JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[gollum]

Teacher, we know all that, but we still have questions. Perhaps with all the chalkboard cacophony, you got dust in your ears and didn't hear ... let me repeat.

" ... focus on that happened during the Jesuits' run on the far northern Mexican frontier and especially in today's American Southwest. Cutting to the chase, it's my feeling the Jesuits' mining output was much less than many claim [?1] - they likely primarily recovered silver used for church paraphernalia and the financing of further mission expansion. Significant, but not deserving of the legends of 'vast hoards'.

There may be some hidden candlesticks here and there, and some silver and gold ingots in the hole too, but if the caches were as large as rumored, it's hard for me to swallow that the brothers or their agents haven't recovered them in the past 250 years.[?2] The most obvious explanation is that the the caches are small [?3] and not worth the trouble. Another answer would be that the caches have already been retrieved secretly [?4] - which would make the treasure hunters' interest moot.

Another question - unless there was collusion, how did the Jesuits operate these southwestern mines without the knowledge of the Spanish? [?5] Sure, the brothers may have gypped the Crown out of its share, but how were the locations of the mines kept secret?"

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUS!

Hold your hands out so I can smack them with a yardstick! LOL

I say that the Jesuits exploited a loophole in the law that says no mining for "Clerigos y Religiosos". They used Temporal Coadjutors for that. TCs made up about 30% (I think, maybe more) of the Jesuit World. Their job is to manage all the day to day TEMPORAL (read: moneymaking) needs of the Order. This leaves the Fathers free to pursue their calling of converting the heathens and teaching them about Catholicism. Since it was an Ecclesiastical Precept that forbade Jesuit Fathers to operate businesses for profit, they used TCs to manage the buying and selling of land, livestock, Mission supplies, etc, etc. Since TCs were not bound by the same rules as Full-On Jesuit Priests, they were free to run businesses, run for public office, become military and police officers (everything a Priest could not do, but still just as loyal to the Order of Jesus as any Priest ). When a poor Indian Convert would tell a Father about a silver or gold ledge, I believe the Father would then send word to one of the Temporal Coadjutor Miners about the location. This man would make an official claim on the vein, work it, and send most of whatever he dug to whichever Rectorate he worked with. He would live a frugal lifestyle, keeping allegiance to the Jesuit Order a secret. Since the Vow of Obedience is the last Vow taken by Jesuit Priests (unless there are some secret vows I don't know about), I can't say whether TCs took that vow. My guess is not.

That is why, when it came to hiding their wealth before the expulsion which they knew was coming shortly (after the riots of 1766), THAT important a thing could only be entrusted to men who had taken ALL their vows and professed an oath of life to the Order. The only name I can say with any surety is Father Carlos Rojas (Roxas) SJ. He was originally just the Priest in charge of the Arizpe Mission. Then from 1763-1764 he was appointed Visitor General in Pimeria Alta. This gave him free reign to travel wherever he wanted.

I believe there weren't more than a few Priests entrusted with the secrets of how to find their hidden wealth. I also think that most if not all of them died without being able to pass on those secrets. MANY Jesuits died between the time of their arrests in June 1767 and their eventual deposit in Europe in 1768. I believe that each Rectorate was responsible for secreting away its own wealth. That is why we have an enormous treasure being found in Rio de Janiero. That is why whatever was hidden near the Tumacacori Mission is still there. That is why whatever was hidden in the Superstition Mountains is still there, as well as many other Jesuit Treasure Stories. I think their wealth was hidden in many caches all over Northern New Spain.

Best - Mike

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen & gully: Gul you posted -->Actually, the restriction against "Clerigos Y Religiosos" from owning or operating mines was set in the "Recopilación de las Leyes de los Reynos de Indias" LAW IV, TITLE XII, BOOK I. That means the restriction was in effect in EVERY Spanish held territory (from Europe, and the Western Hemisphere, all the way to the Philippines).
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gul, you forget the actual interpretation of the kings law in the new world was in the hands of two representative groups . One for South America which was very favorable to the Jesuits, the other in Mexico city for North America which were a bit more restrictive, in fact if a jesuit inherited a mine, he was given effectively an indefinate period to dispose of it according to his vows of ----.


You your self mentioned that they were the masters of loopholes.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Don Flacco,

Maybe you missed this part:

and having in view LAW IV, TITLE XII, BOOKI of the Recopiliacion de Indias, which prohibits Religiosos y Clerigos from working mines; and considering this to be as grave an offense as it is declared to be in the law, I have resolved to order and command, as by these presents I do order and command, my Viceroys of New Spain and Peru, and I require charge the Archbishops and Bishops of the two kingdoms to observe what is contained in LAW IV, TITLE XII, BOOK I above cited, and to cause it to be observed in the form precisely as it is expressed

Those rules were meant to apply to every territory the Spanish owned in the world, but:

and stated that in that kingdom they had not enforced the prohibition of the law which prescribes that clerigos cannot hold mines, since in many reales, there are clerigos that are miners, either because of their having acquired them by patrimony, or because necessity has caused the matter to be overlooked.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

OK, Mike ... you've laid out your scenario that the dirty work and heavy lifting was done by managers, and the bosses 'din't know nuttin' and kept their hands clean. OK, fine. Makes sense - that's how the world works.

For the time being, I won't press you for a more convincing explanation as to how perhaps the world's most educated and capable group would not be able to maintain knowledge of where these alleged monster caches of precious metals were so cleverly hidden before the last ox cart left town. For the time being.

However, using your same line of reasoning - Crown thwarts Jesuits - if the Spanish were smart enough to restrict passage of this vital information during the expulsion, then answer me this, please: how did the mining occur in the first place without Spanish intervention and some degree of control? How did the Jesuits pull this off?

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola Springfield - not to speak for Mike, but think about the whole picture; the mines they were operating were producing silver and gold (and copper) and where did this metal go? Very little was found. A number of Jesuits died in the 1767 expulsion, and it is possible that some of them were the men who knew the locations where the treasure was stored. No new Jesuits were entering the Order from 1773 to 1814, over forty years, so many more of the men who knew the locations had plenty of time to die off, carrying the info to the grave. There are some instances where Jesuits returned later, as was reported in the Tumacacori case, and the two lay brothers returned to Argentina and retrieved treasure. The Jesuits definitely owned mines, some openly (and yet kept remarkably quiet) and numerous reports of illicit mining. The mines produced metals, and yet the metals have largely not been found.

I could not agree with the priests being innocent of the mining either; in all cases the padres were the final authority on all activities in their missions and visitas. The lay brothers may have acted as mine foremen, but the padres ruled the roost; they could have shut down the mines by a word.

One other point, the question is raised that if the Jesuits had these mines, how were they able to do so under the noses (so to speak) of the Spanish authorities? They did not entirely get away with it. As with the Planchas de Plata case, word of the discovery leaked out and Spaniards rushed to mine the site, leaving the Jesuits angry and frustrated. In other cases, the Jesuits told their Indios that they could not reveal the mines to anyone other than their Jesuit confessors, that the Spanish would take them away from them, that white men who wanted gold had a devil inside of them etc. In support of this, the Vekol mine is a prime example; it was a lost mine also known as the lost Pima mine for a century, yet the Pimas had no trouble taking Dr Walker right to it when they wished to. John Mitchell was taken right to the San Pedro mine by an old Pima Indian. The Indians kept the secret from the Spanish authorities very well.

The Wandering Jew mine was one example of a "found" lost Jesuit mine, and one estimate had it that the Jesuits must have netted tons of silver based on the visible workings and remaining ore. None of that silver was found by the Franciscans in 1768, nor the Spanish authorities when they rounded up the Jesuits. Do we then assume that it is a few stray candlesticks, used up tons of silver?

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad!
Oroblanco

PS I think that the reason some folks may remain un-convinced, could be due to the lengthy, slow, and piecemeal way in which this topic was debated. Each piece of evidence was taken in view one at a time (or a few at a time) and debated, without simply seeing a summary of the evidence in total. that might be helpful, but would take some time to go back through aLL those old posts.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Orota de los Lobos: You asked where did the metal go ? Obviously it went to Rome via the chain of bogus missions set up one days loaded animal apart. Aso there were several deposits made from Guaynopita, to Tayopa/

No one continues to accumulate metal of any type, unless it can or will benifit him, be he Jesuit or a lonesome gringo .not even dako sheep luvers even if they are cowboys.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Orota de los Lobos: You asked where did the metal go ? Obviously it went to Rome via the chain of bogus missions set up one days loaded animal apart. Aso there were several deposits made from Guaynopita, to Tayopa/

No one continues to accumulate metal of any type, unless it can or will benifit him, be he Jesuit or a lonesome gringo .not even dako sheep luvers even if they are cowboys.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Well I would be a bit more specific than to say Rome amigo; for instance the huge silver statue of Loyola in the church of Gesu, which was ordered melted down by a later Pope. Also millions ended up in banks in the Netherlands, which of course certainly hints at the secrete agreements between the Jesuits and the Dutch,. I put that in plural for the Dutch also had a secret agreement with the Jesuits in east Asia, which helped form the VOC - the Dutch East India Company!

The Jesuit Order seems to have always loved secrecy and political intrigues, which pursuit may well have consumed at least some of their treasures. In an earlier post we had covered how one of their surreptitious shipments of silver was encountered quite by accident near the west coast of Mexico when a Spanish explorer put ashore for fresh water and supplies, only to be surprised when he encountered a whole mule train of silver being slipped out of the country via the Pacific. And too, it is on that coast where English and Dutch pirates operated, seemingly without any base of operations, though rumors were afloat that the Jesuits were in league with them.

I don't think the final chapter is written on this topic by any means, some information may be lost forever due to deaths, or accident, or earlier treasure hunters - or even Jesuit apologists covering up evidence. People come to this thread, and do not read through the 48 pages of posts and information, links etc, so are not getting the full picture we have.

Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas to you all!
Oro de Tayopa (I wish!)

 

[gollum]

OK, Mike ... you've laid out your scenario that the dirty work and heavy lifting was done by managers, and the bosses 'din't know nuttin' and kept their hands clean. OK, fine. Makes sense - that's how the world works.

For the time being, I won't press you for a more convincing explanation as to how perhaps the world's most educated and capable group would not be able to maintain knowledge of where these alleged monster caches of precious metals were so cleverly hidden before the last ox cart left town. For the time being.

However, using your same line of reasoning - Crown thwarts Jesuits - if the Spanish were smart enough to restrict passage of this vital information during the expulsion, then answer me this, please: how did the mining occur in the first place without Spanish intervention and some degree of control? How did the Jesuits pull this off?

Come on Springy,

Having already happened twice (Portugal and France), the Jesuits knew exactly what to expect when their expulsion happened from Spanish Territories. They would all be rounded up, and searched very thoroughly (for money, maps, secret letters, etc). They would only be allowed to keep three things:

1. Their clothes

2. Their Breviaries

3. One Book (99% were Sir Thomas A Kempis' "An Imitation of Christ")

THAT'S IT!

They were taken at first in coaches, but since the roads were so bad, they mainly walked across Mexico to Vera Cruz. Once they got there, 34 of them died. They were allowed to stay in Havana for one month to get ready for the trans-atlantic voyage. While there, nine more died. Another fifteen died on the voyage, for a total of fifty-three out of about 400 Priests and lay brothers. Once in Italy, many were thrown in jail for several years and died there. Mostly, they were sent to their countries of origin to live out there lives in solitude. My guess is that no more than a dozen or so of them knew any details about how to recover their wealth. Easy for that kind of knowledge to get lost under those circumstances.

....................... almost forgot. The entire time, they were not allowed to speak to each other or anybody along the way. I WONDER WHY?

Mike

 

[Springfield]

...The Jesuit Order seems to have always loved secrecy and political intrigues ...

... And too, it is on that coast where English and Dutch pirates operated, seemingly without any base of operations, though rumors were afloat that the Jesuits were in league with them.

I don't think the final chapter is written on this topic by any means, some information may be lost forever due to deaths, or accident, or earlier treasure hunters - or even Jesuit apologists covering up evidence. People come to this thread, and do not read through the 48 pages of posts and information, links etc, so are not getting the full picture we have...

Bingo. Never focus on the magician's hands - try to figure out what he's hiding behind his back.

Why is it the SJ is associated with secrecy, intrigue and presumably, their own agenda? Exactly where does their commitment and loyalty lie? Vatican City? Perhaps elsewhere?

You guys have done a remarkable job with the 48 pages of circumstantial evidence which support allegations of SJ mining in the New World. Now let's move on to what the readers really want - where are the caches in the American Southwest? Mike, your position is firmly established - the caches are lost. I disagree. A jackass prospector may lose track of a discovery in the desert, but I maintain that a series of large, methodically gathered caches of precious metals do not become lost. My opinion is that their locations are still known by the people who own them.

But who actually owns the caches? That's where more detective work is needed. Who were the secretive Jesuits 'in league with', before, during and after their Southwest USA activities? The Pope? The Crown? The English? The Dutch? Others? Were they in charge of their destiny or another brick in a wall? I'm not talking about the starry-eyed padres saving souls in the desert. Foot soldiers are cannon fodder who don't really have any idea what the generals are planning. Stalin called them 'useful idiots' - loyalists who were unaware of the bigger picture.

My working model is that the caches still exist (although some may have been relocated) and that the Jesuits still know their locations, even though they are not their possessions exclusively. We need an Edward Snowden to figure out all those Jesuit secrets. Things are seldom as they seem.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Interesting Springfield, you are basically asking questions that the Spanish Crown also wanted to know, and by myriads of others ever since INCLUDING 'they' themselves.

Since I have talked almost to the point of becoming boreing on Tayopa, I will go on to others.

Once in about the 60's I was staying at a ranch near Chjinapas,Chihuhau, And in going to Chinapas for supplies I often passed a small camp near a spring where there were two very nice young men. They always were running about and a bit standoffish. After a few weeks, and sharing coffee makings with them , they finally told me that they were of the Jesuit order.

Later they confided in me ( Actually Springie I 'am' a sorta nice guy ) that they were looking for a mine that the Jesuits had previously worked, but the directions were too vague,so they returned to Rome,and left me with the promise to keep looking for the mine, this I did in a casual way, and I am not sure if the mine that I eventually found was the one that they were after.

In any event a letter was sent off to the Vatican "to whom it might concern." T.o my prresentt knowlege, no one has ever returned to work that mine which is now hidden due to Nature, so I will never know.

Have you ever been in the northern Barranca country? It is fantastic, as Cortez once explained to the Spanish court when asked to describe Mexico, he merely picked up a piece of Parchmen , crumpled it up then opened it, spread it out and said "This is Mexico."This is soo true , one can spend a lifetime exploring just a small area.

A basic clue was that the early explorer s generally traveled by way of the Rivers, for two reasons, a) to have a source of scarce water, b) to look for placer evidence of deposits.

Of course they also asked whatever Indians they encountered, about curiously colored rocks etc.

Side thingie,,in Tayopa, they disposed of the tailings in the deep barranca in front of it. The first major storm - of which there were many in those days- simply covered them up.

In the case of La Tarasca / Las Pimas. evidence of the smelter and slag was also simply dumped into the arroyo, letting Mother Nature dispose of it.. Today, even the Ejido People that live on top of the remains of the old smelter, do not even know that there was a mining operation in the area,._Other than a walk down well..

Throw in the then merciless Apache that controlled the Barrancas and sierras, and you have an interesting question which reeks of Adams of the Lost Adams placer diggings in the US.

No, there are many reasons why many of the Jesuit workings were never knowingly found.. Also those that were being worked clandestinely were obviusly never registered, so the Present Society has no legal claim on the unregsitered ones. They belong to the firs tones to register them. Also today many of their business holdings pay more than a mine soo ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Springfield,

If what you say is true, then you will be able to answer the one question that begs to be answered:

If the Jesuits have always known where their caches are located, why do they leave them to be recovered by others? Even by the US Treasure Trove Laws, since the caches they hid were hidden by Jesuits (as an Order and not individually), then since the Order is still a viable entity, they have all the rights to recover their caches legally. Since they are part of the Church, they are not required to pay any taxes on those caches. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them from going i and recovering their wealth if they knew where it was!

Only two choices:

1. No caches exist. I don't believe that for a second.

2. Somehow, they lost the knowledge of how to recover their wealth. It is possible they know bits and pieces

Merry Christmas - Mike

 

[Springfield]

Choice 3: the caches don't belong to the Jesuits.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Golly: you forgot ---> of legally 'acquired' riches/ values. A bank robber has no legal claim to his hidden loot from a stage robbery even after he leaves jaiL

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. They obviously know that I have found Tayopa and have information on some of their deposits, yet they are not beating on my door Ok OK I know three possible reasons

a: I am full of it

b: they don't have a legal claim today

C: They are making so much money in other businesses with less headaches, that it simply isn't worth it to them to go through a possibly tarnishing procedures

Remember Spain claims 'anything' that was ever associated with them in the new world. Latest was with the recovery of the silver off of Gibraltar.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mdog]

I don't have anything to offer this thread because I have not studied the Jesuits of New Spain. However, for a time I studied the Jesuits of New France. After awhile, I stopped thinking of them as missionaries, who became involved in questionable activities, and started thinking of them as traders. As traders, they were brilliant.

One thing I noticed about the Jesuits of New France was they pretty much sprinted west as fast as they could go. This seemed odd because there were plenty of Native Americans to be converted in Canada and in the area around the Great Lakes. However, it makes sense if you think they might have been looking for a water passage to the Pacific, something a trader would be interested in.

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Why is it the SJ is associated with secrecy, intrigue and presumably, their own agenda? Exactly where does their commitment and loyalty lie? Vatican City? Perhaps elsewhere?

By gosh Springfield you sure know how to hit the nail don't you? That very question has been floating around the Society of Jesus since they were formed. Their very oaths (vows) even raise questions, for they swear obedience, not to the Pope specifically, but to "the leader". Leader? Which leader, the Pope, or the General of the Jesuits, or .....? Clearly, that oath of obedience, was NOT to the Pope, for even on being ordered to "disband forever" many Jesuits continued on, in Russia and Prussia, even in the USA.

Springfield also wrote

Now let's move on to what the readers really want - where are the caches in the American Southwest? Mike, your position is firmly established - the caches are lost. I disagree. A jackass prospector may lose track of a discovery in the desert, but I maintain that a series of large, methodically gathered caches of precious metals do not become lost. My opinion is that their locations are still known by the people who own them.

Again, right to the heart of the matter amigo; can't accuse you of being obtuse for sure. I have to disagree (respectfully) about the people whom own those treasures knowing exactly where they are, based on the huge possibilities for the info to have become lost (deaths, exile) and reported attempts by returning Jesuits to recover them, as was published in an AZ newspaper in the 1800s. In that case, according to the article, a Jesuit working in Spain found directions to a cache hidden in a church "in the mountains" which cannot be the current Tumcacori mission, and went straight to it, removing mule-loads of bullion. The case in Argentina likewise, the two lay brothers had a map which led them to a mine, and they recovered bullion and/or ore (can't recall and don't have time to go back and look it up). The treasure stories originating with the Indians often have the bullion and dust, hidden in one of the mines which is then sealed. So in my opinion, the very best places to look for Jesuit treasures, are in sealed mines they operated.

Have to agree with Mike in part too, if they knew (today) where the treasures are stored, what prevents them from going openly today and retrieving them? Nothing - which could very well indicate that they do not know the locations. Or it may be that they do not wish the possible negative publicity of recovering a treasure, proceeds of enslaved Indians; in support of this, we may note the story of the chocolate covered balls of gold, which the Jesuits refrained from claiming even though they could have at the time.

Springfield also wrote

But who actually owns the caches? That's where more detective work is needed. Who were the secretive Jesuits 'in league with', before, during and after their Southwest USA activities? The Pope? The Crown? The English? The Dutch? Others? Were they in charge of their destiny or another brick in a wall? I'm not talking about the starry-eyed padres saving souls in the desert. Foot soldiers are cannon fodder who don't really have any idea what the generals are planning. Stalin called them 'useful idiots' - loyalists who were unaware of the bigger picture.

Like most things concerning the Jesuits, the answer to your question is cloudy indeed. However my bet goes on the treasure belonging officially at least, to the Order. But as to whom the Order answers to - at least circa 1760 - it was not the Pope, and they were definitely having secret agreements/negotiations with the Dutch, and even the terrible apostate English. The fact that they made such agreements/negotiations, should be a fair clue that they did not see either the Dutch or the English as their masters, or they would not have needed any negotiation.

Springfield also wrote

My working model is that the caches still exist (although some may have been relocated) and that the Jesuits still know their locations, even though they are not their possessions exclusively. We need an Edward Snowden to figure out all those Jesuit secrets. Things are seldom as they seem.

I have to agree in part, that the Jesuits likely have a fair idea in a general way as to where at least some treasure/bullion is stored, if not the exact location. As in, probably a store of treasure somewhere in the mountains around San Xavier del Bac for one example, which was brought out to show the padres on their return, then hidden again. In fact trusting this exact knowledge to the Indians might have been the plan all along, trusting in the faithfulness of their flock to protect the treasures. The evidence certainly points that way, although it also looks like the Indians themselves have lost the knowledge over time. Perhaps the exile lasted much longer than was anticipated? I think that is the case. However I sure can not disprove your working model, it is possible they know exactly where everything is, and feel it is perfectly safe there, even may have "watchers" to keep an eye on the locations.

Don Jose, el Tropical Tramp wrote

No, there are many reasons why many of the Jesuit workings were never knowingly found.. Also those that were being worked clandestinely were obviusly never registered, so the Present Society has no legal claim on the unregsitered ones. They belong to the firs tones to register them. Also today many of their business holdings pay more than a mine soo ?

I have to agree on this one - in the US, if you fail to keep up your paperwork on a mining claim for a single year, you lose it. The Jesuits have never so much as filed a claim in the US, so any ownership is long gone by now. Your point about their current enterprises generating plenty of revenue are another good point, heck they even own the city buses in some places, there is no need to go after long-lost mines or the caches of treasure associated with them.

Mdog - right on the money concerning the Jesuits in New France - they were very energetic in the pursuit of profits, as can be read in their own words from the Jesuit Relations. Furs, for one, and finding a route to the Pacific was certainly a good way to make even more fortunes. They (French Jesuits) even went in search of the silver mines of the Spanish in New Mexico as a part of their explorations.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas, thank you all also for the very interesting posts!
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

I don't have anything to offer this thread because I have not studied the Jesuits of New Spain. However, for a time I studied the Jesuits of New France. After awhile, I stopped thinking of them as missionaries, who became involved in questionable activities, and started thinking of them as traders. As traders, they were brilliant.

One thing I noticed about the Jesuits of New France was they pretty much sprinted west as fast as they could go. This seemed odd because there were plenty of Native Americans to be converted in Canada and in the area around the Great Lakes. However, it makes sense if you think they might have been looking for a water passage to the Pacific, something a trader would be interested in.

mdog,

I believe you are mistaken in the above highlighted statement. The Jesuits on the eastern half of the nation were there for many decades. Those that came into the Southwest were a separate bunch altogether. I could be wrong, but I believe those earlier Jesuits were sent by the French.

In either case, the Jesuits were sent where there were native souls to be converted, or where there were non-natives who needed the services of the church. It was pretty simple.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the Jesuit were the storm trooper of the church...the best educated, highly motivated, and as joe stated...saviors of lost souls...in the age of enlightenment...
a force created to directly oppose the splinter groups of Christians.

 

[mdog]

mdog,

I believe you are mistaken in the above highlighted statement. The Jesuits on the eastern half of the nation were there for many decades. Those that came into the Southwest were a separate bunch altogether. I could be wrong, but I believe those earlier Jesuits were sent by the French.

In either case, the Jesuits were sent where there were native souls to be converted, or where there were non-natives who needed the services of the church. It was pretty simple.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

Hi Joe,

You're right about the Jesuits of New France and the Jesuits of the southwest operating separately. I've never seen any historical evidence that they made contact with each other but the Aulneau Collection suggests that there was that possibility.
https://archive.org/details/rareaulneaucollect00aulnuoft

This thread is titled Jesuit Treasures-Are They Real? so I guess I can post the link to the Jesuit Relations and not be off subject.
The Jesuit Relations and Allied Documents Volume 14

It's a huge read but interesting.

There are trails that stretch from the Rocky Mountains to the Great Lakes. The terrain and climate is friendlier and Louis XIV of France coveted the silver of Spanish Mexico. Could have been another way to avoid the Spanish officials of Mexico. Just a thought.

 

[UncleMatt]

I would like to see chapter and verse from "treasure trove laws" that would make a Jesuit treasure claimable by the order today should such a treasure be found. I have asked in other threads about this, and most responses were that Spain or the Jesuits would have no claim to any such treasure if it were found on private or public land in the US. Only if it were found in international waters would they have a claim. Comments or links to relevant law?

 

[Oroblanco]

I would like to see chapter and verse from "treasure trove laws" that would make a Jesuit treasure claimable by the order today should such a treasure be found. I have asked in other threads about this, and most responses were that Spain or the Jesuits would have no claim to any such treasure if it were found on private or public land in the US. Only if it were found in international waters would they have a claim. Comments or links to relevant law?

Valid questions amigo, and I think should be done in a separate thread, as such treasure trove(s) and legal aspects, would cover much more than Jesuit treasures.
Oroblanco