Intelligent Conversation

[bigscoop]

And this really is my last thought on this subject, maybe it will sink in?

As a responsible society were are responsible for the things we do and say, and especially where and when we say them. We want to believe that the people who are listening are all rational, stable people, but unfortunately many of them are not. In private circles were rest fairly assured of this rational, stable behavior and reasoning. However, when we are speaking or acting within the general public we have no idea who may be listening and watching. Take this forum, for example, it is suppose to be a “family friendly” website, however, there is a great deal of conversation that goes on here that is not family friendly. Sex, politics, firearms, propaganda, dissention, etc., so let us define, “family friendly.” The mods do a great job mediating these issues but the actual term, “family friendly” should never allow even the birth of these conversations. This is a public, unrestricted, family friendly forum, and there is no way to ascertain who may be watching and reading this site’s contents. Crispin is correct when he states that he doesn’t want his children to be exposed to these things without guidance, and yet……??

It goes without saying that the internet allows access to just about anything and everything these days, however, when you say, “family friendly” then it should be maintained at a level where parents can feel comfortable with all of the site’s contents, not just most of it. I think Tnet is a great website, but I also think it could be much better and a lot more family friendly. I have no idea how the very controversial topics of gun control, possible government corruption, mass shootings, etc., are related to treasure hunting? And yet it is all here on this family friendly site, for anyone to watch, read, and absorb. Why? And here rest a big part of the problem within our society that is at the very heart of the many issues being debated and discussed. This isn’t a slam on Tnet, just an observation and an example of the failures in our society that keep coming back to bite us in the rear. If we say, “family friendly” then it should be family friendly. I feel I am a rational adult, but I wouldn’t want my young children coming and reading a lot of the content here.

 

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[packerbacker]

I guess we had better get rid of every single video game on earth then..................unless there is one where you compete to see how many people you can hug.
How come I was exposed to drills at school where they told me an atom bomb may go off so I better stay away from windows and hide under my desk? We better do away with fire drills too 'cause they may traumatize a kiddie or two.
I'm sure the same kids that would surf this site, unsupervised, also saw the tv headlines in the living room. Kids need more exposure so they can make intelligent, rational decisions as adults .

 

[releventchair]

Crispin, your age is not a factor to me. Multi generational input should always be involved in problem solving.
Bill your input valued too. We are neighbors. Change is inevitable and after decades of visits north of the border it shows. Our laws affect each other and we have alot of ties.
Misuse of firearms would in theory be reduced by reduction of them. Keeping them out of those who would commit crimes is critical, though other weapons would be chosen based on effectiveness. For the enterprising criminals other sources would be located for arms and the simple types as well as gunpowder can be built. Even the understandable desire to reduce numbers of victims in individual attacks does not address the constant individual events that are caused by the same human mechanism.
We are in the same boat as our rampaging brothers,are we their keepers?How do we restore civility? My guess would be to start at the bottom,with support from the top.
We seem to be avoiding dealing with peoples problems at both ends and it is not working. In the home or in institutions.

 

[bigscoop]

I guess we had better get rid of every single video game on earth then..................unless there is one where you compete to see how many people you can hug.
How come I was exposed to drills at school where they told me an atom bomb may go off so I better stay away from windows and hide under my desk? We better do away with fire drills too 'cause they may traumatize a kiddie or two.
I'm sure the same kids that would surf this site, unsupervised, also saw the tv headlines in the living room. Kids need more exposure so they can make intelligent, rational decisions as adults .

You're still missing the point. This is a "promoted"..."family friendly"...."treasure hunting" website, with active policies in place, i.e., "when it relates to treasure hunting." How is this post, and many, many other controversial post like this, "related to treasure hunting?" The policies are clearly in place, and yet....? This is the failure. As the Tnet society become larger and harder to police the liberties are thus allowed to expand and grow until it arrives at a point where they must absolutely be addressed, but these corrections seldom happen before the damage has already been done and the society has already changed. Fire drills are good things. Bomb threat prep is also a good thing. Anita-government and anti-authority sentiment is not necessarily a good thing, open discussions using graphic and questionable details and personal opinions is not necessarily family friendly content or a good thing. And, how do any of these topics relate to treasure hunting? This is the point.

 

[civil_war22]

Crispin the main point I tried showing the children when I worked in the schools as a officer was that the point of having a gun wasn't to have it to use on someone unless your life was in immediate danger. I always pressed the issue when one would try to touch my gun that its not a toy. I asked the counselor to gather up the kids and we would have a assembly on guns. I spoke to them about firearm safety and how to react if they saw someone come to school with a gun. I think all children need to know that firearms have many purposes. Like hunting, personal protection, and collecting. My children were raised like I was. I got my first gun by the time I was 7 and was always taught whether a gun is actually loaded or not its still to be treated as if it is loaded and to never use it unless you believe your life is in immediate danger. I believe the kids that have done these violent crimes were never taught firearms ethics by their parents. In which case they were probably never payed much attention to in the first place and given the love and support every child deserves.

 

[bigscoop]

Crispin the main point I tried showing the children when I worked in the schools as a officer was that the point of having a gun wasn't to have it to use on someone unless your life was in immediate danger. I always pressed the issue when one would try to touch my gun that its not a toy. I asked the counselor to gather up the kids and we would have a assembly on guns. I spoke to them about firearm safety and how to react if they saw someone come to school with a gun. I think all children need to know that firearms have many purposes. Like hunting, personal protection, and collecting. My children were raised like I was. I got my first gun by the time I was 7 and was always taught whether a gun is actually loaded or not its still to be treated as if it is loaded and to never use it unless you believe your life is in immediate danger. I believe the kids that have done these violent crimes were never taught firearms ethics by their parents. In which case they were probably never payed much attention to in the first place and given the love and support every child deserves.

Civilwar22, I appriciate your position and effort. However, when giving these presentations, what level of personal knowledge, i.e. mental stability, ect., did you possess about the individual children in those classrooms and the families they came from? I feel fortunate that I was able to introduce guns to my sons, but only at various ages based on their individual ability to understand the responsibility that goes with it. For my older son it was much earlier then with my younger son. For this reason, and others, there is no way schools should be introducing guns to students. As a father, I would be irate to learn that my child's school permitted such a thing. Where i went to school, with three race riots in four years, it would have been the last thing you would have wanted to do. During those three violent race riots, not a single gun.

 

[civil_war22]

Bigscoop where I live is a town of 600 or so people and I was raised here my whole life. I know every family here and personally greet every new family who comes in. I have background and training in recognizing mental disorders/stresses and child development. I live in a town where just about every household owns a firearm and uses them during various stages of the year for recreation or hunting. I not only spoke about gun safety but handed out gun locks, had the missing nod exploited children reps come down to do the children's fingerprints and gave out little safety books and plastic badges to children. The parents were excited as almost all showed up for it. They spoke highly of the presentation and how they were excited to see a police presence at and around the school. Plus they enjoyed the BBQ we had for all.

 

[packerbacker]

Yes, it is a Treasure Hunting site but, as is all of society, people discuss things other than what the main reason for coming together was. I agree totally with the no politics, no religion policy. Those are, and always will be, controversial subjects and arguments almost always arise. This section of the site is called "Everything Else". I don't think a child that is "freely" surfing the net would stop and get involved in reading the posts here. If they are 6 or 7 years old, how much would they understand and, if they were 13 or 14, it's time they get exposed to what is happening around them. That's how the village raises the child. What could be more "family friendly" than that? Unlike real life, how many people on this forum do you think would treat a child poorly, harm them in any way or even cuss in front of them. VERY FEW IF ANY! No matter the political views, religious views, thoughts about gun control etc., etc., these are all basically good people with varying convictions on many subjects. I don't believe there is one of us that wouldn't take a cold and hungry child into our homes and protect them. Crispin's home or Cash's, wouldn't make any difference to the child. They would be safe.

 

[Red James Cash]

Bigscoop do you let your kids play in the dirt?

 

[johnsquest68]

This is my personal view on this matter.

most of my family are gun owners, law enforcement , military or just law abiding gun owners. I am a firm believer in the right to bear arms and all of us are NRA Life members. It would be a very good thing to have armed security in schools in this day and age, to prevent tragedies like what happened in Newtown. As far as assault weapons, the average gun owner does not need them. The simple fact of the matter is that Gun ownership is NOT the problem. It is who OWNS them, street thugs and other criminals that are out on the street are NOT responsible gun owners. And they should not be confused with a properly trained , licensed owners with registered weapons. Being able to defend yourself and/ or your family in a time of crisis would be lost if gun control takes effect.
I personally would be very afraid to live in a country where only criminals and law enforcement agencies had weapons. that is how Dictatorships are born!

 

[Crispin]

PackerBacker: I am glad to see you participating in this discussion. From previous threads I felt that you had some good opinions. "This guy writes a note that he wants to burn down his neighborhood and you don't want to talk mental illness?" I never said I do not want to talk about mental illness. I said, that unless you have an MD behind your name I do not want it to be apart of the discussion. I am happy to answer any questions on mental illness.

 

[Crispin]

BigScoop: I hope you continue to contribute to this discussion. I find your opinions to be intelligent and well thought out. I value them.

 

[Crispin]

RelevantChair: Great post. I like what you had to say. "We are in the same boat as our rampaging brothers,are we their keepers?" This is my counter, quoted from Marlon Brando, "If we are not our brother's keeper, let us at least not be his executioner."

 

[Crispin]

CivilWar: I remember having DARE officers in the classroom when I was a child. They had a profound effect on me and I am glad they were there. The difference here is that they were there to educate about drugs. I think officers should always be armed in schools (assuming they normally are,) anything else would be a misrepresentation. I think the point BigScoop was making was that we do not want our children to be educated about hot topic issues by teachers. As previously discussed, RamDiesel agrees. Also, it might be interesting for you to read Ammon's post about Dunbar's law. Things work differently in a 600 person community then they do in a few hundred thousand community.

 

[Crispin]

Just for fun...after analyzing previous posts throughout this website I have determined a formula to never be wrong in opinion discussions. Follow the recipe below:
1. Wait for somebody to post an opinated statement; then respond stating their opinion does not support the facts.
2. Make a counterpoint by calling them foolish, silly, ignorant, or other similiar concepts.
3. When they respond, counterattack with vehemence that it makes them drop the discussion entirely.
4. End result: you will always have the last word; and thus, feel validated that your unarguable, undeniable opinion is absolute truth.

Regards,
Crispin

 

[packerbacker]

Well, there goes that secret out the window!!...............................

 

[bigscoop]

Bigscoop do you let your kids play in the dirt?

My kids have backpacked mountains, kayaked raging wilderness rivers, traveled many countries...some of them very dangerous, hunted and fished all over the country, and not once have they ever been in trouble with the law. My youngest son now escorts youth groups to many of these same sketchy countries. Both of my sons are fully capable of taking very good care of themselves and those around them, and have had to on more then one occasion, and neither of them carry a gun. I quit kick boxing with them when I turned 40 because it was really starting to hurt. Both still open doors for people and treat people with respect. My oldest son has also seen more acts of violence and blood and guts then most, and on a daily basis for several years he routinely helped to save lives, and would so again today in a heartbeat. The worst he'll admit that he ever faced was having to put a badly burned 8 year old boy in a body bag. Red, once again your extreme personality has allowed you to leap over a fence into the real world "of other people" that you never consider and know absolutely nothing about.

 

[Red James Cash]

My kids have backpacked mountains, kayaked raging wilderness rivers, traveled many countries...some of them very dangerous, hunted and fished all over the country, and not once have they ever been in trouble with the law. My youngest son now escorts youth groups to many of these same sketchy countries. Both of my sons are fully capable of taking very good care of themselves and those around them, and have had to on more then one occasion, and neither of them carry a gun. I quit kick boxing with them when I turned 40 because it was really starting to hurt. Both still open doors for people and treat people with respect. My oldest son has also seen more acts of violence and blood and guts then most, and on a daily basis for several years he routinely helped to save lives, and would so again today in a heartbeat. The worst he'll admit that he ever faced was having to put a badly burned 8 year old boy in a body bag. Red, once again your extreme personality has allowed you to leap over a fence into the real world "of other people" that you never consider and know absolutely nothing about.

Once again bigscoop you assume and throw and cast assumptions out there about me from a simple little question that i asked you about whether or not you let your kids or use to let them play in the dirt.What i asked you went way over your head about what i was getting at.Look at it this way,if kids dont play in dirt their immune systems suffer because of it.They fail to build up tolerances in that system.The same thing could be said about moral issues,moral development.Now lets see you tell me what i dont know anything about,because you yourself are blinded by your own little world scoop.You know nothing about me whatsoever.You only assume you know

 

[Terry Soloman]

We don't have no plastic L.A. friends,
Ain't on the edge of no popular trend.
Ain't never seen the inside of that magazine GQ.
We don't care if you 're a lawyer, or a texas oil man,
Or some waitress busting ass in some liquor stand.
If you got Soul We hang out with people just like you

My hair's turning white,
My neck's always been red,
My collar's still blue,
We've always been here
Just trying to sing the truth to you.
Guess you could say
We've always been,
Red, White, and Blue Oh

Ride our own bikes To Sturgis
We pay our own dues,
Smoking camels, drinking domestic BREWS
You want to know where I have been
Just look at my hands
Yeah, I've driven by the White House,
Spent some time in jail.
Momma cried but she still wouldn't pay my bail.
I ain't been no angel,
But even God, he understands. Yeah

My hair's turning white,
My neck's always been red,
My collar's still blue,
We've always been here
Just trying to sing the truth to you.
Guess you could say
We've always been,
Red, White, and Blue

Yeah that's right!

My Daddy worked hard, and so have I,
Paid our taxes and gave our lives
To serve this great country
So what are they complaining about
Yeah we love our families, we love our kids
You know it is love that makes us all so rich
That's where were at,
If they don't like it they can just
GET THE HELL OUT!

Yeah!

My hair's turning white,
My neck's always been red,
My collar's still blue,
We've always been here
Just trying to sing the truth to you.

My hair's turning white,
My neck's always been red,
My collar's still blue,
We've always been here
Just trying to sing the truth to you.
Guess you could say
We've always been,
Red, White, and Blue
Oh..oh..Red, White, and Blue....

You know... You know...

Red, White, and Blue. YEAHH.
Oh..oh....Red, White, and Blue

 

[releventchair]

Caution,skin thickness may vary. C,mon guys we,re getting off topic and worse insulting each other,its a worthwhile thread.