequence is, and putting the maths on here to go with it,
that means nothing until you put it here and explain why,

all binary wether it is code or anything else is just a way of expressing a string of numbers or letters in 0's and 1's, it can be used for any maths covering anything you can apply maths to which is pretty much everything in the universe, it's not some magic formula that you seem to have made it, it was invented by man and applied by man to the things you talk about, including the binary sequence you seem to think of as the holy grail,
the computer you are reading this on uses that same binary to process all the information you see on screen, and there are diffrent binary codes for diffrent things, so which one are you referring to,,

you wrote that Einstein says that S and L are the same thing and that is where he is wrong,
Einstein never said that,
his E = MC squared has nothing to do with S that's something you have bought into the Equation, and has nothing to do with Einsteins Equations,

but it is what you used last year when you were telling everyone that you had solved his wave theory, you stated they travelled together in space right up to the speed of light,

in fact there is nothing about sound in either of his Equations, neither his wave theory nor his theory of relativity, the expression S is only in your equation,

and nothing i have written above is anything higher than the most basic physics for a 1st year uni student, not at the higher level yet a great deal you did not know nor have you understood, this brings into doubt anything you write on this subject,

Hello Jose

i have also read quite a bit recently by a number of theorists and mathematicians that cast doubt on parts of Einsteins equations, there are many questions Einstein has not answered, and a great deal not proven,
many other theories that have been proven should not work if all of his theory of relativity is correct, but the discrepancies appear to be ignored by most of the mainstream establishment,

John

 

[somehiker]

Re: I can't find the reference, but wasn't someone going to...

Thanks John....for the physics theory and theorum.
Remember BB.......in a more practical sense,"In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream"

Except yourself,of course.