Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Ol' Kentuck]

Yeah.....good to see you Kentuck.....

View attachment 1674225

Thank Ye, L.C., jest dropped in fer a quickie.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[sdcfia]

Thank Ye, L.C., jest dropped in fer a quickie.

View attachment 1674226

Glad there's finally a fun-loving party animal in the house.

 

[Kace]

Back To The BB.

According to JJ3....

Captain Harrison Trow, saying he was from Gov. Crittenden's office shows up to identify the body as that of JWJ.

JJ3 says Harrison Trow was really JWJ in disguise and an alias JWJ used and that he didn't exist before that day.

Kace

I posted this earlier from the book. It's been repeated in other books and YouTube videos... The one that SD posted has been on YouTube for awhile and has had quite a few views.

Pertaining to Captain Harrison Trow...None of it is true according to multiple official records. The Only Truthful part of the story is that He Did Live and Die in Texas After The War.

Harrison Trow did Did Exist prior to and after the shooting in St. Joseph, MO.

I do have Trow's Full Records from Birth to Death, Grandparents, Parents, Siblings, Wife and Children.

Trow did ride with Quantrill on Occasion With Frank and Jesse W. James and is listed on Quantrill's roster.

I haven't read all of the book Kentuck put up for us yet.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

"I haven't read all of the book Kentuck put up for us yet."

It is second-hand information from the get-go. It has the truth in it......but not the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Kind of like The History of Nebraska" by J.S. Morton.

L.C.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

"I haven't read all of the book Kentuck put up for us yet."

It is second-hand information from the get-go. It has the truth in it......but not the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Kind of like The History of Nebraska" by J.S. Morton.

L.C.

The book was a biography written by Trow's son-in-law, J.P. Burch, in Trow's very elderly days and is mostly Trow's recollections (aided and filled in by the son-in-law, I suspect, with excerpts from John Newman Edwards' essays). Taking that into consideration, it's a combination of foggy first hand truths and embellished fiction, no doubt about 'er. I don't figger there was any outright attempt by Trow, or the author, to lie or be subversive though. It's just faulty memory and trying to fill in the blank spots with what was considered at the time to be a credible work. I kinda have a hard time getting past how the author didn't know how to spell his subjects name (Quantrill) right, though.

Trow is an interesting study. Supposedly ran away from home at 9 years old and went to work for a 'Mr. Hudsbath/Hudspeth' in Independence, where he remained until the beginning of the Civil War. Where have I heard that name before??


edited to add...

Excuse me getting off topic Kace, but have your tombstone wandering walk-abouts ever taken you to Hudspeth Cemetery in Independence?

 

[Kace]

The book was a biography written by Trow's son-in-law, J.P. Burch, in Trow's very elderly days and is mostly Trow's recollections (aided and filled in by the son-in-law, I suspect, with excerpts from John Newman Edwards' essays). Taking that into consideration, it's a combination of foggy first hand truths and embellished fiction, no doubt about 'er. I don't figger there was any outright attempt by Trow, or the author, to lie or be subversive though. It's just faulty memory and trying to fill in the blank spots with what was considered at the time to be a credible work. I kinda have a hard time getting past how the author didn't know how to spell his subjects name (Quantrill) right, though.

Trow is an interesting study. Supposedly ran away from home at 9 years old and went to work for a 'Mr. Hudsbath/Hudspeth' in Independence, where he remained until the beginning of the Civil War. Where have I heard that name before??


edited to add...

Excuse me getting off topic Kace, but have your tombstone wandering walk-abouts ever taken you to Hudspeth Cemetery in Independence?

Yes, I've been to the one in Independence, Jackson County,MO off Blue Mills and the one in Rushville, Buchanan County, MO

You've heard that name from the Chiles, Enyart's,Cowherd and Hudspeth discussions on here I think.

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Yep, that's where I heard it. And I figgered you had visited those cemeteries, notice anything unusual there?

 

[Kace]

Yep, that's where I heard it. And I figgered you had visited those cemeteries, notice anything unusual there?

You'll have to be more specific...

It's Very Close to Lake City

Kace

Now I'm curious on what you were asking about unusual at that graveyard? lol!

I'm happy I'm not looking at Cass photos whenever I log on though!

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Just curious, thats all. Sorry ta get off topic.

 

[Kace]

Just curious, thats all. Sorry ta get off topic.

Okay...What did I miss? It's small, some broken stones, walled off on private property. Overall not in bad shape the last time I was there.

There's maybe 5-7 other names besides Hudspeth buried there.

Spill The Beans Kentuck! lol!

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

No beans, they gas me up somethin fierce. Wasn't anythin important, might come back to it later as ye get farther along on Trow.

Did ye have somethin ye wanted to lay out about him?

 

[Kace]

No beans, they gas me up somethin fierce. Wasn't anythin important, might come back to it later as ye get farther along on Trow.

Did ye have somethin ye wanted to lay out about him?

Are you talking about JR Hudspeth being one to identify JWJ's body?

Most were with Quantrill at times.

Yes, I'll lay out Trow's background and after the war, since it seems that Trow is being perceived by some to just be one of JWJ's aliases.

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Nah, weren't that. I'll wait ta see what ye got on Trow, sounds interesting. Yer right, he was a real person in his own right, and not just an alias.

Makes ye wonder why someone would pick a feller so easily traceable, don't it.

I'd also like ta see the primary source for the claim that he was ever an "Aide fer Crittenden".

 

[Kace]

Nah, weren't that. I'll wait ta see what ye got on Trow, sounds interesting. Yer right, he was a real person in his own right, and not just an alias.

Makes ye wonder why someone would pick a feller so easily traceable, don't it.

I'd also like ta see the primary source for the claim that he was ever an "Aide fer Crittenden".

A couple things...I'm jumping ahead a bit but your comments I think warrant that with Trow...I hope nobody minds and it will be a little bit of a heads up before we get there.

It did really make me wonder Why JJ3 would pick someone like that who is so traceable...even in '75 with all the Quantrill reunions and rosters if nothing else. You've showed early letters from JJ3.

Same with Senator William Andrews Clark who's Very Traceable. But the reader or listener is led to believe on both that they are just aliases?? Never existed and have no past before JWJ?? That Dan guy on Carter's show seems smarter than that. Unless he's trying to set up a 'BB 2 Mystery Solved' type of book by saying these things online.

Kentuck...I've never found Anything prior to Howks tales where Capt.Harrison Trow was an aid to Crittenden. I've heard it repeated from books and videos following the BB, but I can't find anything before.

Another thing being stated as fact that's already been mentioned is that Frank and Jesse James were 33rd° Masons. I don't know if you are a Mason, but the Masons on here and those I've talked to say No, they weren't. I did do some checking on my own and I can't find anything saying they were recognized as Masons. Where I checked has all records of Masons even if lodges obviously wouldn't want to claim them.

The book (JJ3) and some videos say that since JWJ was a 33° Mason and Gov. TTC was a 32nd° Mason that TTC had to do what JWJ said since he was 33rd°...which is how and why the fake death was planned, executed and the Ford's being pardoned.

Kace

Edit: I've watched a lot of videos on the BB and the part I said that according to JJ3 since JWJ was a 33rd° Mason and Telling Crittenden a 32° Mason how his faked assassination was going to happen might have come from Epperson and not the BB. I'll have to look again.

Edit:2...I haven't looked at the BB again for the Masonic information, but it's on Epperson's conspiracy video. He's also a an anti-Masonic guy who is now focused on the BB and JWJ for those who don't know and has written a book about it.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

A couple things...I'm jumping ahead a bit but your comments I think warrant that with Trow...I hope nobody minds and it will be a little bit of a heads up before we get there.

It did really make me wonder Why JJ3 would pick someone like that who is so traceable...even in '75 with all the Quantrill reunions and rosters if nothing else. You've showed early letters from JJ3.

Same with Senator William Andrews Clark who's Very Traceable. But the reader or listener is led to believe on both that they are just aliases?? Never existed and have no past before JWJ?? That Dan guy on Carter's show seems smarter than that. Unless he's trying to set up a 'BB 2 Mystery Solved' type of book by saying these things online.

Kentuck...I've never found Anything prior to Howks tales where Capt.Harrison Trow was an aid to Crittenden. I've heard it repeated from books and videos following the BB, but I can't find anything before.

Another thing being stated as fact that's already been mentioned is that Frank and Jesse James were 33rd° Masons. I don't know if you are a Mason, but the Masons on here and those I've talked to say No, they weren't. I did do some checking on my own and I can't find anything saying they were recognized as Masons. Where I checked has all records of Masons even if lodges obviously wouldn't want to claim them.

The book (JJ3) and some videos say that since JWJ was a 33° Mason and Gov. TTC was a 32nd° Mason that TTC had to do what JWJ said since he was 33rd°...which is how and why the fake death was planned, executed and the Ford's being pardoned.

Kace

I reckon I could have a easier time swallerin Howk's Trow alias if'n that were Trow in Jesse's coffin instead of tha nonexistent Bigelow feller, and he jest assumed Trow's identity somehow. But fer tha life of me I can't see how he coulda got rid of Clark and done tha same. And o'course that would hafta mean their spouses and any friends an relatives woulda had ta be in on it too. Nah, even I can't make it stretch that far.

I'm of a mind that ol' Howk jest took bits and pieces from all the books, dime novels, and newspaper stories he researched, an all the letters he wrote diggin fer information, and mixed 'em all up into a conspiracy stew. Sounds like another feller I know from Texas.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ha! WHO...?

 

[Kace]

In February of 2018 the video SD posted for us to watch was put on YouTube for anyone to see...The supposed premise of the video as Dan L. mentioned was to confirm or denounce events and characters in the BB and it did start out that way, I thought he would be doing like we are and taking each person and topic and through research doing what he said he was going to do in that video. I agree with his intro and I believe most people would regarding the CW.

Dan told Carter the way he went about researching the BB was to take each event and person in order of appearance in the book and research as he went along. Made Sense To Me.

I do not know the guy at all, he looked normal, seemed to have a normal home from what can be seen and the interview between him and Carter started off shockingly normal. It didn't last long though before he got to talking about Captain Harrison Trow who JJ3 had claimed in the BB was an alias JWJ had concocted who was to be an aide to Gov. TT Crittenden which coincides with where we are in the book.

In the video he says Trow has No Past At All...Nothing, Just An Alias That Was Created on April 3rd, 1882...The day of the shooting. He did say that JWJ kept the Alias of Capt.Trow alive and that it was killed off in Hereford, Texas.

Captain Harrison Trow Was A Real Live Man...Seperate of JWJ.

He did serve with Quantrill and knew Jesse and Frank James.

He was born in Allegheny Co, Pennsylvania 10-1843 to Salem Trow and Laura Jewett the 6th of 7 children. He had Children, Grandparents and Great Grandparents. I won't go into his full genealogy but it's extensive.

The family moved to Illinois where his Mother died and then the family moved to Linn Co, MO.

The 1860 Census has him in Blue Springs, MO living with the Hudspeths. Side note...A lot of the boys out that way joined up with Quantrill or the Confederates. Trow returned from the war and married Missouri Ann Jesse in Jackson County, MO.
They had two Children. They moved to Texas and he passed on 10-06-1925 in Hereford, Deaf Smith County Texas at age 81. He did attend Quantrill Raider Reunions.

Harrison Trow was one of A.L. Dillenbeck and Elmer Stewart's Charcoal Drawing Subjects for the 'Quantrill Society' series taken from photographs 28yrs after the war ended. What is said in the video about that is kinda confusing and somewhat incorrect. The BB doesn't discuss it for obvious reasons.

I wasn't going to do this, but after thinking more about it and remembering things folks have said and what was said in such a factual way by a guy that appears to be earnest and confident in his research in Just That One YouTube Video...I'm going to say my thoughts again, not just on the BB and this One Video but many books and videos and even records.

IF Anyone Really Cares About A Certain Part of History, Events and the People Involved...We All Have To Research and Get 2-3 Reliable and Official Records To Confirm What's What and Who's Who, On Our Own. No Way Around It. There is a very short list of people that do extensive research on these topics, who don't have an agenda, but even then, they are human and where they get upset at mistakes or oversights they make...sometimes it's just that...an oversight or error and Not Intentional.

Using the BB and video as an example since it's here for everyone to see...That Misinformation IS Intentional. It didn't start out that way on the video....but quickly went from dissecting the BB to Parroting it Verbatim and Confirming Everything In It Along with Adding More Misinformation To It That Anyone Could Verify Easily As True or False. Pictures were shown that he said were of JWJ, AFJ and their Mother...They weren't even close to them. He's Not The Only One That Does This By Any Means on Public Online Sites, Books and Forums.

I've learned a lot from many of you guys, I love the diversity of knowledge here on subjects that interest me, and those things that didn't but do now. After reading something here that I wasn't really familiar with, I would research it. I quickly learned who really had experience or delved deep into topics and researched them beyond The Fictional Books, Blogs and YouTube with a One Sided Agenda or just relied on Google or Wikipedia. Regulars here that I know are serious I don't even research it now because I know if I ask a question it will be an accurate answer. That's a good feeling and my go to people...on anything I want an answer to.

That all being said, it's a sad state of affairs that with all of the resources available in this day and age to confirm things, people have to fight to be able to recover true history and it's just getting worse. History Books haven't always told the truth in the first place and now books are being replaced with the internet and what Anyone wants to put on there. Friends of mine who are teachers are amazed at the things their students come up with and they spend a lot of their time locating the source of the students papers only to find its from some conspiracy sites that's so far off even the basic truth.

The BB, Orvus and Del I think are the Grandfathers of BS in Print on This Subject... Just To Scam People. At least they seem to have the record for longevity, quantity and plagerism on it. It's Crystal Clear to me why there had to be 3-4 sets of Jesse and Frank James, Wives and Mothers to cover all the lies and why the nonexistent characters and aliases had to be created in this story.

I truly apologize for my rant about this... I was up and down most of the night reading and watching videos and looking at records. While researching John Trammell who they claimed was 121yrs old at the time of his death..I saw another black man...Charlie Smith who it was claimed was 135yrs old....Guess Who was behind that...JJ3! He said he had belonged to the Jesse James family as a slave. Should of known he was behind it trying to sell the story.

I want to thank you guys for doing this little project on the BB with me. I'd like to think that after this is done, maybe someone will read it years from now and appreciate us trying to get the truth out on these topics.

Thanks Again,
Kace

 

[Kace]

Ha! WHO...?

He's talking about that huntv or something person on JJ. It's on another thread about genealogy and being related to many famous people.

That thread has Nothing to do with the BB or its characters.

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

In February of 2018 the video SD posted for us to watch was put on YouTube for anyone to see...The supposed premise of the video as Dan L. mentioned was to confirm or denounce events and characters in the BB and it did start out that way, I thought he would be doing like we are and taking each person and topic and through research doing what he said he was going to do in that video. I agree with his intro and I believe most people would regarding the CW.

Dan told Carter the way he went about researching the BB was to take each event and person in order of appearance in the book and research as he went along. Made Sense To Me.

I do not know the guy at all, he looked normal, seemed to have a normal home from what can be seen and the interview between him and Carter started off shockingly normal. It didn't last long though before he got to talking about Captain Harrison Trow who JJ3 had claimed in the BB was an alias JWJ had concocted who was to be an aide to Gov. TT Crittenden which coincides with where we are in the book.

In the video he says Trow has No Past At All...Nothing, Just An Alias That Was Created on April 3rd, 1882...The day of the shooting. He did say that JWJ kept the Alias of Capt.Trow alive and that it was killed off in Hereford, Texas.

Captain Harrison Trow Was A Real Live Man...Seperate of JWJ.

He did serve with Quantrill and knew Jesse and Frank James.

He was born in Allegheny Co, Pennsylvania 10-1843 to Salem Trow and Laura Jewett the 6th of 7 children. He had Children, Grandparents and Great Grandparents. I won't go into his full genealogy but it's extensive.

The family moved to Illinois where his Mother died and then the family moved to Linn Co, MO.

The 1860 Census has him in Blue Springs, MO living with the Hudspeths. Side note...A lot of the boys out that way joined up with Quantrill or the Confederates. Trow returned from the war and married Missouri Ann Jesse in Jackson County, MO.
They had two Children. They moved to Texas and he passed on 10-06-1925 in Hereford, Deaf Smith County Texas at age 81. He did attend Quantrill Raider Reunions.

Harrison Trow was one of A.L. Dillenbeck and Elmer Stewart's Charcoal Drawing Subjects for the 'Quantrill Society' series taken from photographs 28yrs after the war ended. What is said in the video about that is kinda confusing and somewhat incorrect. The BB doesn't discuss it for obvious reasons.

I wasn't going to do this, but after thinking more about it and remembering things folks have said and what was said in such a factual way by a guy that appears to be earnest and confident in his research in Just That One YouTube Video...I'm going to say my thoughts again, not just on the BB and this One Video but many books and videos and even records.

IF anyone Really Cares About A Certain Part of History, Events and the People Involved...We All Have To Research and Get 2-3 Reliable and Official Records To Confirm What's What and Who's Who, On Our Own. No Way Around It. There is a very short list of people that do extensive research on these topics, who don't have an agenda, but even then, they are human and where they get upset at mistakes or oversights they make...sometimes it's just that...an oversight or error and Not Intentional.

Using the BB and video as an example since it's here for everyone to see...That Misinformation IS Intentional. It didn't start out that way on the video....but quickly went from dissecting the BB to Parroting it Verbatim and Confirming Everything In It Along with Adding More Misinformation To It That Anyone Could Verify Easily As True or False. Pictures were shown that he said were of JWJ, AFJ and their Mother...They weren't even close to them. He's Not The Only One That Does This By Any Means on Public Online Sites, Books and Forums.

I've learned a lot from many of you guys, I love the diversity of knowledge here on subjects that interest me, and those things that didn't but do now. After reading something here that I wasn't really familiar with, I would research it. I quickly learned who really had experience or delved deep into topics and researched them beyond The Fictional Books, Blogs and YouTube with a One Sided Agenda or just relied on Google or Wikipedia. Regulars here that I know are serious I don't even research it now because I know if I ask a question it will be an accurate answer. That's a good feeling and my go to people...on anything I want an answer to.

That all being said, it's a sad state of affairs that with all of the resources available in this day and age to confirm things, people have to fight to be able to recover true history and it's just getting worse. History Books haven't always told the truth in the first place and now books are being replaced with the internet and what Anyone wants to put on there. Friends of mine who are teachers are amazed at the things their students come up with and they spend a lot of their time locating the source of the students papers only to find its from some conspiracy sites that's so far off even the basic truth.

The BB, Orvus and Del I think are the Grandfathers of BS in Print on This Subject... Just To Scam People. At least they seem to have the record for longevity, quantity and plagerism on it. It's Crystal Clear to me why there had to be 3-4 sets of Jesse and Frank James, Wives and Mothers to cover all the lies and why the nonexistent characters and aliases had to be created in this story.

I truly apologize for my rant about this... I was up and down most of the night reading and watching videos and looking at records. While researching John Trammell who they claimed was 121yrs old at the time of his death..I saw another black man...Charlie Smith who it was claimed was 135yrs old....Guess Who was behind that...JJ3! He said he had belonged to the Jesse James family as a slave. Should of known he was behind it trying to sell the story.

I want to thank you guys for doing this little project on the BB with me. I'd like to think that after this is done, maybe someone will read it years from now and appreciate us trying to get the truth out on these topics.

Thanks Again,
Kace

EXCELLENT Post!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

He's talking about that huntv or something person on JJ. It's on another thread about genealogy and being related to many famous people.

That thread has Nothing to do with the BB or its characters.

Kace

OK, Thanks!