I need help identifying if this a M1917 Helmet.

[Doughboy]

So I found this online, the only markings it has been said to have are the markings of ZE29. I'm new to the helmet world so I have no idea what that means.

 

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[Doughboy]

It's a US made WWI helmet aka M1917 helmet, the ZE proves that. See below post, where I have a lot of Information on these helmets.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/militaria-arms/288546-m1917-helmet.html

The ZE29 is the heat stamp marking for that particular batch of helmets.

Known Heat-Stamp Markings of WWI American M1917 Helmets:
(This list is based on what I have actually seen, more heat stamps might be out there)

UC
W? ?
XH
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC
ZD
ZE
ZF
ZG
ZH
ZJ
ZL ?
ZM ?
ZN

Oh and my apologies.....Welcome to the forums, if you find or aquire additional helmets let me know and I'll help you ID them. I have about 20 helmets in my collection.

Hey it's been a while. Thank you for the help awhile ago. Though i have found a helmet, though its marking is not of any you have listed. Says MLB on it. Any idea what that could be?

 

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[NOLA_Ken]

Hey it's been a while. Thank you for the help awhile ago. Though i have found a helmet, though its marking is not of any you have listed. Says MLB on it. Any idea what that could be?

Are you sure it's "MLB" could the B be an S possibly? I can't find MLB on the list but there is an MLS which is Miris Steel Co Ltd of London 1916 - 1917. If it's definitely a B I'll have to look for other lists of makers

 

[Retired Sarge]

At the time I wrote my original list many years ago MLS was listed as an unknown British WWI helmet manufacturer. Link to my original posting on manufactures and their codes.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/militaria-arms/288546-m1917-helmet.html

Known steel suppliers of the WWI British helmets:

FS = T. Firth & Sons Ltd Sept 1916 – 1918
BS = W. Beardmore & Co Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
HS = Hadfield Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
V = Vickers Ltd 1916 – 1917
MS = Miris Steel Co. Ltd 1916 – 1917
A = Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd 1916 – 1918
F = Thomas Firth and Sons 1916 – 1918
O = Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. 1916 – 1918
B = Bury's & Co. 1916 – 1918

Known makers of the WWI British helmets:

D = James Dixon & Sons Dec. 1915
HW = Hutton & Sons Dec. 1915
HH = Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. Dec. 1915
M = J&J Maxfield & sons Dec. 1915
R = John Round & Sons 1916
V = W&E Viener Dec. 1915
MLS = ?
FKS = Possibly Thomas Firth & Son
M&S = Possibly Maxfield & Sons.

Known makers of the WWII British helmets:

BMB = Briggs Motor Bodies Ltd of Dagenham
F&L = Fisher & Ludlow Ltd of Birmingham
GSW DP & H = General Steel Wares Department of Pensions & Health
HELMETS LTD = Helmets Ltd of Weathhampstead
RO&Co = Rubery Owen Co Ltd of Leeds (Spelled as RO CO or RO&CO)
WD = William Dobson & Son of Birmingham
PPM = Patent Pulp Manufacturing Co Ltd (Updated)
JSS = Joseph Sankey & Sons

 

[Retired Sarge]

Are you sure it's "MLB" could the B be an S possibly? I can't find MLB on the list but there is an MLS which is Miris Steel Co Ltd of London 1916 - 1917. If it's definitely a B I'll have to look for other lists of makers

I have MS listed as Miris Steel Co. Ltd 1916 – 1917 as a known Steel supplier, and MLS as an unknown helmet manufacturer. Do you have something that confirms MLS and MS are the same company so I can update my list.

All my previous research turned up 2 or 3 possible companies for MLS to include Miris but nothing in concrete. So I've always left it as unknown....

I need to set aside some time, and go through my list and update it. Seems the list is being shared on a lot of web sites now. Which is great as it gets the information out there.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Hey it's been a while. Thank you for the help awhile ago. Though i have found a helmet, though its marking is not of any you have listed. Says MLB on it. Any idea what that could be?

Take some talc or baby power and rub it into the stamping to see it better. Also post some pictures of the entire helmet. It will allow us to ID it as a WWI or WWII helmet. This will help to narrow down the manufacturer.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I got that MLS is Miris also from an English forum, the poster there seems to have a pretty comprehensive list https://www.treasurebunker.com/foru...-ww1-and-ww2-brodie-helmets-and-maker-stamps/

 

[Doughboy]

i dont know, I think i see the M and L

 

[Retired Sarge]

View attachment 1875329 View attachment 1875329 i dont know, I think i see the M and L View attachment 1875331

Here's another MLS marked helmet, you can see the how the S is like yours in shape, but better marked. So a British made Mk 1 helmet (Aka Brodie helmet), that based on the artwork, we can ASSUME it was sent to the US and used by American forces during WWI, before we started making the US version of the helmet (M1917).

With the British made ones it hard to know if it was British used or American used. Plus with the artwork it's hard to know when it was put on it. Most if not all was done postwar with it being done after the Armistice but still over there, on the ships coming home, or at home (Immediately after arriving or years down the road for reunions).

Regardless it's a cool helmet, that I would have no issues displaying in my collection.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I got that MLS is Miris also from an English forum, the poster there seems to have a pretty comprehensive list https://www.treasurebunker.com/foru...-ww1-and-ww2-brodie-helmets-and-maker-stamps/

A lot more information has come out since I started my list in or around 2005. I need to take time and update it and do some more research. A lot of the lists out there, are either a direct copy of my original list, or a copy with updated information added.

Thank you for the link.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Your helmet is definitely British made, the maker mark confirms that, but there is an easy way to tell without having to look up the maker if you're just seeing it in an antique store or sale which is that the bail the chinstrap attaches to is held on with a split pin, the American 1917 helmets used a solid rivet which held up better through the wear and tear of war. American helmets used thicker steel too and are a bit heavier.

The paint is definitely post war, you wouldn't want to wear a target like that with snipers looking for you. The 7th Division was apparently only on the front line for a month before war's end, but did see a bit of action and that makes me think the paint could have been done by a veteran who brought it home as a souvenir, but it's really hard to say for sure. But if someone wanted to fake a paint job I'd think, based of the ones I've seen, that they would choose a unit that saw a lot more serious action to make it more desirable.

All in all a cool old helmet!

 

[Doughboy]

Okay so I figured it was British just needed confirmation. Though I do know British helmets had asbestos in some of them. like for the felt cloth. Is there anyway to tell if they have asbestos in them? and if so anyway to get rid of it?

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Okay so I figured it was British just needed confirmation. Though I do know British helmets had asbestos in some of them. like for the felt cloth. Is there anyway to tell if they have asbestos in them? and if so anyway to get rid of it?

The asbestos will be a whiteish pad between the felt and the steel shell. If you're just going to display it and not wear it or mess with it too much, unless the felt pad is in bad shape and crumbling I'd just leave it alone. You can soak it with hairspray to make it more stable. If you want to remove it, take it outside and dampen it a bit to keep any fibers from being airborne and just carefully scrape it off. I know someone will object, but you can just dig a hole a couple feet deep and bury it.

 

[tamrock]

I've got my dear old grandpa's WWI helmet. I do miss him and cherish the stories of trench warfare from his time in France. Tough times in his generation going through a brutal war and surviving a great depression. Does make me think before I do much bickering about how things really are for me. He was definitely a keep your chin up and take no crap kinda guy.

 

[Doughboy]

I do believe the pad is visible from within the pictures I sent. I still haven't purchased the helmet because of my concern for the asbestos. I'm not sure what the pad is in terms of condition in those pictures.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I do believe the pad is visible from within the pictures I sent. I still haven't purchased the helmet because of my concern for the asbestos. I'm not sure what the pad is in terms of condition in those pictures.

the felt is visible, and looks pretty moth eaten. The asbestos pad between the felt and the shell isn't visible though.

Let me preface this by saying I've been in residential construction and renovation for thirty years, and I've run across a lot of asbestos in that time...... Asbestos is 100% harmless if it's enclosed and you just leave it alone and don't mess with it. The danger comes when people mess with it and stir up the fibers into the air, or it gets old and starts to crumble. The small amount in a helmet isn't going to be shedding fibers into the air in your home unless you tear it open. The best thing to do with it would be to just spray some hairspray on the felt. That will bind the felt and any stray asbestos fibers together and pretty much eliminate any danger of it escaping. It's not going to hurt anything being displayed on a shelf. You could remove it, but the liner looks pretty fragile and you risk ruining it in the process.