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[Cosmo]

Recent creek finds Illinois. Big one 6 inches. 3 inches smaller one . Thanks

 

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[rock]

I call then tools. Knife type of scraping tools. That 6 inch one is nice

 

[painterx7]

Cool tools or preforms or large bifaces awesome finds !!

 

[Cosmo]

That's what I thought the big one was a preform.

 

[GatorBoy]

That's a real nice example of a pre form... large percussion "thinning" flakes without the final finish work.
A lot of times people see small flakes removed around the edges of pieces like that and immediately think they are finished tools which isn't always the case a lot of times removing small flakes is necessary to raise an edge to create a platform for striking and removing another thinning flake.
Nice finds

 

[RestoringYourFinds]

Beautiful pieces !!!!!!!!

Congrats on your finds !!!

 

[ptsofnc]

very nice finds!

 

[rock]

That's what I thought the big one was a preform.

90% of the scrapers I find have that wavy style flaking on the edges with no secondary flaking. I believe they are full tools we don't know everything

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm willing to bet a good majority of the pieces you're calling scrapers were discarded and never finished or just reduction flakes to begin with.
Not trying to pick at you.. Just saying a lot of people for some reason have the tendency to think everything is a complete tool when reality is there's loads more scrap from making one complete piece then there is finished tools out there

 

[NC field hunter]

I'm willing to bet a good majority of the pieces you're calling scrapers were discarded and never finished or just reduction flakes to begin with. Not trying to pick at you.. Just saying a lot of people for some reason have the tendency to think everything is a complete tool when reality is there's loads more scrap from making one complete piece then there is finished tools out there

Gator, Rock has done his homework. When he says "wavy edge" I suppose utilized is a better word selection. You know I love you brother! However, I have to credit Rock on his hard work. I know I'm in rhyolite country, but I think utilized edges on any lithic pretty well indicates job functionality. If natives salvaged this little piece



I have to think flakes were more often than not used, if for only a one time job.

 

[GatorBoy]

Then I have to question if you've ever watched any amount of knapping done.
There's a mountain of flakes underneath someone making a single bi face.
There's also a lot of edge work done to set up an edge for further thinning.. of said bi face.. The results of that is many of the flakes removed will have what looks like edge work.. Which technically it is but it was not for creating a tool out of that particular flake
I'm not looking to argue I realize rock has done a lot of homework I also remember him making entire frames out of flakes.
"Wavy" does not equal utilized.

 

[NC field hunter]

Then I have to question if you've ever watched any amount of knapping done. There's a mountain of flakes underneath someone making a single bi face. There's also a lot of edge work done to set up an edge for further thinning.. of said bi face.. The results of that is many of the flakes removed will have what looks like edge work.. Which technically it is but it was not for creating a tool out of that particular flake I'm not looking to argue I realize rock has done a lot of homework I also remember him making entire frames out of flakes. "Wavy" does not equal utilized.

On all four edges? Let's say its a square flake. I'm not arguing either. Just talk/ debate views.

 

[southfork]

There's no way to say for certain if a flake was utilized for an expedient tool . But there still artifacts if altered by man I only bring home and display tools that leave no doubt . I do save a few flakes and cores of special material to study .

 

[NC field hunter]

I call this a flake. No uniform flaking on the edges. If the "wavy" edges are uniformed, I call those scrapers.

 

[ncnurseryman]

Rusty, so you are calling the piece shown in your palm a flake. I always thought that the flakes would be the smaller piece that were knapped off of the larger portion. I also would think of that piece as a crude tool that was useful but had no need for refinement. I'm not sure though.

 

[NC field hunter]

Rusty, so you are calling the piece shown in your palm a flake. I always thought that the flakes would be the smaller piece that were knapped off of the larger portion. I also would think of that piece as a crude tool that was useful but had no need for refinement. I'm not sure though.

We are walking all over this fellas thread. The original poster has a beautiful preform. I'll keep this short original poster! Paul, yes I consider my pic. A flake. It was picked up at a quarry site. I know where a quarry is and would be happy to take you there. I think flakes as well as scrapers can be misunderstood, that is, until you see a quarry or a well used knapping ground. It all falls together once you walk that quarry site. I'll try starting a thread on scrapers and how they differ from flakes. It should be fun. Original poster, sorry to snake your thread once again!!

 

[GatorBoy]

You're right my apologies to the original poster.. just want to point out you'll understand the quarry site better when you understand knapping better... I found that out myself.

 

[ncnurseryman]

Sorry, Cosmo. Didn't mean to stomp on you.

Rusty. Pm sent.

 

[painterx7]

Not trying to barge in on your post but here are some examples that will help the first is a preform with base started second is a preform with some polish from scraping or it's a adze Celt or hoe that was broke but givin the flaking style prob not a hoe . Hope this helps

 

[Cosmo]

No one was out of line. I appreciate everyones opinions right or wrong. I'm very thankful to have this forum it's a tremendous resource as well as great entertainment.