Looking for help - electrolysis destroyed item / what went wrong?

[usatc]

Hi thanks for looking and hope I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.


Recently I've been destroying my rusted artifacts. For example I had this item railroad wedge item. Quite heavy and crusty but solid. The first 12 hour soak yielded fantastic results and lettering (Avery & co) was becoming clearly visible and 80%ish of rust was gone (sorry no pics as checked in evening, turned lights on checked then put back in).

The next morning I was excited to see it and found a black sludgy mess. Think of it as an onion - it had lost 60% ish of all iron and almost all the words on the artifact sloughed off in chunks (the iron was coming off in layers like an onion). I did not misconnect the + and -. The liquid vaguely like tar. Nothing in the bath touched. I'm connecting my negative clip to a piece of the iron to be cleaned above electro line. The positive was connected to a sheet of graphite.


I was using a two gallon bucket and graphite / washing soda. I thought maybe the first pieces touched so now use a one gallon rectangular plastic tub. However I'm concerned as I have destroyed another piece of rusted junk test iron yesterday somehow. Same thing, rust came off but also chunks of iron. You can see the triangular crusted shape prior. Taking it out 24 hours later water was black and rust and iron coming off, like chips of an arrowhead. I personally brushed a piece of black flint like iron chipping (no rust, just iron) a straight edge. And I've done electrolysis when I started a few weeks ago on two similar broken farm implements - one came out beautifully the other not so much - but that was putting I could tell was already there.

Any help would be appreciated as I have a lot of iron artifacts I planned on cleaning but losing faith in my ability to do electroalysis. For this piece the first two settings didn't make any bubbles so I cranked it to 6v 12a. Could that high on a crusty item have caused the bubble reaction to damage it vs a lower setting to remove rust?


Thank you!

 

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[Jason in Enid]

The problem is your power source. A car battery charger is something you use to clean a cannon. You should have been using milliamp charger (like a cell phone charger). Second issue is that you have to make contact with CLEAN metal. Clipping it to the surface rust is a no-go.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

It actually sounds like you did everything correctly! It's great that you're using graphite for an anode too. Depending on the depth of the oxidation (rust), a piece may or may not preserve nicely. I process a LOT of iron and my tank runs almost continuously. Based on your before pictures, it looks like the lettering on the spike was in rough shape before you put it in the tank. Since I've run so much, I've gotten pretty good at telling the condition of a piece before I preserve it. There have been a couple cases where something really surprised me and I thought it was rough, but it was nearly pristine under the oxidation, but for the most part I can tell the condition based off what the oxidation looks like before preservation. I've had pieces where fine lettering or stamps are visible after preservation, and other times where there should be lettering, it is totally pitted. It really has to do with the condition of the piece before you put it in the tank.

It sounds like you jumped in feet first by using a sheet of graphite! I actually use graphite rods for anodes, but I used many different materials for years, before my setup evolved to what it is now. I can say the best material I have ever used is graphite though. It stays clean and conducts the electricity the most efficient.

Washing soda is the best electrolyte with about 1tbsp per gallon or so.

I use a 2/10/50 amp manual 12v car charger. I run it at 2 amps almost all the time, however I've left it on 10 amps overnight before. 2 amps is perfect and will lessen the anode wear. Running it on 10 amps will speed it up, but not 5 times better than 2 amps and you'll wear your graphite out faster. So run it on 2, but running it at 12a did not affect your piece.

In regards to your piece "touching" or getting "too close" to the graphite anode. If that happens, it'll just wear a mark in the graphite. I've had pieces too close to my rods and they'll prematurely wear a divot in the rod where the iron was too close.

Flakes and sheets of oxidation will come off and that's totally normal. After electrolysis I scrub my pieces with a wire hand brush to remove all the loose bits, before they go into a boiling wax pot, on a coleman stove in the driveway, to be dried and sealed.

I did a write-up on my electrolysis modifications a while ago. Its not a electrolysis 101 post, but some things I made to make my setup more efficient... I assumed the reader will already know the basics (as you do). You might be interested in making some of the c-clamps to connect the iron... it really takes the frustration out of getting a solid connection on the piece you're processing.

Here's a link to that post: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/cleaning-preservation/481085-electrolysis-setup-modifications.html

Keep at it and it'll be addicting. Some of my best relics are iron! I'm currently preserving some colonial iron for another member on here and just took two sheet iron cow bells out of the tank that look fantastic. You'll learn a lot by processing more and making some mistakes and soon you'll be able to tell how solid a piece is before you zap it.

 

[Patriot Relics]

I run the exact same electrolysis set up with the exception of carbon rods vs plate. I differ to Brad's expertise but typically run 10 amp for the first 2 hours to get things cooking and then 2 amp for the duration

 

[releventchair]

While it varies by object and condition ,there comes a point of diminishing returns.
Been there. When detail is as good as it is going to be ,and further electrolysis will make it worse; we can be on a slippery slope deciding.
Were all objects the same and in like condition ... it would be easy.

 

[NHBandit]

All I ever see is tips for electrolosis on here. And then guys commenting that it ruined their stuff. How critical it is to get everything just right, etc.. I have been a proponent of using Molasses instead for many years for many reasons. It won't eat your stuff.. Period. Yeah it takes longer so the guys who want instant results refuse to try it. It's an old antique car restoration technique that been used for many many years where you might be de-rusting engine parts that have critical tolerances and machined surfaces you want to retain. Not going to bother trying to explain how to do it though since it seems to always fall on deaf ears. if you're interested Google it...

 

[releventchair]

All I ever see is tips for electrolosis on here. And then guys commenting that it ruined their stuff. How critical it is to get everything just right, etc.. I have been a proponent of using Molasses instead for many years for many reasons. It won't eat your stuff.. Period. Yeah it takes longer so the guys who want instant results refuse to try it. It's an old antique car restoration technique that been used for many many years where you might be de-rusting engine parts that have critical tolerances and machined surfaces you want to retain. Not going to bother trying to explain how to do it though since it seems to always fall on deaf ears. if you're interested Google it...

Did watch vids years back of a guy cleaning car panels. Worked great.
Now , if could just keep my girlfriend from using the bathtub for a couple days......l.o.l..

 

[Icewing]

It's funny how one group says use carbon rods, but I always try to use carbon free stainless steel that is not magnetic. If it says stainless but sticks to a magnet or rusts like a Chinese pocket knife I don't use it. I've never had an issue with electrolysis ruining anything that wasn't already junk.

 

[villagenut]

Could it be that you got the annode and the cathode hooked up backwards? That would definitely have an adverse effect on the iron being conserved.

 

[NHBandit]

Railroad lanterns soaked in a molasses & water solution for 3 days. They had been completely covered from top to bottom with surface rust but not pitted prior to the molasses soak. Electrolysis would have removed the tin plating no matter how careful I was..

 

[Ahab8]

Brad (OutdoorAdv) was kind enough to do some iron for me and he knows his stuff! I wish I had before pics on this phone but I don't. I will post them when I get home but here's one of the afters. I was blown away. I will post the rest later.