Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[azdave35]

That's a good illustration of why mom n' pop mining and exploration died in the US back in the 1970s or so. Whatever mining remains in North America is high volume-low value large corporate surface operations. That's why all the high-grade underground action shifted to Mexico and South America - they're "mining friendly", as they say. Plus there's still a lot of ore to be found down there. There's still a few stalwarts stubborn enough to keep trying it in the US - like azdave35's pal. However, unless you have killer ore, it's pretty much a fool's errand nowadays, although a small guy can do OK with Alaskan placer if he wants to go remote. I know an old guy who has a decent-sized native silver discovery located on FS land in the Burro Mountains a few miles south of Silver City - requiring only surface trenching, mind you - that he gave up on because of the red tape and uncertainty. The game has mostly ended.

actually there are alot more people than you think still mining...at least in arizona

 

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[markmar]

Well , here is a picture of the mountain where is the LDM , including and another mines . This picture is a cropping of a bigger one , but the distance in the cropped picture could be considered at about 3,5 miles .
Some of the characteristics are the " window rock " close to the top and the many " small valleys " .

 

[sdcfia]

actually there are alot more people than you think still mining...at least in arizona

That's good to hear - more power to them. I sure had a lot of fun in that game.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

cactusjumper,

Thank you for posting the Gustav Cox 1882 map you mentioned in an earlier post, very much appreciated.

When I look closely at that map and compare it to the modern topo map that I posted of my route to the Pit Mine/Silver Chief, and also compare it to Jack Carlson's topo map of the Pit Mine/Silver Chief, it is clear that all three maps show the Silver Chief in exactly the same place. Jack's topo map and the Cox 1882 map put the Silver Chief in the same place. Jack did not change his location of the Silver Chief from his Superstition Wilderness Trails East book, his modern topo map shows it in the same place as the Cox map. There is no doubt about it.
I highlighted the canyons on the Cox map and on the modern topo map to illustrate that Cox's map and the modern topo are showing the same location.

lastly, Jack's topo map shows the World Beater Mine exactly two mining claims to the southeast of the Silver Chief.
Gustav Cox's 1882 map shows the World Beater claim exactly two mining claims southeast of the Silver Chief.

I don't have any reason to want the Pit Mine to be the Silver Chief or not. It just turns out that it is.

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

Thank you for posting the Gustav Cox 1882 map you mentioned in an earlier post, very much appreciated.

When I look closely at that map and compare it to the modern topo map that I posted of my route to the Pit Mine/Silver Chief, and also compare it to Jack Carlson's topo map of the Pit Mine/Silver Chief, it is clear that all three maps show the Silver Chief in exactly the same place. Jack's topo map and the Cox 1882 map put the Silver Chief in the same place. Jack did not change his location of the Silver Chief from his Superstition Wilderness Trails East book, his modern topo map shows it in the same place as the Cox map. There is no doubt about it.
I highlighted the canyons on the Cox map and on the modern topo map to illustrate that Cox's map and the modern topo are showing the same location.

lastly, Jack's topo map shows the World Beater Mine exactly two mining claims to the southeast of the Silver Chief.
Gustav Cox's 1882 map shows the World Beater claim exactly two mining claims southeast of the Silver Chief.

I don't have any reason to want the Pit Mine to be the Silver Chief or not. It just turns out that it is.

View attachment 1324140 View attachment 1324141

View attachment 1324142

Matthew,

Yes, I'm sure you're correct.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Cliffy]

What......... I'm going blind....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SDC, how would you clasify this assay report ? State assay. Jales are tailings. A good possible Mom & Pop?

 

[azdave35]

SDC, how would you clasify this assay report ? State assay. Jales are tailings. A good possible Mom & Pop?

View attachment 1324177

real...its hard to read...is it in ounce per ton or grams per ton?

 

[sdcfia]

SDC, how would you clasify this assay report ? State assay. Jales are tailings. A good possible Mom & Pop?

View attachment 1324177

Yeah, I can't read it either. Besides, I wouldn't offer much of an opinion on an assay unless I did the sampling, or was given the drill cores.

 

[azdave35]

Yeah, I can't read it either. Besides, I wouldn't offer much of an opinion on an assay unless I did the sampling, or was given the drill cores.

from what i can read it looks like nice numbers,,,lol

 

[sdcfia]

from what i can read it looks like nice numbers,,,lol

I'm guessing those results show ppm (g/t). If so, the gold seems to be running an ounce per ton, more or less. If this was core drill results blocking out ten million tons of free-milling ore with no overburden, boy, you'd have a beauty of a mine. If it was samples of cobbled ore, who knows what you'd have?

 

[azdave35]

I'm guessing those results show ppm (g/t). If so, the gold seems to be running an ounce per ton, more or less. If this was core drill results blocking out ten million tons of free-milling ore with no overburden, boy, you'd have a beauty of a mine. If it was samples of cobbled ore, who knows what you'd have?

ppm (parts per million) and gpt (grams per ton) are totally different...they usually only use ppm when assaying liquids such as water or leach solutions....an xrf analyzer will give ppm on ore and you just convert it to opt

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen, those are the figures of a Sonora state geologist, and Mexican assays 'are in ppm' . It is only 38 acres, not miillions.but located in the flatlands 50 meters from a state maintained, paved road with paralell High power lines, plus approx 50 miles on a paved road to a large city.

Title is up to date with all taxes paid and no liens or agreements with any one.

A nice litle Mom / Pop hard rock mine, with no timbering needed. In general Vein is approx 12 ft wide.

200 meters of blocked out ore

Left click on the assay repott to enlarge it through Treasurenet.

 

[azdave35]

Gentlemen, those are the figures of a Sonora state geologist, and Mexican assays 'are in ppm' . It is only 38 acres, not miillions.but located in the flatlands 50 meters from a state maintained, paved road with paralell High power lines, plus approx 50 miles on a paved road to a large city.

Title is up to date with all taxes paid and no liens or agreements with any one.

A nice litle Mom / Pop hard rock mine, with no timbering needed. In general Vein is approx 12 ft wide.

200 meters of blocked out ore

Right click on the asay repott to enlarge it through Treasurenet.

when do we start?....lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

"The Silver Chief is another mine of this company. It has a shaft of 40 feet another of 70 feet and a tunnel connecting below of 230 feet, ore is splendid the assay value is said to be from $60 to $1,300 ton. It is generally a carbonate and there is also galena. A drift 18 feet long which from the bottom of the shaft shows 2 feet of very rich metal is in white quartz. The Silver Chief looks better now than has done before."

Does this sound like what we have shown of the Pit Mine?

I recently received a book which I don't remember ordering. Did you have anything to do with that? If so, many thanks as I am enjoying reading it.

Very nice post. You always do your homework.

Take care,

Joe

Last part first, no the book did not come from me, which proves you have many friends and now will have to guess which one sent the gift!

The first part, yes it does to me, especially when you consider that description you are citing, was written in 1884, long before the mine was abandoned. I have been looking for a later description as I have seen one which is very close to what has been described as the Pit mine. I have an earlier description as well, which only states that it looks "promising" and "much work" is being done, with no explanation about what work they were starting to do. Like most mining camps, work proceeded in fits and starts, with stops and gaps too. The main pit shaft is now well over 100 feet deep, and Waltz's mine was not supposed to be more than a dozen feet deep at most. This would mean either someone else found it and mined out a LOT of ore, or they are not one and the same. But what would I know, I have never even visited the Pit mine or Silver Chief. As it is, I only get a limited amount of time to spend in AZ per year, and have other things to spend it on, than a rather difficult hike to try to make a point in an internet discussion. Besides, what ever I might say, would not be believed unless it is backed up by a published source.

EarnieP wrote

Never assume statute of limitations have expired, prosecutors may think differently.
The ongoing possession of a few souvenir nuggets, matchbox, or ring of illegally mined ore could constitute a Continuing Offense that delays the commencement of the Statute of Limitations.
Just a thought

What crimes are you accusing these miners of having committed? Removing rock? Did you witness any illegal activities? I did not. We have NO idea who or whom left behind the junk etc. Let us not start making accusations okay? What is it really that you wish them to be punished for? Would you like someone to be trying to make legal troubles for you, if you had some success treasure hunting? Can you see why treasure hunters don't want to talk about their successes, when there are people that just want to make trouble for them?

I have some relevant tidbits on this topic, don't have the time to post them tonight and not intended to prove or disprove anything, just interesting for anyone that may have an interest in the Rogers/Randolph district and the Silver Chief mine.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies & Gentlemen, I appologize for seemingly trying to take the subject off of ' The pit mine' i was only trying to show that Mom / Pop mines do exist, and prob in the superstitions, despite the agency stateing that no commercially viable mineral deposits are in te area/

 

[sdcfia]

ppm (parts per million) and gpt (grams per ton) are totally different...they usually only use ppm when assaying liquids such as water or leach solutions....an xrf analyzer will give ppm on ore and you just convert it to opt

Look at the paper entitled "Fire Assay Technical Note 2012', page one, last line: The concentration is normally expressed as parts per million (ppm), which is equivalent to grams per tonne (g/t). Search Results - ALS

Now, this is the metric tonne conversion that assayers use, not a short ton calculation - actually about a 9% difference. This difference is essentially ignored by mining folks because of sampling error, tonnage estimates on the ore body, estimated recovery, and many, many other factors used to decide the value of a potential mineable deposit. Besides, it gives the mine a bit of a better-sounding ore than it really has, which promoters like. It's a good indicator of course, but when you see "ppm", you can read it as "g/t", then do your American ounce/ton conversion. These guys aren't selling gold, just a reasonable hope of recovering some.

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo's and Amigo-ettes,, One thing I want you to be aware of is the information that travels from assays, many assayers share information on assays, corporations and groups and individuals have been buying info for years on your assays, most cases they will get the info before you do, If you take good material in to have it assayed,and if the assay shows its really good, you can bet other people are aware of it before you are. Money talks, nothing is sacred. np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Your too pessimistic SDC, I always under calculated it a certain percentage to cover any errors in mine / mill assays for estimation of adjusting the PH balance for the flux forulae and to balance the flow of materiel. However, in one case I started cyaniding for a certain no of hrs, I started with 3 grams , after a certain time I was getting around 2.5 grams recovery then if I extended the time, the gold went back into solution so that if I continued I would pull out 3 grams then put it back into soluton so I started with 3 grams and ended up with 3 gram tailings, no effective gain, zero In fact when I tested the older tailings I found an area that assayed 11 grams of Gld, I wanted to rerun that section but the mine was sold to another before I could. The ore contianed a natural Cyanicide whic was slower in getting into solution, but after it did, It scavaged the Oro

You have to trust your assays to run a mill and mine properly

Incidentally I received a low order dosage Cyanide poisioning which sensitized me to Cynide, I can readily smell an open drum up to 50 meters. Won many bets.


No like inicator in your post NP, but onsider it done

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo's and Amigo-ettes,, One thing I want you to be aware of is the information that travels from assays, many assayers share information on assays, corporations and groups and individuals have been buying info for years on your assays, most cases they will get the info before you do, If you take good material in to have it assayed,and if the assay shows its really good, you can bet other people are aware of it before you are. Money talks, nothing is sacred. np

OK I will try again, dont know why there's no like button.