Lue Map

[PatrickD]

Hi Lastleg,

I never heard of any incident in Florida. That doesn't mean it is false, just didn't hear of it. I know his place got broken into and a lot of stuff stolen in Segundo. This happened twice. The first time, some of it was recovered in Raton. The second time, the thieves burned his store down and he lost so much. I personally think that killed him a little inside. He was never the same after that.

Patrick

 

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[Barton]

Hello Crow,

Hardrock Hammond--was a good friend of Karl (KVM). In my opinion Hardrock Hammond ( it has been so long ago-- was a top rate aircraft engineer --
please excuse my poor memory. I am open to corrections from men who knew Karl )

Hardrock Hammond was involved in a number of activities with his good friend KVM.
For example they had a placer gold mining operation--and he may have been involved in the design of the Spartan Gold Dredge.
They did treasure hunting together as well.

Just my thoughts--offhand--hope they answered your question you made in post # 156 CROW

 

[Crow]

Hello Barton thanks for the answer.

Crow

 

[Spyro]

Llorro Urraca Enterarri

Hello LUE "Hunters"

As Patrick will tell you .. I joined TreasureNet for the explicit purpose to send Patrick a private message based on his posts pertaining to the LUE map.

You should know up front .. I'm not a professional "Treasure Hunter" as described by others in this Forum. Before I begin describing my research on the LUE, in the past I owned a scrap metal business and learned years ago you can make more money processing scrap electronic circuit boards or even collecting and selling used catalytic converters for Platinum recovery to scrap yards, then spending thousand of dollars hunting lost buried treasure, because that's what we did when I owned the scrap metal business.

With that in mind, I'm perplexed by the "mixing" of treasure lore in these posts, and the origin of the LUE treasure. For example, it is well known multiple Spanish expeditions northward into the America southwest, motivated by Jesuit legends was a "fools errand" for Coronado and others. So then, why would anyone attribute the LUE treasure to the Spanish or the Jesuits?

The LUE map, as well as other "Lost Treasure Legends" seems to stir one's imagination about stumbling onto lost Spanish treasure and becoming INSTANTLY RICH! In addition, I have never bought or own any of KVM's written material, but clues based on the research of others was helpful in solving the LUE puzzle.

Yes .. the LUE map is REAL. But step back a moment and consider the planning and logistics needed to acquire such a treasure. In addition, based on reading other posts and past articles written in treasure magazines, it seems as though one expects to make a trip to the LUE treasure location, dig a few feet in the ground with a spade or open a secret door to an underground tomb and WAHLAH .. the treasure is found and acquired.

But you and I know .. in REALITY that's NOT how it "works". So then, consider the planning and logistics necessary to acquire such a gold trove, when you discover it's location. Consider a gold cache so large .. you CAN'T MOVE IT! Based on the numbers one can deduce from the LUE map .. the gold cache is anywhere from 21 tons, 45 tons or 200 tons! Wouldn't it be wiser then, to acquire the property on which it is located?

 

[Spyro]

So then in solving the LUE Map .. three elements need to be considered: 1) the map needs a starting point and 2) to whom was it given and 3) for what purpose. Yes .. I read the various stories about Hitler transporting gold to America, but having a background in economics, the effect of liquidating such a gold cache would lower the price of gold and increase the value of the Dollar. Also, I read the various stories about the Knights Templar hiding their gold treasure as well.

So then when we began our research, we realized the LUE could be attributed to EITHER .. based on the symbol found at the starting point which is necessary to know, in order to decipher and follow the LUE map. And that symbol can be attributed to both the 3rd Reich or the Knights Templar, which is where I believe those aspects surrounding the LUE treasure began.

View attachment 1145778

 

[PatrickD]

Looks more like this:




(Erosion, after all.)

 

[PatrickD]

Another interesting picture of carvings on the sealed cache.

 

[Spyro]

To digress a moment .. yes .. I downloaded and read Chapter LIII in William Hurt's "The Scarlet Shadow", where an airship explosion due to a Goose eating explosives revealed a hidden cave dripping with gold, with nuggets the size of boulders. Also, I read where KVM moved to Segundo, Colorado for the sole purpose to find the lost cave. However, due to the mode of transportation described in the LUE map, we quickly concluded that Chapter LIII and the LUE map are not related.

View attachment 1145784

 

[Spyro]

So then, if the gold is not attributed to Spanish expeditions, Hitler smuggling gold into the U.S. in order to liquidate the gold and finance his war machine, and it's not attributed to the Knights Templar, then whom would be able to acquire such a cache of refined gold bricks AND have the capability to transport it?

If you know a little about American history, and the great expansion of the American west and the mode of transportation at the time, it can only be attributed to the person whose last name is derived from the word "Gold"; Jay Gould.

As you may know, Jay Gould was the primary share holder of the Union Pacific railroad, whom funded and pushed the expansion of rail lines through the Rockies westward to the Pacific coast. And you may also know, the history of Jay Gould cornering the gold market and the subsequent gold crash, known as "Black Friday, 1869". That true episode in American history can be read in the book by Kenneth Ackerman, "The Gold Ring; Jim Fisk, Jay Gould, and Black Friday, 1869", which you can probably find at your local public library.

In addition, if you research Jay Gould's life story .. he was an EXPERT surveyor. When he was barely a teenager, Jay Gould started his career as a SURVEYOR! Hence, the LUE map is a perfectly surveyed map showing where the treasure WAS located.

 

[Spyro]

So then .. as you may have discerned .. after spending valuable "resources" using "21st century technology"; i.e., satellite imagery, etc. and knowing the precise location described on the map, we've come to the conclusion that the LUE map treasure was REMOVED. In other words, the LUE map provided the precise bearings and the location for ONE CACHE from ONE location, whereas others state there are multiple locations described in the LUE map. And the purpose of the LUE map was to transport the treasure by airplane AWAY from it's location. In other words, our research showed the LUE map is an airplane flight plan.

In addition, before I describe each element in each quadrant of the LUE Map .. I'd like to describe our findings on the Llorro Urraca Enterarri anagram translated from the IAYATAM key. As I'm sure you know, a "key" is an encryption, like used today for electronic data encryption, known as the field of Cryptography. So then, at one point we were excited to decipher the message, which read: "Enter the train load of gold near the currant tree"

 

[Spyro]

In order to avoid being sued by the current landowner, I'm simply going to describe the directional elements contained in the LUE map. And, I'm going to be honest with you, the legend of the LUE describing a huge cache of gold was inspired by KVM's cryptic published map leaving little else to go with. So we really don't know for certain if IN FACT the LUE is a treasure map!

Consider this though: you are the owner of a HUGE cache of gold. How many maps would you make and to whom would you give it? My point is .. there is no actual record which states the LUE is ACTUALLY a gold cache, except as described when the anagram code is deciphered! However, that didn't stop us .. we were bound to find out!

Next, imagine this: consider you own the LUE gold cache and have employees or partners in whom you trust. Then, you call one of your trusted employees whom is a pilot into your office and hand them the LUE map, which contains flight instructions to the precise location.

With the LUE map lying on your desk, you tell your pilot,

"Here is your flight plan, which is divided into quadrants, so it's easy for you to follow. The right side of the plan shows your starting point and the runaway (identified with a 1) on which you will begin the trip. The left side describes the runway at your destination, shown by the 2. This little upside down triangle indicates that you use the 3 triangles it points to, to identify the distance you have to fly. As you can see, there is a circle in the first triangle indicating 100, the other two larger triangles contain 4 triangles, which means you have to fly 144 miles north to "XXXXXXX" (which is the visual location name shown in the green box). Once you pass that location, the landing runway, runway 2, will be ahead of you 1.75 miles"

You proceed to tell your pilot, "But first you have to start at "XXXXXXX" airport to start the trip," which was the airport location with the Maltese cross.

So then, the LUE map has to be dissected by quadrant to reveal specific flight instructions, starting with quadrant 1 in the lower right corner. If the LUE map is turned 90 degrees with arrow pointing upward and North, the LUE map fits the trigonometric construct with quadrant 1 in the top right. In addition, the LUE map tells you it is right next to a landing strip.

View attachment 1145884

 

[PatrickD]

Nope.

 

[Spyro]

Just curious Patrick .. what do you think the elements in the lower quadrant mean as well as the up and down vertical lines and the "arrowhead"? Heck .. you've studied the LUE map since 1990 .. you should have a precise answer by now. Any precise insight yet on the IAYATAM key?

Here's a snapshot of Tom Hinton's article from January / February 1970. He didn't find the LUE treasure.

"All I know is that I searched long and hard and good for five months, not counting the time spent on my research. I could find nothing to substantiate the claim of this treasure - and just a whole lot to condemn it"

View attachment 1145937

 

[markmar]

Spyro

Nice theory and I respect it , but ERUSAERT EUL EHT DNIF REVEN LLIW UOY WOH EVEILEB I .
Not encrypted , just reversed .

 

[Spyro]

Just curious markmark .. what do you believe the elements in the lower right quadrant and the arrowhead mean?

 

[Randy Bradford]

To digress a moment .. yes .. I downloaded and read Chapter LIII in William Hurt's "The Scarlet Shadow", where an airship explosion due to a Goose eating explosives revealed a hidden cave dripping with gold, with nuggets the size of boulders. Also, I read where KVM moved to Segundo, Colorado for the sole purpose to find the lost cave. However, due to the mode of transportation described in the LUE map, we quickly concluded that Chapter LIII and the LUE map are not related.

View attachment 1145784

Have to ask, in what way do you think the LUE refers to a mode of transportation?

Incidentally, Karl makes it clear that the LUE and the cave of gold are not the same thing, though he does not indicate they aren't somehow related. If oyu read between the lines, he indicates the LUE was attributed to a Spanish Padre. He likewise feels the cave of gold was being worked by the Spanish using the Natives as labor. It's not a stretch to think that the treasure of the Padre consisted of gold from the Cave of Gold.

 

[Randy Bradford]

So then .. as you may have discerned .. after spending valuable "resources" using "21st century technology"; i.e., satellite imagery, etc. and knowing the precise location described on the map, we've come to the conclusion that the LUE map treasure was REMOVED. In other words, the LUE map provided the precise bearings and the location for ONE CACHE from ONE location, whereas others state there are multiple locations described in the LUE map. And the purpose of the LUE map was to transport the treasure by airplane AWAY from it's location. In other words, our research showed the LUE map is an airplane flight plan.

In addition, before I describe each element in each quadrant of the LUE Map .. I'd like to describe our findings on the Llorro Urraca Enterarri anagram translated from the IAYATAM key. As I'm sure you know, a "key" is an encryption, like used today for electronic data encryption, known as the field of Cryptography. So then, at one point we were excited to decipher the message, which read: "Enter the train load of gold near the currant tree"

It is unlikely that the LUE map treasure has all been recovered, largely because the LUE map is not a map for a single site. It is likely that the site at Black Lake, NM was completely recovered but it is highly unlikely that all of the sites have been completely emptied. The number of sites is a question many people have attempted to answer and ranges anywhere from 7 to 11 to 15. ALSO, individual locations were not singular sites but places where multiple caches were stored.

So how do you feel the IAYAYAM code is used with the LUE anagram?

 

[markmar]

Spyro

Fold the triangles from the left to the right and when you will finish , you will have a big triangle and a smaller in a circle . After if you fold diagonally the map and you will see a different triangle which looks like the very small in the map bur with a circle and a triangle up side down .

All these mean : Use the small triangle to put the circle ( eye ) in the big triangle and you will find the entrance . Is what i have described about the Lue map in my previous post here .

 

[PatrickD]

Just curious Patrick .. what do you think the elements in the lower quadrant mean as well as the up and down vertical lines and the "arrowhead"? Heck .. you've studied the LUE map since 1990 .. you should have a precise answer by now. Any precise insight yet on the IAYATAM key?

It's IAYAYAM. And, no one would take 25 years of research and post it in a public forum like this.

As for the lower right quadrant? Hmmm, many peaks.

I posted awhile back that the top right quadrant is the best starting point but one must learn celestial navigation and how to triangulate a position using a sextant. Start with Polaris. Viola.

The only history that lines up with recorded fact is Spanish. This includes the carvings and markings found.

There was one curiosity on the sealed cache I found. There were symbols that included two I found to be contradictory. A templar shield and the Spanish Cross. As a land claim, it basically means it is owned by the crown and by the templar.

I once watched a sane man drive himself insane trying to resolve codes. I do know that KVM had a few cryptography and cypher books and many of what was written in old codes could be found in those books.

I must throw out a friendly discouragement message. Creating a hypothesis and putting it online instantly makes it a possible truth and adds to the treasure lore. But, there is a responsibility here to make sure what is put out makes sense. Otherwise, one just makes the water muddy for future hunters. None of us would appreciate being provided a fabricated path to chase.

I still challenge anyone with an alternate location theory of that map and how to interpret it. Use your own theory to interpret the map and ACTUALLY find something with that interpretation. Post some photos. Otherwise, it is just a guess.

Just sayin.

Patrick

 

[Spyro]

25 years and you can't tell me PRECISELY what the lower quadrant symbols mean? And .. you haven't figured out the IAYAYAM key? Did you ever pick up even an introductory textbook on Cryptography to learn and find out?

NOPE.

To thine own self be true Patrick .. there's nothing worse than lying to yourself. Be honest .. you never found anything of value attributed to the LUE map. And yes .. I saw your Mercator World article per multiple sites and lost Spanish treasure, even though the Spanish never found the gold they sought during their expeditions northward .. having to travel as far as Kansas in search of ANYTHING of value. Which they never found.

And markmark .. folding the trangles is equally as MEANINGLESS as stating the LUE is a Spanish treasure. It's non-sense and there's no history to indicate that. On the other hand .. Jay Gould owned VAST amounts of the region and purchased huge amounts of prospector gold. That's why he funded the rail lines and cornered the world gold supply. And to this day .. he's still measured as the 17th richest American's whom has ever lived! Then again .. what do I know. Go ahead and believe your folklore.

I wrote a longer diatribe describing the elements which indicate the markings are typical for a airplane flight map. The angles and markings are precise, especially the mileage and angles needed to make a landing after passing over the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. BUT .. I'll go no further .. since I realized I made a mistake joining this Forum. Folding the triangles is MEANINGLESS, as well as cutting up the LUE map in different fragments and gluing them together.

But .. before I go .. I'll tell you what the arrowhead means pointing north because you haven't even passed SQUARE ONE until you do. It's the name of a precise location. And remember .. like KVM said .. "two people have already figured out the LUE map". The cache isn't there anymore. So .. before you spend anymore time looking at the LUE map .. brush up on your surveying skills and your air plane flight knowledge .. or you'll continue to believe 200+ tons of gold was hidden in a cave near Trinidad, Colorado in 1559 by a band of golden helmeted Spaniards with a pack of mules carrying the gold cache, chased by an angry pack of Utes seeking to scalp them all.

Or worse .. that an Italian was forming a brigade of mercenaries who were going to fly state of the art dirigibles to overthrow the U.S. government .. but a goose swallowed the explosives and blew a huge crater in the ground .. revealing Montezuma's lost gold mine, as written in The Scarlet Shadow and peddled by KVM.

Lastly .. my brother in laws' Dad drove a huge Terex machine for Battle Mountain Gold in Nevada until the day he retired. So why aren't there any huge gold mining operations in New Mexico or Western Colorado? Because there isn't a viable commercial supply of gold bearing deposits in those states. And there never was.

Later!

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