Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Man talk about bull headed----------------mi cafe?

Only the fort thingie and the road from another era. and part of the brain.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Springfield]

... p.s. It has been speculated that perhaps the gold came from returning miners from Caliif. many many were simply hijacked and killed for their gold...

More than speculated. Following is E.V. Batchler's account from Nov 19, 1938 (Library of Congress's American Life Histories: Manuscripts from the federal Writers' Project, 1936-1940). [The Adams Diggings]

... [begin Page 3] ...

Now I am going to tell a story that is almost completely at variance with the story printed by the El Paso Herald. It is a first-hand story from the lips of Bob Lewis, pioneer, old-time prospector, cowboy and for the better part of his manhood, a frontier peace officer and a personal friend of Edward Adams. Bob is a big man, well over six-feet and weighing in the vicinity of two-hundred pounds. He always have a jovial greeting and manner, and has the map of Ireland printed all over his face. Big, rough and burly, he has been the [?] of many crooks and lawbreaker in [?] County. He lives in Magdalena. He has been over nearly every section of the southwestern corner of the State of New Mexico, and knows its rugged terrain as well or better than nearly any other man. He is renowned for his lack of fear, and truthfulness. That is why I believe his account of the Adams Diggings far more than any of the others I have heard. Here is the story in his own words:

"Sure I knowed old Adams. I knowed him before he left Magdalena, and after he came back. Never was a bigger old liar. [?] He'd tell a lie when the truth would fit better. He was used to braggin' and stretchin' the truth. He [?] drinkin' man too. I knowed him to stay drunk six months out of the year," (maybe this was an exaggeration, but [?] people have told so [?] the same thing) "and then go on [?] and throw a big drunk the rest of the year.

It was in the early part of August, 1864, when Adams and about seven other men organized a trappin' expedition and started up in the northwestern part of the state to trap beaver. They started early and intended to get their camp set up before cold weather came. They camped on a little stream not far from old Fort San Rafael, which is now Fort Wingate and has been moved a few miles from the old site of Fort San Rafael.

Now I don't know this for certain, but I believe from events which I will try to explain later, that just about dark, a caravan from California stopped and threw camp with Adams party. They had stopped at Fort Wingate two days before and had told the commanding officer that they were transporting between sixty and eighty thousand dollars in placer gold from California to some of the Eastern states. I know that they were never seen after the time Adams party was wiped out by the Indians, so I believe that they camped with Adams party and met the same fate.

I know from Adams personal character, that he was not above ambushing such a caravan. I did not know Davidson, but as he was Adams sidekick, I believe he throwed in with Adams and the two of 'em made plans to hijack the California outfit and steal their gold.

An encampment like that, in those days, usually got us an hour or two before daylight, in order to make an early start. It is said that Adams and Davidson made an excuse to go and gather some wood, as wood had been scarce the evening before and they had not been able to obtain a sufficient supply. I believe that Adams and Davidson absented themselves from camp, so they could go down country a few miles and find a suitable place for waylaying the California outfit.

While they were gone, and it must have been just as good daylight came, because that is the {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} time when Indians usually attack, a big bunch of Apaches attacked the camp. So complete must have been the surprise, that the white men could not have had a very good chance to grab their guns and defend themselves. Every man in that camp was killed, scalped and their bodies mutilated, and all their provisions, horses and mules stolen by the Apaches.

When Adams and Davidson returned to camp, they must have congratulated themselves on the luck that had caused them to absent themselves from camp. Rummaging around among the supplies, Adams must have found the gold the California outfit had been carrying. As proof of this, I later saw a handful of this gold that Adams had save when he buried the rest and it was a quality entirely foreign to that part of New Mexico and identical with some I had seen from California Diggin's. The pellets were about the size of a pinhead, up to as big as a pinto bean, and I knew that nobody ever found that kind of gold in the parts of New Mexico I have prospected over.

After burying the gold in what they considered a safe place, the two made their way afoot, supposedly, to Fort San Rafael, where they said they reported the massacre to the authorities in charge and petitioned aid from the commanding officer to go back and help them relocate a mine they had found and to view the remains of the Indian attack.

I do not believe this last part, because many years later, I happened to be in Evans [?], in March 1890, where Adams, who had been drinkin' pretty heavy, related a story of how he had gone to Fort San Rafael, on a certain day (he mentioned the exact date, which I can not now remember) in August, 1864, and petitioned the commanding officer for aid to return to give decent burial to the massacred party and offer him and Davidson, protection while they tried to relocate a rich gold [?].

There happened to be an old, retired Army officer in the saloon who had listened intently to Adams story. This man was Captain Sanborn, who was considered a heavy drinker. However, he did not appear to be drunk at this particular time, and he answered Adams: "Sir, since the latter part of your speech concerns me, and it is most damaging to my character, I now take it upon myself to refute your statements and call you a contemptible, damned liar. I happened to be the commanding officer of Fort San Rafael at the time of which you are talking. I recall the day of which you speak very clearly and to my knowledge you never set foot in that Fort in your life. It could never be said truthfully that Cap Sanborn ever refused aid to anybody within a weeks [?] of my post who needed it."

"Who's a damn liar?" bellowed Adams. "Yuh better eat them words cap, or me an' you are agoin' to tangle right here an' now. Bigod! I don't like army officers anyway, so I might as well wipe up th' floor with one of 'em right now.” Saying which, he started for Sanborn.

Cap Sanborn ran behind the lunch counter and grabbed a big butcher knife and jumped over the counter. Adams ran out the front door and Sanborn chased him for a couple of blocks shouting that Adam was the dirtiest liar that ever lived. He could not catch Adams, and returned to the saloon, where he again told everybody in hearing distance that Adams had not ever been to Fort San Rafael.

From the above incident I drew the conclusion that Adams and Davidson never went to Fort San Rafael at all, but passed a considerable distance to the south in an effort to avoid it. They limped into the little town of Reserve, sore-footed and half-starved.

It was in Reserve that Adams showed a couple of pieces of ore in quartz form that [?] exceedingly rich, and stated that it was from the mine he had found before the Indians had massacred his party. He made no mention of the California expedition.
I later saw the same samples Adams had shown in Reserve and recalled that Adams had showed me one of the samples before he left Magdalena in 1864. He had told me then that he had given an Indian some whiskey for the samples and had promised him more if he would show him where he got the samples. If Adams story he told in Reserve about these samples had been true, there would indeed have been a substantial claim to his having found a rich mine. This is where all such stories [?] from and these [??] the [?] I have ever seen in my life, and must have come from one of the richest mines ever heard of. But to my knowledge, no ore of similar quality has ever been found, and the Indian who gave the samples to Adams must be long since dead and the place he found the samples will probably never be found.

Adams didn't dare show any of the gold at that time he had stolen and buried. Therefore he and Davidson separated, Adams going to Pima, Arizona to obtain money and supplies from friends to outfit an expedition to later come back and salvage the gold. Davidson went on a supposed visit to see some relatives in Louisiana.

Adams was successful in his attempt to raise an expedition, and he sent for Davidson who returned from Louisiana and the expedition met him in Alma, a little town just south of Reserve. They could not find any gold, and Adams later made several solitary trips in search of it, but never had any luck.

Several expeditions have been organized and sent forth in an effort to find the Adams Diggings, but all have met with defeat. It was in 1918 that I decided to see if I couldn't find the bodies of the men who were massacred in Adams party. Adams had told me that they had camped about fifteen miles north of three peaks that rose up from the plain and were a considerable distance from any other mountains. I got to thinkin' and the only three peaks I knew of between Gallup and Magdalena, were the Tres Montosas, which are only about fifteen miles west of Magdalena. Figuring about fifteen or twenty miles north of there, I went to North Lake. A few miles north of North Lake, I found the bodies of five men, all buried in one hole. I could find no clue to any gold from anything in the vicinity, so I came back to town and reported the finding of the bodies. It is my belief that the bodies I found were the remains of part of Adams expedition, but of course I can't prove this. But there is one thing I do know. That is that an old fellow I know, found about twenty thousand dollars buried about five miles north of North Lake, and only a few miles from the place I discovered there bodies. This mans name is Jose Maria Jaramillo, and this what he told me. But when I asked him if the twenty thousand was in gold dust, he would not tell me.

That's the way a lot of there old, "rich-nice" stories get started," finished old Bob. "I've heard that the definition of a miner is a damn liar with a hole in the ground. And a prospector is a damn liar without anything but a dang good imagination. You can talk to most of 'em, and dang near ever' one of 'em tells you about some rich prospect they struck. But they're always broke and beggin' a grubstake. If their mines was half as rich as their imaginations, they could take a handpick, and a gold pan and make more money in a month than most bank presidents could by wearin' out a half a dozen fountains pens. It's true that sometimes a prospector does hit it rich, but when he does, he generally don't talk and brag on it, but gets busy and gets some capital interested and starts workin' it. That's my story of the Adams Diggings. It is one of the richest mines in the world in the mind of a danged old liar like I knowed Ed Adams to be, and in the minds of a bunch of old, dream-crazy prospectors who aint got no more sense than to believe in it."

 

[UncleMatt]

The story about the Stewart Placer came from Temple Cornelius. I haven't see another original source for it. And in that story Temples tells us that the Utes covered up the placer with logs and dirt to keep it from attracting more attention. Temple was friends with the Utes, and they confided in him about this kind of stuff, or so he claimed. I am actually working on verifying a few of those claims from the Ute side, and it will be interesting to see what I come up with.

 

[UncleMatt]

UncleMatt:

I continue to believe there are more full-time treasure hunters in Colorado than there are in Florida.

Successful ones, anyway.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: Are you familiar with "Uncle Dick" Wootton: The Pioneer Frontiersman of the Rocky Mountain Region by Howard Louis Conard?

I would like to believe that is true, but I don't see them posting here, or anywhere else online. Coloradoans are a weird lot, especially the old timer treasure hunters and prospector types. So it doesn't surprise me that they don't advertise what they have going in in CO. I don't have LAD groups to take advantage of, and appreciate all you guys do to research and discuss the tales you do. Sorry, no intent to derail thread.

 

[Oroblanco]

More than speculated. Following is E.V. Batchler's account from Nov 19, 1938 (Library of Congress's American Life Histories: Manuscripts from the federal Writers' Project, 1936-1940). [The Adams Diggings]

... [begin Page 3] ...

Now I am going to tell a story that is almost completely at variance with the story printed by the El Paso Herald. It is a first-hand story from the lips of Bob Lewis, pioneer, old-time prospector, cowboy and for the better part of his manhood, a frontier peace officer and a personal friend of Edward Adams. Bob is a big man, well over six-feet and weighing in the vicinity of two-hundred pounds. He always have a jovial greeting and manner, and has the map of Ireland printed all over his face. Big, rough and burly, he has been the [?] of many crooks and lawbreaker in [?] County. He lives in Magdalena. He has been over nearly every section of the southwestern corner of the State of New Mexico, and knows its rugged terrain as well or better than nearly any other man. He is renowned for his lack of fear, and truthfulness. That is why I believe his account of the Adams Diggings far more than any of the others I have heard. Here is the story in his own words:

"Sure I knowed old Adams. I knowed him before he left Magdalena, and after he came back. Never was a bigger old liar. [?] He'd tell a lie when the truth would fit better. He was used to braggin' and stretchin' the truth. He [?] drinkin' man too. I knowed him to stay drunk six months out of the year," (maybe this was an exaggeration, but [?] people have told so [?] the same thing) "and then go on [?] and throw a big drunk the rest of the year.

It was in the early part of August, 1864, when Adams and about seven other men organized a trappin' expedition and started up in the northwestern part of the state to trap beaver. They started early and intended to get their camp set up before cold weather came. They camped on a little stream not far from old Fort San Rafael, which is now Fort Wingate and has been moved a few miles from the old site of Fort San Rafael.

Now I don't know this for certain, but I believe from events which I will try to explain later, that just about dark, a caravan from California stopped and threw camp with Adams party. They had stopped at Fort Wingate two days before and had told the commanding officer that they were transporting between sixty and eighty thousand dollars in placer gold from California to some of the Eastern states. I know that they were never seen after the time Adams party was wiped out by the Indians, so I believe that they camped with Adams party and met the same fate.

I know from Adams personal character, that he was not above ambushing such a caravan. I did not know Davidson, but as he was Adams sidekick, I believe he throwed in with Adams and the two of 'em made plans to hijack the California outfit and steal their gold.

An encampment like that, in those days, usually got us an hour or two before daylight, in order to make an early start. It is said that Adams and Davidson made an excuse to go and gather some wood, as wood had been scarce the evening before and they had not been able to obtain a sufficient supply. I believe that Adams and Davidson absented themselves from camp, so they could go down country a few miles and find a suitable place for waylaying the California outfit.

While they were gone, and it must have been just as good daylight came, because that is the {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} time when Indians usually attack, a big bunch of Apaches attacked the camp. So complete must have been the surprise, that the white men could not have had a very good chance to grab their guns and defend themselves. Every man in that camp was killed, scalped and their bodies mutilated, and all their provisions, horses and mules stolen by the Apaches.

When Adams and Davidson returned to camp, they must have congratulated themselves on the luck that had caused them to absent themselves from camp. Rummaging around among the supplies, Adams must have found the gold the California outfit had been carrying. As proof of this, I later saw a handful of this gold that Adams had save when he buried the rest and it was a quality entirely foreign to that part of New Mexico and identical with some I had seen from California Diggin's. The pellets were about the size of a pinhead, up to as big as a pinto bean, and I knew that nobody ever found that kind of gold in the parts of New Mexico I have prospected over.

After burying the gold in what they considered a safe place, the two made their way afoot, supposedly, to Fort San Rafael, where they said they reported the massacre to the authorities in charge and petitioned aid from the commanding officer to go back and help them relocate a mine they had found and to view the remains of the Indian attack.

I do not believe this last part, because many years later, I happened to be in Evans [?], in March 1890, where Adams, who had been drinkin' pretty heavy, related a story of how he had gone to Fort San Rafael, on a certain day (he mentioned the exact date, which I can not now remember) in August, 1864, and petitioned the commanding officer for aid to return to give decent burial to the massacred party and offer him and Davidson, protection while they tried to relocate a rich gold [?].

There happened to be an old, retired Army officer in the saloon who had listened intently to Adams story. This man was Captain Sanborn, who was considered a heavy drinker. However, he did not appear to be drunk at this particular time, and he answered Adams: "Sir, since the latter part of your speech concerns me, and it is most damaging to my character, I now take it upon myself to refute your statements and call you a contemptible, damned liar. I happened to be the commanding officer of Fort San Rafael at the time of which you are talking. I recall the day of which you speak very clearly and to my knowledge you never set foot in that Fort in your life. It could never be said truthfully that Cap Sanborn ever refused aid to anybody within a weeks [?] of my post who needed it."

"Who's a damn liar?" bellowed Adams. "Yuh better eat them words cap, or me an' you are agoin' to tangle right here an' now. Bigod! I don't like army officers anyway, so I might as well wipe up th' floor with one of 'em right now.” Saying which, he started for Sanborn.

Cap Sanborn ran behind the lunch counter and grabbed a big butcher knife and jumped over the counter. Adams ran out the front door and Sanborn chased him for a couple of blocks shouting that Adam was the dirtiest liar that ever lived. He could not catch Adams, and returned to the saloon, where he again told everybody in hearing distance that Adams had not ever been to Fort San Rafael.

From the above incident I drew the conclusion that Adams and Davidson never went to Fort San Rafael at all, but passed a considerable distance to the south in an effort to avoid it. They limped into the little town of Reserve, sore-footed and half-starved.

It was in Reserve that Adams showed a couple of pieces of ore in quartz form that [?] exceedingly rich, and stated that it was from the mine he had found before the Indians had massacred his party. He made no mention of the California expedition.
I later saw the same samples Adams had shown in Reserve and recalled that Adams had showed me one of the samples before he left Magdalena in 1864. He had told me then that he had given an Indian some whiskey for the samples and had promised him more if he would show him where he got the samples. If Adams story he told in Reserve about these samples had been true, there would indeed have been a substantial claim to his having found a rich mine. This is where all such stories [?] from and these [??] the [?] I have ever seen in my life, and must have come from one of the richest mines ever heard of. But to my knowledge, no ore of similar quality has ever been found, and the Indian who gave the samples to Adams must be long since dead and the place he found the samples will probably never be found.

Adams didn't dare show any of the gold at that time he had stolen and buried. Therefore he and Davidson separated, Adams going to Pima, Arizona to obtain money and supplies from friends to outfit an expedition to later come back and salvage the gold. Davidson went on a supposed visit to see some relatives in Louisiana.

Adams was successful in his attempt to raise an expedition, and he sent for Davidson who returned from Louisiana and the expedition met him in Alma, a little town just south of Reserve. They could not find any gold, and Adams later made several solitary trips in search of it, but never had any luck.

Several expeditions have been organized and sent forth in an effort to find the Adams Diggings, but all have met with defeat. It was in 1918 that I decided to see if I couldn't find the bodies of the men who were massacred in Adams party. Adams had told me that they had camped about fifteen miles north of three peaks that rose up from the plain and were a considerable distance from any other mountains. I got to thinkin' and the only three peaks I knew of between Gallup and Magdalena, were the Tres Montosas, which are only about fifteen miles west of Magdalena. Figuring about fifteen or twenty miles north of there, I went to North Lake. A few miles north of North Lake, I found the bodies of five men, all buried in one hole. I could find no clue to any gold from anything in the vicinity, so I came back to town and reported the finding of the bodies. It is my belief that the bodies I found were the remains of part of Adams expedition, but of course I can't prove this. But there is one thing I do know. That is that an old fellow I know, found about twenty thousand dollars buried about five miles north of North Lake, and only a few miles from the place I discovered there bodies. This mans name is Jose Maria Jaramillo, and this what he told me. But when I asked him if the twenty thousand was in gold dust, he would not tell me.

That's the way a lot of there old, "rich-nice" stories get started," finished old Bob. "I've heard that the definition of a miner is a damn liar with a hole in the ground. And a prospector is a damn liar without anything but a dang good imagination. You can talk to most of 'em, and dang near ever' one of 'em tells you about some rich prospect they struck. But they're always broke and beggin' a grubstake. If their mines was half as rich as their imaginations, they could take a handpick, and a gold pan and make more money in a month than most bank presidents could by wearin' out a half a dozen fountains pens. It's true that sometimes a prospector does hit it rich, but when he does, he generally don't talk and brag on it, but gets busy and gets some capital interested and starts workin' it. That's my story of the Adams Diggings. It is one of the richest mines in the world in the mind of a danged old liar like I knowed Ed Adams to be, and in the minds of a bunch of old, dream-crazy prospectors who aint got no more sense than to believe in it."

Thank you Springfield for posting this! See? We can ALL stay home, it was all a story made up in the first place!

Of course one might wonder why Adams (if Ed was his first name) would bother to try to return to look for the mine, and the various stories of witnesses whom did not report seeing gold like this version, usually it was a single large nugget the size of an egg (goose egg, turkey egg, hens egg, quail egg etc). If Adams were simply attempting to retrieve a cache of gold that was alien to where it was hidden, why bother to enlist partners? One maybe sensible, or even two, but some of the parties were quite large, over a dozen men or even more. How many ways to divide a single cache of gold?

Thank you again for posting it, had not seen that one before. Perhaps it will save someone from getting lost in the wilderness too by just staying home!
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Thank you Springfield for posting this! See? We can ALL stay home, it was all a story made up in the first place!

Of course one might wonder why Adams (if Ed was his first name) would bother to try to return to look for the mine, and the various stories of witnesses whom did not report seeing gold like this version, usually it was a single large nugget the size of an egg (goose egg, turkey egg, hens egg, quail egg etc). If Adams were simply attempting to retrieve a cache of gold that was alien to where it was hidden, why bother to enlist partners? One maybe sensible, or even two, but some of the parties were quite large, over a dozen men or even more. How many ways to divide a single cache of gold?

Thank you again for posting it, had not seen that one before. Perhaps it will save someone from getting lost in the wilderness too by just staying home!
Oroblanco

C'mon, Oro, you know we can't explain LAD yarns! The biggest challenge is deciding which of the two dozen versions we favor - then we can focus on whatever conflicting details and discrepancies that confuse us. Heck, maybe one of the stories is true.

As far as the lost souls are concerned - the best story I've heard recently showcased some grown adults who got lost on the Gila River this summer. They began hiking downstream from their camp and figured they'd "just follow the river until it circled back to camp".

 

[Oroblanco]

C'mon, Oro, you know we can't explain LAD yarns! The biggest challenge is deciding which of the two dozen versions we favor - then we can focus on whatever conflicting details and discrepancies that confuse us. Heck, maybe one of the stories is true.

As far as the lost souls are concerned - the best story I've heard recently showcased some grown adults who got lost on the Gila River this summer. They began hiking downstream from their camp and figured they'd "just follow the river until it circled back to camp".

OK now I am confused, is that NOT what you have been wanting me (us) to say, perhaps I did not phrase it best? How about, we can all forget about the Lost Adams Diggings, it was a cover story for a theft? Isn't that what you have been driving at for so long? After all, isn't this kind of what you have been trying to tell us about all of these lost mine stories, that they are all just stories with no basis in fact?

Did you not just tell us that it was more than just speculation that the gold came from miners returning from California? I presumed from your statements that you are lending a lot of credence to Bob Lewis, and we could say then that the attempts by Adams to get back to the site was so that he could get the cache of gold from the CA miners, or am I getting a mistaken impression?

LOL at your story of the lost souls too - for I have done that very mistake myself; was hunting elk in the Bighorns and thought I could follow the little brook right back to camp, only to find myself way down into the middle of nowhere because the creek was NOT the same one that I had started on and to this day I don't know where that creek may "come out". It was well after dark and cold when I dragged my butt into camp that night.

I don't wish to just argue with you amigo, we used to have your friend Lamar here whom was always happy to banter against any and all treasure/lost mines stories, from your posts I have gotten the clear impression you are convinced the LAD never existed (along with the LDM and many others probably); as I do NOT have the Lost Adams Diggings in my possession there is no way for me to convince someone that it does exist, certainly not by arguing. If we try to sort out the stories, which would you dismiss, which would you lend weight to? I thought you had just shown us one story that supports your conclusions that it never existed.

Good luck and good hunting Springfield, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

OK now I am confused, is that NOT what you have been wanting me (us) to say, perhaps I did not phrase it best? How about, we can all forget about the Lost Adams Diggings, it was a cover story for a theft? Isn't that what you have been driving at for so long? After all, isn't this kind of what you have been trying to tell us about all of these lost mine stories, that they are all just stories with no basis in fact?

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything except that we should keep an open mind about these stories and allow that until proven or disproven, all options must remain on the table. Yes, the LAD may well be a cover story for other unidentified activities. It also may be a fabulous lost placer mine. If I knew, I'd say so. I don't know.

As far as 'all of these lost mine stories' go, most are disinformative due to human nature, either by intention or misunderstanding, IMO. That's why, if they exist, they're still lost - the truth is lacking. Your best tool is an honest understanding of human nature - how people act.

Did you not just tell us that it was more than just speculation that the gold came from miners returning from California? I presumed from your statements that you are lending a lot of credence to Bob Lewis, and we could say then that the attempts by Adams to get back to the site was so that he could get the cache of gold from the CA miners, or am I getting a mistaken impression?

Yes, it's more than speculation because of Lewis's direct testimony. It's an eyewitness account. Even so, I don't favor Lewis's version over any of the others because they're all documented testimony and as far as I'm concerned, until there's a solution, all are as possible as the rest. They obviously all can't be accurate, but ironically, it's also possible none of them are. I find the little-known versions by contemporaries, which vary considerably from the popular ones, very intriguing.

I don't wish to just argue with you amigo, we used to have your friend Lamar here whom was always happy to banter against any and all treasure/lost mines stories, from your posts I have gotten the clear impression you are convinced the LAD never existed (along with the LDM and many others probably); as I do NOT have the Lost Adams Diggings in my possession there is no way for me to convince someone that it does exist, certainly not by arguing. If we try to sort out the stories, which would you dismiss, which would you lend weight to? I thought you had just shown us one story that supports your conclusions that it never existed...

Lamar was certainly no friend of mine - just an apologist for the Jesuits.

As I mentioned above, I don't know the truth of the LAD. I've thought a lot about it and have explored a number of possible venues in years past. I think the odds are that Adams' tales are deceptive, covering other activities. I also admit there could be a lost gold deposit of some sort. If so, I favor a location in the Mogollon Mountains or Pinos Altos Range, with Ft. West being the Army fort. This includes portions of the Gila and San Francisco rivers and Bear Creek.

 

[Oroblanco]

My mistake - sorry about that and also sorry about saying "your friend" referring to Lamar, that was written as I would speak, not intended to be literally your pal. I know that he was trying to aggravate you on more than one occasion, but you kept your cool (better than I do!) Anyway thank you for clarifying, just didn't wish to waste your time further if you had settled the question of the Adams to your own satisfaction.

Good luck and good hunting Springfield, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. I think I will watch MacKenna's Gold and think about a particular place to visit next fall...
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

... Good luck and good hunting Springfield, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. I think I will watch MacKenna's Gold and think about a particular place to visit next fall...
Oroblanco

Oro try these hills if you get a chance.

 

[Oroblanco]

Never been there, sure looks interesting though!

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello gentlemen

Firstly I no conclusive opinion on the subject. However I have enjoyed the posts on the Topic.

So I have no opinion on the Following article. I only hope it is of some interest to some one.



Corp

 

[lastleg]

It's the little things about the legend that give me pause. The cabin in particular. It sounds like an
invention. A log? cabin to house them all? If the placer was so rich who would have time to set down
roots in Apache territory? Building a cabin would have required cabin building tools, no? Tents I can
imagine but a cabin I don't see as plausible. These characters were a tough breed used to sleeping
on the ground. Maybe some had prospecting skills but not all could have brought pans since they
weren't supposed to know beforehand that it was a rich placer and not lode gold. Course anyone can
pick up eggs like they did at Rich Hill. But that was fact not legend.

But say there was a cabin built and bunks and a fireplace and table and chairs built on site. Would that
not narrow the search area to places cabin logs grew leaving a vast area of the land of enchantment
unworthy of speculation?

 

[Springfield]

Hello gentlemen

Firstly I no conclusive opinion on the subject. However I have enjoyed the posts on the Topic.

So I have no opinion on the Following article. I only hope it is of some interest to some one.

Thanks for finding and posting the clipping, Corp. I know that Oro will be banging his head against the wall with what I have to say, but IMO this is a perfect example of a coded message published in a newspaper wrapped in a 'lost mine or hidden treasure' motif. I'll wager, if the pattern fits this case, that no other follow up articles are to be found. If one examines this 1897 story, not much of the prospectors' actions make sense of course, but that's not the point. The point is that 'there is gold near Four Corners' (the Navajo Reservation's CO/NM boundary begins at Four Corner and extends about 30 miles east). Tie this to the 'Lost Adams' and lots of folks listen.

Interestingly, the very same message was reinforced a generation later (an oft-repeated pattern), when the '17 Tons of Gold near Four Corners' rumors were released in the 1930's. Again, 'there is gold near Four Corners.' You can find all sorts of 'he said-she said' arguments about this one since the days of the internet, but of course, no resolution. But 17 tons of gold! 'Wow', say many people.

Now ... the bigger issue: why have these messages, disguised as 'lost mines and hidden treasures (which are never found)' been put into the public domain? This phenomena is one reason why, Oro, that I keep advising enthusiasts to be careful what they accept as factual. Newspaper articles, especially adventure articles like this one Corp provided, cannot be considered 'documentation.'

 

[Oroblanco]

Thanks for finding and posting the clipping, Corp. I know that Oro will be banging his head against the wall with what I have to say, but IMO this is a perfect example of a coded message published in a newspaper wrapped in a 'lost mine or hidden treasure' motif. I'll wager, if the pattern fits this case, that no other follow up articles are to be found. If one examines this 1897 story, not much of the prospectors' actions make sense of course, but that's not the point. The point is that 'there is gold near Four Corners' (the Navajo Reservation's CO/NM boundary begins at Four Corner and extends about 30 miles east). Tie this to the 'Lost Adams' and lots of folks listen.

Interestingly, the very same message was reinforced a generation later (an oft-repeated pattern), when the '17 Tons of Gold near Four Corners' rumors were released in the 1930's. Again, 'there is gold near Four Corners.' You can find all sorts of 'he said-she said' arguments about this one since the days of the internet, but of course, no resolution. But 17 tons of gold! 'Wow', say many people.

Now ... the bigger issue: why have these messages, disguised as 'lost mines and hidden treasures (which are never found)' been put into the public domain? This phenomena is one reason why, Oro, that I keep advising enthusiasts to be careful what they accept as factual. Newspaper articles, especially adventure articles like this one Corp provided, cannot be considered 'documentation.'

Springfield; Well maybe I can surprise you a little Springfield, for I have no doubt that some of the activities which were going on in the southwest in the Civil War and post war period, under cover of being "treasure hunting" was really KGC. The US Army certainly felt there were some kind of surreptitious activities going on too - they arrested one fellow at a famous silver mine in the southern part of the state shortly after the Union army regained control of the territory for this very reason. The silver mine was seized and taken away from him too. These activities clearly involved secreting out silver (and probably gold as well) to help the Southern cause, as well as smuggling arms and even fleeing Rebs <after the war> trying to get into Mexico and join Maximilian. So I would never rule that out, and your arguments have helped convince me that these activities were not just a single incident. I just don't see them in every lost mine story or lost treasure. In that time period, no one would have blinked an eye at seeing some armed men with pack animals, digging tools or explosives.

Corp (Amy) thank you for posting that article! I look forward to seeing more of your results, if and when you find time to share, thank you in advance.

Lastleg - I understand your points, have questioned the very same as well. What I found was that it does not take all that long to put up a log cabin, and for roofing in that day, it was common practice to simply put up a framework of poles, and stretch their tent canvas over it. A fireplace would have been a rather rude affair of stacked rocks mortared with mud. Not like the fishing lodge in Maine by any stretch of the imagination, almost certainly a dirt floor type of thing with walls to provide some kind of shelter against the elements, and possibly as a "fort" if attacked. These men were all prospectors except for Adams and Gotchear, they surely would have had prospecting equipment, as well as hand axes and even the old buck saw likely as well. They also had horses or mules, and you can skid logs very easily and fairly rapidly using horses to help. Even setting the logs in place, with a horse, two poles set as a ramp, and a rope, you can roll quite big logs up onto a wall quite easily. A couple of friends of mine put up a neat log cabin in a hollow in PA in two days, using only a Swede saw and a hatchet, with old shoe soles for door hinges and a mud-stick chimney on the fireplace. This was 14 by 16, with eight foot walls, of course most of the cabins you see which were built by pioneers often have six foot walls or even less. The logs would not have been hewn flat either, they were usually left in the round and moss or other filler simply packed into the spaces for chinking, or some would slap mud in there. I doubt that they would have even bothered to de-bark the logs.

All of that I just said is pure conjecture based on what I have seen done, and done myself as well; I put up a small cabin last winter at a camp in the mountains in New Mexico in one day using nothing but downed timber (dead from a fire) a Swede saw and hatchet, by myself, as the weather got bad and I was stranded there at the time. I did have a little help as the Huskies did not mind helping skid the logs to the camp, but they are not as strong as horses. My fireplace was just stone with no mud for mortar. I have a photo of it here somewhere and it worked well for me, of course this was fairly small (only 10 by 12 or so) but I don't think the Adams party would have built a huge mansion of a structure either, just something they could get out of the weather if needed. Anyway you can also whip up rde chairs, benches and a table using just split logs, stumps etc.

Also, the men that Adams met at Gila Bend prospecting, were placer miners, and Gotchear told them that he knew where they could pick up nuggets of gold bigger than the sand-sized colors they were panning, so they were certainly expecting to be led to a rich placer deposit and not a hard rock ledge. Anyway your point about the site would have to be where there were trees to make the cabin is absolutely correct, however there are pretty extensive forests in the higher elevations and even down in the valleys through most of the area where the Adams diggings could be located. Many people get a mistaken impression of the southwest as a vast treeless desert, when in truth Arizona for example, has more acres of forest than PA, which is over one half forest lands, and New Mexico has even more forest lands than Arizona. So while it does help to know that the Adams diggings are probably in a forested area, there are vast areas of forest to search.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, thank you again and I hope you all have a very pleasant evening.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Oroblanco

Here is some thing else you might find of interest.



Springfeild. I agree with your comment in part as there was a tenancy to over romaticise stories around the 1870 onwards, The Era when tabloid began to evolve with various newspapers. The quality of such article varies depending of each journalist. While I agree that it would be folly to rely 100% off any article. The same cane be said about books by so called authorities on such subjects and so called verbal history. A article is only as good as the information provided. but I beg to differ in part as Old newspapers do have their role except not as a sole reference tool. But as complimentary one and a vehicle for further research. One thing you will find at least is an example of what the rumors where back in the date of the publication. But to dismiss their uses as a research tool entirely is folly also.

Corp

 

[UncleMatt]

Jack Purcell brings up the Black Range Tales and relates the experiences of Jason Baxter, who talks about how the area of the LAD was destroyed by an earthquake. (Page 153, The Lost Adam Diggings: Myth, Mystery, and Madness) Forgive me if I have overlooked any previous mention of this, but that story was set in 1884. If true, that could easily explain why the advent of aviation and Google Earth haven't resulted in the LAD being rediscovered.

Great book by the way.

 

[lastleg]

Corporate Investigations:

Would you mind showing the following article "White Caps" and perhaps the date of publication.

Oroblanco:

Thanks for reply. I am very familiar with the topography and forests of NM and Arizona. One log cabin
I dug out in NW NM was only ten feet by eight feet. I had seen it numerous times on a ghost I had
permission to hunt and I just had to know if there might be another highgrade stash inside. Not this
time. The first one I found was at a nearby burned cabin site. So I can state emphatically that miners
did cache highgraded nuggets. There is also a bucket buried under a cottonwood somewhere in that
property in need of deliverance.

All that to say caches are out there but one needs to know why they are. The LAD search requires a
commitment I would not have the time or energy to explore. But would like to know if the legend
has legs.

All the best
lastleg

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Lastleg

My Apologies the Newspaper I posted Adams story above was Sacramento daily union 4 December 1889.

It seems the term White Cap must of caught your eye. I must admit I was intrigued? And they say curiosity killed the cat and you have sucked this feline in.

So thank you as I have learned something today of American history I did not know before, by following up your for request the White Capes story.



For clarification the article date white caps is the same date and newspaper mention above.

Corp

 

[lastleg]

Thanks Corp

I am confused about the white caps. I remember hearing of them at Las Vegas NM while researching
western outlaws and then recently I heard they were an offshoot of the KKK. This article seems to
support an anti-Catholicism viewpoint which was rampant during those times. LAMAR where art thou?