Lets try to stay on task

[MadMarshall]

looks like $26,866 went to lawyers or other professional services, plus another $6670 to the PLP lawyer and court costs

I am somewhat confused.
So your saying that the 26,866 was spent to lawyers and professional fees.. Am I mistaken to think that this money is not part of Amra support of court cases? Paid speakers, legal representatives for AMRA and professional services for Amra..
Its not the same as Lawyers for the Rhinehart case or other cases ? Money given /donated to Rhinehart and other cases would be expressed where on the tax return? Or is that 6670 expresses the donations allocated to Rhinehart and others?
Why do you imply plp got the 6670?

AMRA spent a whole lot of time and did a wholelot of fundraising in 2015 and many of them was done under the guise of raising funds for Rhinehart.
We here at AMRA are pledging our full support to Brandon and this case and will do whatever it takes to help pay for this costly case coming up. This is it folks, this is our line in the sand and the last gasp the opposition to small miners has. We will prevail, but we are going to need to raise a bunch of money for Brandon
https://americanminingrights.com/bra...supreme-court/
Can anyone here or an AMRA representive show me the truth in that statement? that was posted Jan 2015
Here we are in 2017. AND AND well just look at the most recent WMA newsletter.
Anyway maybe someone can help me understand..

Gentlemen I did post this on other thread but removed it.. Figured best to start fresh.
Maybe we can keep the kids game on the other thread and try talk as adults.
Now I am confused on how difficult this is I suppose this should be easy and hopefully Amra and its members can conduct themselves as civilized people. And this goes for individuals who may agree with my point of view. No big deal to disagree but it is a big deal how we go about disagreeing. I am guilty as well and I will make more of an effort not to partake in the playground antics.

The fact that when one asks AMRA to account for anything and is met with so much hostility is concerning. Is this how they treat everyone who just doesn't take there word for it? How hard is it to explain their actions and show tangible results? why fight so much? Your a non profit for heavens sake!! These things are your obligation to the community. Your responsibility.. Not to just say you are doin great things but able to show the things you say..

Can anyone repost link to the Amra 2015 taxreturn? I cant get it to work..

 

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[winners58]

No disagreement you have a biased hostility concerning AMRA
A form 990 is an overview of the organizations financial reporting.
if you are making a donation you would weigh that with what they do/accomplish.
if you are a member you can read the monthly treasurers report, or even ask to see the books
what are your motivations, that's what you really need to ask yourself.
Focus on getting out & getting some gold, Life is short...

 

[MadMarshall]

You are mistaken and I think a lot of people would agree with me. People don't like bein mislead/lied too.. If I say I am going to raise donations and hold fundraisers for a particular thing I am bound by law to give a certain amount of funds from the fundraising to that I put claim to support.. If not, then I think its called fraud. or embezzlement . definitely criminal..

How much money did AMRA give to Rhinehart in 2015? where is it reflected in the tax return.?
Just answer those 2 simple questions..

 

[winners58]

well there are photos of them giving him a check.
they have followed the law they reported the money they raised, they reported the charity's the money was for
PLP is a 501c3 charity, Brandon is not a charity, the money was solicited for AMRA, a 501c3,
how the money was distributed to the several programs they support is up to the board of directors.

this is the same as the threads last year, they offered to have someone meet with their accountant to look at the books
and now a year later you're still talking about it, just wanting to know, keeping them honest, don't want them mining the miner.
that doesn't fly, you have something stuck in your craw, So what are your motivations. whats really going on...
Life is too dam short.

 

[Goldwasher]

It doesn't matter winner. If They raised a hundred and gave away ninety nine. Victor and Todd would still ***** about it.

The reason they do what they do here is it makes them think they are addressing the issue. Amra members here even a board member has no reason to " answer to them"

Members can see the details of the financials.

Neither Todd or Victor have actually reached out they are trying to create the answers they want to hear.

The best part of this thread is reading what Oregon Viking said before it gets deleated and seeing Victor and Todd gripe about something based on some personal creed while actually doing the same very thing or that is to say the opposite.

Paraphrase.."I'm all about a man doing what he wants to do, who has the right to lash out when some one says something"....the playground is dripping with immaturity and it is from three bullies, the same three over and over.

The irony is that most of the others here speaking up in defense of AMRA are not even members. Though they like me take time to actually get involved. If anything so you can know for yourself that you didn't just go online ***** complain and accuse.

I at times have even griped at Rick,(wma) though I like him and have met him. We are neighbors pretty much. I'm super busy right now . but, after I get my new spot remodeled and old store moved I am going to start putting time into whatever I can for WMA. I use my store for public outreach to non miners who come into the area for other reasons. I will ask what I can do for him and try to help as best I can. My store is right down the road from my house so, all he has to do is stop by and we can talk face to face and try to figure things out.

Rick I'm here to help sorry for breaking you balls online in the past. I'm sure you see online Goldwasher is Goldwasher . The guy you met at the waterboard hearings is the same but better. I play the devils advocate for a reason but, when it comes down to it I know what and why your doing it were neighbors and I aim to actually help.

The second best part of this thread is the true character it reveals.

T Todd can never ever articulate a real argument or point. To see him criticize Keith Walker for taking care of his daughter and the veiled accusation he made about their relationship...holy frickin WOW...

some very empty souls here. I smile knowing how much this is bugging you guys and that it isn't gonna change. The mental suffering is all on you and you deserve it.

I talked a client into joining AMRA . They have claims close to him. We drove out after he joined cool spot. Got good gold feet from where we parked.
I'm gonna join then I'll be one of those members being called out here. For nothing. Being attacked for personal choice by other members who have no clue.

Then I will make all this nonsense stop.

 

[minerrick]

As in the other thread, these guys are most likely paid "managed opposition" offered up to us by someone who doesn't want AMRA and other pro-mining groups to succeed. They could be supported by enviro groups or perhaps some of the larger mining/gravel concerns (see Hardesty Case) who want better access to CA resources, without the pesky small scale miner getting in the way. These guys are like a broken record- no matter what you say, the repeat their mantra. It's readily apparent their intent is to disrupt organizations and individuals who are engaged in a fight to open up better access for the SMALL SCALE MINER- in CA. It doesn't make sense, unless THEIR JOB is to create doubt in the minds of the mining community? Every online community has its shills, why not this one, it's naive to think that our opposition WOULDN'T find a way to disrupt us and cause doubt. If this is their goal, they are on track- so far they have been pretty successful at it. In the big scheme of things, AMRA is a very small fish in a very big ocean. My guess AMRA is working out the whole 501C3 thing as I am sure they are still trying to figure out a way to represent the miner AND keep food on the table and maintain their standing behind their 501c3 which is probably quite the juggling act. Easier said then done. Unlike any other "industry" - resources available to support this industry are very thin. It appears the only successful model to raise money in the small mining arena- is to organize as a mining advocacy group AND to have some sort of mining club with claims that club members can go to; which is a difficult proposition in a lot of ways. Now if any of our advocacy groups were saving a bug like a cricket, money, legislation and volunteers would be flowing at us like crazy. Quite the irony. It's a MAD, MAD world; but it is what it is and our advocacy groups still need to figure out the magic potion for raising funds. Tough nut to crack.

There are a lot of bigger fish to focus your attention on, like how a certain 501C3 is supposed to be non-political, and yet they are writing legislation, and have the ability to slip legislation into the state political process. Or perhaps how their lead scientist - while on their board- was writing "unbiased" mercury reports for the state on Humbug Creek which showed a single dredger, using a 4" dredge, loaded up the whole South Fork of the Yuba River with mercury pollution (probably a several order of magnitiude mistake of putting the decimal in the wrong place). Now THAT'S News.

If I got my claim "jumped" by a club claim next door, I would focus my energies on working with the club, and making sure my claim boundary signs were more obvious. If someone wanders off a club claim, I think it is unfair to suggest that somehow the club itself supported that behavior. Me- I would ask AMRA if I could come to the next meeting, stand up in front of the group, introduce myself and politely tell the members that I would appreciate it if they didn't overun my claim. People tend to work with people they like........

 

[MadMarshall]

2 very simple questions. dont really warrents all the, lip service.
some how i get the impression AMRA spent more money on gas then supporting Rhinehart.

 

[Goldwasher]

As in the other thread, these guys are most likely paid "managed opposition" offered up to us by someone who doesn't want AMRA and other pro-mining groups to succeed. They could be supported by enviro groups or perhaps some of the larger mining/gravel concerns (see Hardesty Case) who want better access to CA resources, without the pesky small scale miner getting in the way. These guys are like a broken record- no matter what you say, the repeat their mantra. It's readily apparent their intent is to disrupt organizations and individuals who are engaged in a fight to open up better access for the SMALL SCALE MINER- in CA. It doesn't make sense, unless THEIR JOB is to create doubt in the minds of the mining community? Every online community has its shills, why not this one, it's naive to think that our opposition WOULDN'T find a way to disrupt us and cause doubt. If this is their goal, they are on track- so far they have been pretty successful at it. In the big scheme of things, AMRA is a very small fish in a very big ocean. My guess AMRA is working out the whole 501C3 thing as I am sure they are still trying to figure out a way to represent the miner AND keep food on the table and maintain their standing behind their 501c3 which is probably quite the juggling act. Easier said then done. Unlike any other "industry" - resources available to support this industry are very thin. It appears the only successful model to raise money in the small mining arena- is to organize as a mining advocacy group AND to have some sort of mining club with claims that club members can go to; which is a difficult proposition in a lot of ways. Now if any of our advocacy groups were saving a bug like a cricket, money, legislation and volunteers would be flowing at us like crazy. Quite the irony. It's a MAD, MAD world; but it is what it is and our advocacy groups still need to figure out the magic potion for raising funds. Tough nut to crack.

There are a lot of bigger fish to focus your attention on, like how a certain 501C3 is supposed to be non-political, and yet they are writing legislation, and have the ability to slip legislation into the state political process. Or perhaps how their lead scientist - while on their board- was writing "unbiased" mercury reports for the state on Humbug Creek which showed a single dredger, using a 4" dredge, loaded up the whole South Fork of the Yuba River with mercury pollution (probably a several order of magnitiude mistake of putting the decimal in the wrong place). Now THAT'S News.

If I got my claim "jumped" by a club claim next door, I would focus my energies on working with the club, and making sure my claim boundary signs were more obvious. If someone wanders off a club claim, I think it is unfair to suggest that somehow the club itself supported that behavior. Me- I would ask AMRA if I could come to the next meeting, stand up in front of the group, introduce myself and politely tell the members that I would appreciate it if they didn't overun my claim. People tend to work with people they like........

I don't know about Todd. Victor is what he says he is..for better or worse.

We will be talking Rick. I moved my store next to the river Shack. I'll be open May 1st. I'm doing all my own T.I. so if your driving by in the meantime stop by. There's a very good chance I'll be there. Especially after this week. I'll have materials by then and will be doing walls and floors. I'm right in the corner #8

 

[minerrick]

Goldwasher, I'm thinking you've got me confused with the other Rick who is the legislative contact in our group. He lives down by you, and I pretty much have no clue what you are talking about. Rick E. is a good guy, and I am sure that is who you are thinking of.

 

[minerrick]

2 very simple questions. dont really warrents all the, lip service.
some how i get the impression AMRA spent more money on gas then supporting Rhinehart.

So what? AMRA wasn't organized to specifically support Rinehart. WHY ARE YOU SO FOCUSED ON AMRA? Are you OCD? Really, dude you have some kind of weird compulsion. If you aren't a shill, you need to get a life. Like Winners was saying, go gold mining and focus your energies on something PRODUCTIVE. All this negativity isn't good for your psyche, it will drive you insane (if you aren't already there).

 

[MadMarshall]

gw i truly hate butting heads with you
. but i do believe AMRA is taking advantage of peolple. and it really shouldnt be like pulling teeth to have these men put value to their words. how many years have i heard shannon say that they are the biggest supporter of the rhinehart case. was i not supposed to take that literally?
why do i see the same practices in miners activist groups that i see in enviros activist. just lip service and a whole lot of misallocated funds. just a whole lot of B.S.. just whateverclever to raise a buck to support what? why is it so hard for any non profit these days to be and do what they claim..

 

[Terry Soloman]

I'm not paid by anyone. I am not a fan of AMRA, or PLP. It is my belief that AMRA is a scam, basically set up to let Poe travel and mine for free. I also believe backing any of these groups is a sucker's bet.

I've said for MANY years now that no one will EVER organize "Small Miners," because there are not enough of them to make any difference politically.

 

[winners58]

FYI; any and all moneys that went to pay the lawyers, court fees
you'd think would be something people would like to know what it cost.
funny how Lawyers think; that information is confidential.
.

 

[MadMarshall]

FYI; any and all moneys that went to pay the lawyers, court fees
you'd think would be something people would like to know what it cost.
funny how Lawyers think; that information is confidential.
.
View attachment 1435832

I don't remember asking how much the lawyers charged or the total cost of the case.. Though I admit I am curious.
But I did ask ..how much money did AMRA give to the rhinehart case and where is it reflected on the Tax Returns?


Personally Ive actually been a little worried but as time ticks away I just find myself getting more and more disapointed. This should be an easy thing for AMRA to smack me down with.. I thought Brandon might even crack me and tell me that AMRA paid the majority of the court costs and actually stepped up to the plate..

Do I dare ask how much of a pittance WMA/ Pacific Crest Alliance allocated to all these important cases that need our financial support? What percent of donations is worth the WMA integrity? Do I dare ask?

 

[Underburden]

I don't know, seems weird, if you've been trying for years to get answers, why not call AMRA or Brandon direct. Why use an internet forum as your intermediary? If I want to know the price of a new Ford F150, I'll call the dealer.

 

[minerrick]

I don't remember asking how much the lawyers charged or the total cost of the case.. Though I admit I am curious.
But I did ask ..how much money did AMRA give to the rhinehart case and where is it reflected on the Tax Returns?


Personally Ive actually been a little worried but as time ticks away I just find myself getting more and more disapointed. This should be an easy thing for AMRA to smack me down with.. I thought Brandon might even crack me and tell me that AMRA paid the majority of the court costs and actually stepped up to the plate..

Do I dare ask how much of a pittance WMA/ Pacific Crest Alliance allocated to all these important cases that need our financial support? What percent of donations is worth the WMA integrity? Do I dare ask?

Easy answer 100%. We are the litigant on one of the cases (Like Keith Walker and Brandon Rinehart), so we HAVE TO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE CASE or it goes away. Donations or not, WE PERSONALLY are on the hook for attorney fees. We have "more skin in the game" than most could even imagine. In my case I have literally $thousands of dollars and hours invested so I can watch you complain and question that I am doing enough. It's big fun.

No one here gets paid.

If you read our newsletter you will notice that we suggest that you send the money directly to the other litigants, so none of THAT money even comes in contact with us. EVERY DIME sent to us is spent to the benefit of the mining community.

 

[MadMarshall]

Easy answer 100%. We are the litigant on one of the cases (Like Keith Walker and Brandon Rinehart), so we HAVE TO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE CASE or it goes away. Donations or not, WE PERSONALLY are on the hook for attorney fees. We have "more in the game" than most could even imagine. In my case I have literally $thousands of dollars and hours invested so I can watch you ***** and moan that I am not doing enough. It's getting old.

No one here gets paid.

Is that enough "SKIN IN THE GAME" for you?

Great..
So its seems MinerRick you are in a position or at least Privy to the knowledge of how much money AMRA Gave to the Case? Is that a fair statement? Why not just tell say it?
2 easy questions..
So why not put it to rest?

How much money since 2015 has AMRA given to the case!!!!!

Shannon why don't you just answer me?.. . make me a believer!!! If I am wrong I will account for it..
But quit playing these little girl games.....
Drag this out forever if you guys like but honestly I cant imagine why.. whats to hide? you think this is something AMRA would be proud to share they sure enjoyed all the donations brought in , by telling people they were supporting Brandon.. Maybe AMRA should be more careful in their words instead of saying they were helping with money probaley they should of said Moral support. I figure that's way closer to the truth....

We here at AMRA are pledging our full support to Brandon and this case and will do whatever it takes to help pay for this costly case coming up. This is it folks, this is our line in the sand and the last gasp the opposition to small miners has. We will prevail, but we are going to need to raise a bunch of money for Brandon

 

[Tuolumne]

Easy answer 100%. We are the litigant on one of the cases (Like Keith Walker and Brandon Rinehart), so we HAVE TO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE CASE or it goes away. Donations or not, WE PERSONALLY are on the hook for attorney fees. We have "more skin in the game" than most could even imagine. In my case I have literally $thousands of dollars and hours invested so I can watch you complain and question that I am doing enough. It's big fun.

No one here gets paid.

If you read our newsletter you will notice that we suggest that you send the money directly to the other litigants, so none of THAT money even comes in contact with us. EVERY DIME sent to us is spent to the benefit of the mining community.

every dime? what about atm fees? thats thousands of dollars not benefiting anyone but amra and the banks- you are not stating the truth about every dime benefiting the mining community. I guess we have a board member finally starting to talk but tripping over his own words again...... keep talking about how much went to brandon in 2015/16 please

 

[Terry Soloman]

Easy answer 100%. We are the litigant on one of the cases (Like Keith Walker and Brandon Rinehart), so we HAVE TO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE CASE or it goes away. Donations or not, WE PERSONALLY are on the hook for attorney fees. We have "more skin in the game" than most could even imagine. In my case I have literally $thousands of dollars and hours invested so I can watch you complain and question that I am doing enough. It's big fun.

No one here gets paid.

If you read our newsletter you will notice that we suggest that you send the money directly to the other litigants, so none of THAT money even comes in contact with us. EVERY DIME sent to us is spent to the benefit of the mining community.

Gosh, that was a heavy load of NOTHING! It's no wonder folks are starting to wonder where their donations are REALLY going!

 

[minerrick]

I don't do the books, so I don't know exactly what his donations are, but AMRA has been a staunch supporter of WMA and his group is single-handedly responsible for organizing the mining community- which was no simple feat. Refer to my previous posts. I have no idea what he has given to any other lawsuit, but I would also guess that AMRA has also heavily supported them too. You must have missed my previous posts, so I will post it again: In our experience of working with AMRA, we have NEVER HAD ANY NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH AMRA. We have no relationship with them other than working with them. I never met Shannon before I became involved with WMA and my only experience of working with his is through WMA. In my opinion, SHANNON and his team are stand up guys and gals.

I am really starting to think you are either a paid shill or you have a mental issue. You and your friends need to seek help. You are creating a mountain out of a molehill and you won't let it go. Get a hobby, like prospecting and stay away from the computer. It's bad for your mental health. I am done with this conversation and I will take Reeds advice and put you on ignore. You and your friends really are becoming irritating. No wonder he doesn't respond to you.