Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail ! *New Info*

[Goodyguy]

Dear Mr. ,

Mayor Abramson has received your e-mail.

Metro Parks is researching issues surrounding metal detecting in our
public parks, and a new policy will be forthcoming.

It appears that state and national parks have banned the practice, and
with good reason. Digging holes in parks is not something we can
condone, and the removal of artifacts is prohibited by state laws
dealing with objects of antiquity. We understand that many people
operate metal detectors without the intent of causing harm, but it seems
that the best way to protect valuable public assets (both the parks and
the artifacts they contain) will be to follow the approach already taken
by state and national parks, which is to prohibit the practice except in
cases where a permit has been issued for research purposes by the state
archaeologist, with all artifacts being turned over to Metro Parks or
the state archaeologist, as appropriate.

Thank you for taking the time to write.


*Here is the Latest New Info*

Policy on Use of Metal Detectors in Louisville/Jefferson County Metro Parks

The mission of Metro Parks includes “protecting these lands and resources for future generations.” In fulfillment of mission, it is the policy of Metro Parks to prohibit removal of any cultural objects of an archeological, historical, or antiquarian nature.
It is our policy to regard such cultural objects as the property of all the people of the Commonwealth and to regard the appropriation of such cultural objects by individuals as inappropriate and criminal.

The Kentucky Revised Statutes, Chapter 164, Sections 705 through 735, lay out the policies of the Commonwealth with regard to the preservation of antiquities, clarify the application of these policies to the political subdivisions and municipalities of the Commonwealth, and require a permit issued by the State Archeologist to explore, excavate, appropriate or remove objects of antiquity from the public lands of the Commonwealth including those of its political subdivisions.

There being no reliable method to predict whether an object located by a metal detector is an object of antiquity, until it is excavated, Metro Parks prohibits the private use of metal detectors on the lands under its management.

Metro Parks will authorize the use of metal detectors for certain public purposes: by utility company employees and contractors to locate underground utilities; by department staff to locate survey pins, irrigation pipes and other metal objects pertaining to the work of the department; by law enforcement personnel in performance of their responsibilities.

 

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[seger98]

Re: Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail !!!

I doubt there will be much that is going to be done to change their minds there!

 

[desertfox]

Re: Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail !!!

Another "Dead End" so far on people that have no clue! Let's hope his/her office gets hammered with enough emails and phone calls this week to change a few minds. The Archie's have struck again.

 

[JimmyT]

Re: Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail !!!

Buddy in my opinion that's just how arrogant these people are. Yet yesterday on the news the mayor was crying because tourism is down and need to do more to bring people back to KY. Politics as usual the right hand don't have a clue what the left hand is doing. I know most of the hunters here don't know Coach Rick Pitino ( Past UK basketball head coach and now UL's head coach )but a year or so ago he said that Ky. had the most backwards politics he had ever had to deal with. I tend to agree with him.

Later Jimmy

 

[RelicHunterSantise]

Re: Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail !!!

I don't even know what to say.

How uneducated!

 

[1320]

Re: Mayors ridiculous response to my e-mail !!!

I understand that the response from the Mayor's office wasn't the preferred answer but it does sound like to me that perhaps they might be taking another look at the issue. I did get a laugh at how they stood behind state and national park precedence as justification. And I'm not so sure that the word "antiquity" really applies to any parcel of land in the United States, sounds like someone has been watching too much History Channel.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

That statement falls in line perfectly, with what Mr. O said quite awhile ago.

The 'powers that be' want to just preserve everything - put it in a glass dome, with a 'do not touch' mentality. Put it all in a glass dome and charge the public to 'see' it once in awhile.

The fact that NOTHING can be found - of historic importance or not - while it is still in the ground and not detected, is a concept that they cannot understand.

They would rather it rot there and be lost forever, than for YOU or ME find it - or touch it.

The mentality is real. It's everywhere. Public land is only for certain people.

B

 

[Copperhead]

Things don't seem to be looking very good here...Just keeping quiet and trying to stay out of the spotlight may work for awhile....But it's just a matter of time until somebody else that doesn't like what we're doing complains and starts the ball rolling downhill everywhere.. Has anyone seriously proposed copying the laws they have on the other side of the pond.....such as UK I believe?..

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Frankly, the time to get politically involved is almost past. If we, as treasure hunters - and other users of the public lands that the "elite" don't want there, don't start doing something, besides writing letters, we won't have a hobby anymore.

They are not only banning metal detecting - I have noticed at least 3 places (walk in only, before), is now, walk in only - and also - no horses and no dogs. (3 fishing spots). Apparently, the organic material left by horses and dogs is ruining their hiking trail events.

It's worse than alot of people think.

B

 

[Commoncents]

I think we may be missing the bigger picture here in KY

Every time this subject comes up, whether it be on a local level or state level, you will see it always refers back to the Ky statute for antiquities preservation. What it comes down to is that the statute is outdated and as written, is too open to interpretation. Here is an example:

164.715 Prohibition. No person shall willfully injure, destroy or deface any archaeological site or object of antiquity situated on lands owned or leased by the Commonwealth or any state agency or any political subdivision or municipal corporation of the Commonwealth. History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 3.

Although it clearly is intended to protect historical areas, they (KHC) are twisting it to keep anyone from detecting, or even picking up items from public parks, etc.

My opinion on what is happening here is that, since the House Bill 114 (which will make this apply to private land as well, and is being proposed again as we speak) has not made much headway, the KHC among others, are starting to pressure local municipalities to enforce this outdated law hoping others will follow suite, thus chipping away slowly at the entire state. Clearly it needs to be clarified and more specifically written to allow modern day responsible metal detectorists to enjoy our hobby while being allowed to continue to detect public parks and pick up loose change, rings, and an occasional old coin. I don't think these items would be a detriment to "the scientific study of historic or prehistoric human life and activities".

This is all a power trip. We need to take this up a notch in our state government and try to have the Statute amended to be more specifically aimed at protecting bonafide historical areas, rather to be used as a tool to keep everyone out of the parks.

more Statute info:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/164-00/CHAPTER.HTM

http://heritage.ky.gov/

 

[done dug it all up]

That sucks.

 

[birds5]

I got the same email from mayor Abramson office yesterday. The mayor may just want the parks to himself and his buddies to metal detect in to help balance the metro shortage of money.

 

[weldermark]

you can thank senator Meeks and the archies that lobby him and Jerry,(or should i say paid off).
and the bad part is that this is only the beginning,the bill also covers other property's,such as private property,so if you dig up a relic out of your yard that is 100 year's or older,you are required to turn it over to the city.

Mark

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Hope you guys there are ready for a lawsuit (maybe you need to start a fund now).

The government has no constitutional right to make you give up what is on your private land (as far as artifacts, metal detecting, etc.).
They can ask you to let them re-bury any remains found, but that's about it.

If that bill manages to become law, as written - it needs to go to court - it can be a disaster for every single person on every single inch of private land in this country. They will use it as a precedent.

I cannot find the exact wording where it talks about private land, though.

B

 

[NGE]

I think it STINKS to high Heaven, just wait til they try to find a murder weapon by eyeballing it, or when one of those politishuns lose something and it takes forever to find, if at all. By the way, I found this somewhere on the internet, hope it is appropriate.......NGE

 

[Lookin]

I received the same "canned" response, which is disappointing. The points I attempted to make in the e-mail I sent were not addressed, which makes me wonder if it was even read?? Because it was another "metal detector" e-mail, the ol' canned response was copied and pasted to be sent out. Again, disappointing.

I guess we'll have to start the "No more golf holes/tree stump grinding/water line repair/etc on Louisville Parks property" campaign. What is good for the goose ought to be good for the gander....

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

What's the local newspaper around there? Start with a letter to the editor, and, make sure you ask your questions in the letter.

Do the same in the nearest large paper. Tell them, in a letter to the editor that "this" is what you wrote in your local paper (include copy, word for word), and have gotten no response.

That should start the ball rolling.

Also, do you have a local town council or something similar. Ask them to schedule you at their next meeting to speak, and, repeat your concerns - and bring several copies of your list of people who support your cause, to pass around. (along with the good things we do for our communities - get rid of trash, etc.).

You'll either get a few people ticked off, or you will get supporters - but, either way, you will bring the issue to the forefront. Writing to the one guy is good, but, I wonder how many other citizens of your town even know what its really all about?

B

 

[weldermark]

here's all i've found in the new's,and that was by luck ??




http://www.wlky.com/news/18727654/detail.html

http://www.wlky.com/video/18730523/index.html


mark

 

[weldermark]

Hope you guys there are ready for a lawsuit (maybe you need to start a fund now).

The government has no constitutional right to make you give up what is on your private land (as far as artifacts, metal detecting, etc.).
They can ask you to let them re-bury any remains found, but that's about it.

If that bill manages to become law, as written - it needs to go to court - it can be a disaster for every single person on every single inch of private land in this country. They will use it as a precedent.

I cannot find the exact wording where it talks about private land, though.

B

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/09RS/HB114.htm



i'm not a lawyer so i'm not certain as to the exact content ,although i've been right so far,and i also spoke with my senator who said that it includes private property also



mark

 

[Goodyguy]

Here is a good response to the Mayor


Honorable Mayor Abramson:

I received you email response with the standard redirect of a politician that has made up their mind to do something and not get all the facts. One of the life bloods of a City is tourists. Louisville is geared for that and I have enjoyed your town several times in the past. I took the time to read your biography and you sound like a person that wants to be a good public servant and do the right thing for your community. Taking away a right to enjoy public lands without a hearing is very unlike you and your reasoning is not understood by me and others that enjoy a wonderful family hobby, metal detecting. I have been metal detecting in my home town of Brighton, Colorado for close to forty years. I have found the mayors lost wedding band with my metal detector, a councilman's lost ruby ring, and newly weds wedding ring that was lost in our park because it was sized to large. The list goes on with the finding of a 1904 dog tag in the City Hall grass. That is in the city hall display case. I am the first to protect my public parks and I am a retired Police Chief and know there is laws first hand to protect public parks from criminals that destroy it. I will continue by saying, if you do away with metal detecting as you want, what would happen if your wife losses her wedding band in your park, now you ask a person like me to find it, who is the law violator and criminal?

There is no reason for your city parks to ban the use of metal detectors. This is another way for elected officials that serve and protect the rights of their citizens to show their power to a few special interest groups. Metal detector don't damage property people do. Federal, State and local governments have laws to punish people that dig and destroy public property. Why not enforce those laws on the books to protect your public lands. If 38 states in America allow metal detector use in their state parks and the Army Corps of Engineers have allowed it in designated recreational areas of their lands since 1989 and if both also share the same concerns as you of their archeological or historical significant areas within the lands they oversee--yet can designate areas to allow the activity in public use areas--then so can you! The Antiquities Code in most States are very clear on what can and cannot be done under the statutes. Our attorneys can provide you the main statutes with emphasis of the pertinent provisions.

"Basically, the Antiquities Code cannot be used to prohibit any activity on any State, County or other State Subdivision Lands UNLESS a Landmark Designation has been made by the State Commission." " A "willy nilly" statement that metal detecting on these lands is prohibited under the Antiquities Code is simply incorrect and may be ignored or challenged in court." Such designations must be proven with Historical surveys' and or digs on such lands

We request to see copies of these designations made on each park area that you have banned the activity of use of metal detectors, please. Give your citizens the opportunity to go before the town council and public to provide some input before you make laws that do nothing but make criminals out of a group of law abiding citizens like me. Please take the time to go to this web site and check out a hobby that does nothing but promote good clean family fun.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter,

James Fariello
Vice President
World Wide Association of Treasure Seekers