Karl von Mueller: LDM FOUND in 1946

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Just for the record, I finished reading the article by KvM in The Th-ers Express late last night and learned that the article had originally been printed in a 1957 issue of National Prospector's Gazette. That means between 1946 (when he claims proof was provided that the LDM was in a cave) and 1957 (when he first wrote the article I've referenced), something happened that made Karl feel it was permissible to print his opinion about the LDM gold cache. What that was, I have no idea...at least not yet. As I said, I'm reading through this stack of papers and am finding bits of useful and/or interesting information as I do so.

Will keep you apprised if I read more about this treasure legend.

Standard Modus Operandi for KvM was to only print finds where he had a signed release. Secondarily he would also print them after the death of all the principles. If the man (KvM) stated that he knew something beyond a shadow of a doubt he was either involved or personally saw something. Occasionally he would be visited by folks who claimed to have found gold and then showed him the gold. Pretty convincing stuff.
Constant statements denigrating the accomplishments of others without ever demonstrating their own accomplishments lead me to doubt the bonafides of these sceptics. There is one on this thread and many on the dowsing forums. exanimo, siegfried schlagrule

 

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[cactusjumper]

SS,

Convincing as it may seem, the LDM is not in a cave. It is exactly as Jacob Waltz described it to Julia and Rhiney.

Joe

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Friend Joe, I don't have a dog in this fight. I was asked what KvM said and I accurately reported it. Looks like my long post to Texman was either delayed or eaten. If it doesn't show up I will retype it. Estee Conatser doesn't say that the mine was a cache and does not present her own beliefs on the topic. regards, siegfried schlagrule

 

[somehiker]

It is my belief that the verifiable discovery of the LDM would be the beginning of the end of the Superstitions as we know it.Thats why I don't hike Sedona or the G.Canyon.Parking lots and vegetarian restaurants---sheesh.
SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

S.S.,

I find no fault in your post. It is information and that is what this site is for. The two caches are not at the mine, but are within site.

A very important clue has never seen publication, and I am not sure it was ever known in private. Jake may have just never mentioned it.

Not trying to denigrate what you, or KVM, are saying.....just know better.

The key to the mystery lies in the matrix of the LDM ore. Had it been know 100 years ago, the would be no LDM.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

S.H.,

You could be right.....on the other hand, the publication of such a verifiable find might be what is needed to preserve the range. It's not the hikers and campers that are the problem, it's the people who work locations under cover of military camo-netting, and leave nine months worth of trash laying on the ground.

Perhaps I would have done the same thing, after looking at that vein, who knows. If I had spent the last 48 years looking for the LDM, I can assure you I would have been jealous of the finders. Not having done that, it gives me the luxury of another perspective.

What would the rest of you do, if you found the mine? Not the Bull S&*# I just wrote, but in reality?

Joe

 

[somehiker]

BB---have you sold the movie rights yet?
Joe--- I have nightmares of long lines of LDM tour buses and roadside vendors where,for ten bucks,you can stand on a ladder and put your face in a cutout of Jakob Waltz astride his mule,while some college kid dressed in a clown suit takes your picture.Live dioramas are presented at the mine every hour from 10 am- 4 pm.Whiskey does dull the visions,though.
---I would do as I always do.Take pictures,make sketches or tracings,add to my logbook and mark my map.Whatever I move,I put back.Whatever I see and touch,I leave behind,so that any who follow, or any that I may choose to guide,can see exactly as I.
---Joe is correct.The LDM ore matrix holds more than gold,and that key fits only one type of lock(in the geological sense).But then again,I'm only interested in the LDM as part of a larger mystery.
---Camoflage,ghillies, and camo-netting only hide the obvious from the untrained.I once taught the subject and some of my trainees coulda tied your bootlaces together while you cut the lawn.Even the apache weren't good enough at it to survive,and they were among the best.I know that you're only joking,Joe,but the last thing that any true practitioner of the art would do is leave behind a single piece of signage,let alone a mountain of it---shudder.
Best:SH

 

[Springfield]

It is my belief that the verifiable discovery of the LDM would be the beginning of the end of the Superstitions as we know it.Thats why I don't hike Sedona or the G.Canyon.Parking lots and vegetarian restaurants---sheesh.
SH.

Go to the bottom of the GC, get off the main trails and spend two weeks wandering the side canyons. It might change your opinion. By the way, I'll wager there are things to be found down there that would relegate the LDM and most other 'Losts' to the catagory of 'child's play'.

 

[MesaBuddy]

You got that right Springfield
Back in the late 80's I did some foundations for the FS and I met up with a park ranger and needless to say , he showed me things down at the bottom that would blow you away , I spent a few weeks wandering around down there and all I can say is it is incredible
There is a village that has been frozen in time , amongst other things that there are no explanations for
MB

 

[cactusjumper]

S.H.,

Needless to say, getting started on the LDM legend around 12 years old, it played heavy on my imagination from a very early age. Sometime shortly after my first trip, at thirteen,
I had a dream that has never left me.

My Dad, Uncle and myself start into the mountains. All along the way their are vendors, hamburger stands, trail signs.....etc. We join a tourist group, mostly older folks, and are led into a cave in Weaver's Needle. We are met inside the cave by Pygmy Indians. They lead us to piles of pure gold nuggets.
We are instructed to take as much as we like. My Uncle motions us away from the gold. Everyone else stuffs their pockets, shirts.....everything they have, with the nuggets.

The Pygmies show us the way to leave the cave. Everyone falls into an underground river and drowns from the weight of their gold.....except for the three of us. We surface somewhere outside the Superstitions.

That's a long time to remember a dream.

Joe

 

[somehiker]

For sure,but it's a good one. SH.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

OK Texman, The gremlins ate my reply to you so here it is again .....

G'day, This thread caused me to reread The Sterling Legend this week and it is still handy so I will extract the data from the 2 1/2 page introduction that will hopefully answer your question. My edition is the 4th printing by Gem Guides Book Company of Pico Rivera, CA. 1983 LCN 72-92072. It was later reprinted by RAM Books. Since they are notorious for changing and cheapening works I don't recommend RAM editions.
KvM states "This is the best book that I have ever read relating to the Lost Dutchman Mine" ..... "many mythical facts are conspicuous by their absence being relegated by innuendo to their proper place" ..... he then names early Dutch searchers Barney Barnard, Barry Storm and Bob Strait ..... "Hardrock Hammond and I spent a fortune in time, effort and expense and concluded that there never was a Lost Dutchman Mine - that the dutchman's gold came from a cache of highgrade that he had secreted." ..... "one reading of this book will not be enough. On second reading, I picked out ingeniously concealed figments (sic) of information that were authentic and, yet, unknown to me." ..... "years ago I was exhausting my patience with this legend and entered a controversial exchange of correspondence with her. My partner got an appointment to meet with her and reported that she was probably the best informed person on this subject and suggested that we resume our work on the Lost Dutchman. Since Hardrock and I still had some mining activities going and were completing some treasure projects, it was impossible to resume actiuvity on the Lost Dutchman before his health broke and he passed on." ..... "No book, in my library, at least, has ever scrutinized a treasure storty so objectively." ..... "Karl von Mueller - Exanimo Hacienda - Segundo, CO - 17 August 72"
side note here by me - After proving that she could hold her own in arguments and research Karl von Mueller and Estee Conatser colloborated in the classic Journals of Eldorado. This will probably be the only RAM book that I will ever reccomend. exanimo, siegfried schlagrule

 

[TEXMAN]

SS. Thanks for reposting that. T.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Karl was a great man and a great treasure hunter and a great author. He wrote many times: The best books on treasure hunting does not have these two words in their titles. Very true.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Sam Ready for some coffee?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[lastleg]

I know this is an old thread but one not previously read. I haven't researched the LDM to any extent but if KvM said it was a
recovered cache of high-grade it fits into my theory of the Vulture Mine as the source. Not long ago I read that highgrading was
so bad there Wickenburg hanged quite a number on the propery. If Waltz was able to smuggle out a lot of ore he was also aware
of the danger of the news getting out. Maybe that explains why he chose the Superstitions as a hiding place.

 

[sgtfda]

That makes no sense. A long way to haul gold with many hiding places in between. Plus the mine owners were not fools. The gold found under the bed was found under the bed. It could have come from anywhere including one of the Dutchmans claims.

 

[lastleg]

Waltz needed an alibi of where the gold came from but the area he chose was negative mineral deposits. Show me a geological report
of gold in the Supers. Rich Hill and Wickenberg were bonanza gold districts.

 

[sgtfda]

There is gold in the superstitions. A friend in my prospecting club did very well there. The gold is not everywhere just like any of the gold areas but it's there. You just need to know what to look for and where. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[lastleg]

I asked Gollum if he had pics of the gold ore (LDM). He posted what looked like a piece of jewelry with a small amount of placer
gold in it. That is all I have seen. I believe he said the speciman was not Vulture gold. I know about true believers so I won't try
to convince them. I've just always thought it odd to make such a big deal over the LDM when real gold is scattered all over the
Bradshaws.