Melted Spanish Reales?

Bigcypresshunter · Jul 8, 2015

A friend has found some melted metal blobs on the beach and he believes some of them are melted Spanish Reales from a burning shipwreck. His acid tests may show a low percentage silver. Has anyone ever found any melted Spanish Reales? Are any mixed with any other metals and what percentage silver did they test? Just wondering. Thanks.

aquanut · Jul 9, 2015

Pegleg showed me an old iron pot with about two ounces of high grade silver still in the bottom. He believed they were reales from the 1715 fleet and were melted by the Ais Indians. He also showed me 22 gold escudos that were hammered down pretty flat, but you could still see the cross and a few markings. All were found in the same place along the Indian River near the shipwrecks.

ARC · Jul 9, 2015

Copper... was other metal used.

From Wikipedia:
An eight-real coin nominally weighed 550.209 Spanish grains, which is 423.900 troy/avoirdupois grains (0.883125 troy ounce or 27.468 grams), .93055 fine: so contained 0.821791 troy ounce (25.560 grams) fine silver. Its weight and purity varied significantly between mints and over the centuries.

Might enjoy this read...
I did.

Colonial Coins - Section Contents

TreasureCDave · Jul 9, 2015

ARRC said:
Might enjoy this read...
I did.

Colonial Coins - Section Contents

Yes, that is packed with info - thanks. I also learned a bunch from Shipwreck and Their Coins the 1715 Fleet by Ernie Richards.

Mackaydon · Jul 9, 2015

BCH,
The silver composition of the reales changed after 1728 to 91.7% from 93.1%.
That info might help date the 'blob' if your friend's find are only melted reales.
Don.......
PS: Welcome back; again.

Bigcypresshunter · Jul 9, 2015

aquanut said:
Pegleg showed me an old iron pot with about two ounces of high grade silver still in the bottom. He believed they were reales from the 1715 fleet and were melted by the Ais Indians. He also showed me 22 gold escudos that were hammered down pretty flat, but you could still see the cross and a few markings. All were found in the same place along the Indian River near the shipwrecks.

Yes thanks Aquanut, I remember that and I still have the pictures on my old tower. I didnt know he found 22 gold doubloons. Wow! Thats the only time I ever remember melted Spanish coins posted online. Yes its well known that the Ais and Calusa Indians melted and hammered coins into other shapes. Any other example of melted silver coins found on the beach?

Bigcypresshunter · Jul 9, 2015

Mackaydon said:
BCH,
The silver composition of the reales changed after 1728 to 91.7% from 93.1%.
That info might help date the 'blob' if your friend's find are only melted reales.
Don.......
PS: Welcome back; again.

Hello Mack. The last information I received was some of his melted blobs test a low percentage silver. He believes the impurities of sand and wood would be lowering the acid test results.

Bigcypresshunter · Jul 9, 2015

ARRC said:
Copper... was other metal used.

From Wikipedia:
An eight-real coin nominally weighed 550.209 Spanish grains, which is 423.900 troy/avoirdupois grains (0.883125 troy ounce or 27.468 grams), .93055 fine: so contained 0.821791 troy ounce (25.560 grams) fine silver. Its weight and purity varied significantly between mints and over the centuries.

Might enjoy this read...
I did.

Colonial Coins - Section Contents

I read that thanks

Bigcypresshunter · Jul 9, 2015

aquanut said:
Pegleg showed me an old iron pot with about two ounces of high grade silver still in the bottom. He believed they were reales from the 1715 fleet and were melted by the Ais Indians. He also showed me 22 gold escudos that were hammered down pretty flat, but you could still see the cross and a few markings. All were found in the same place along the Indian River near the shipwrecks.

Do you remember what percent silver these tested at aquanut?

enrada · Jul 9, 2015

I have a P of 8 that came of the Gilt Dragon 1656. I had it on a silver chain and it had broken so I had it in a jacket pocket in the closet. My house burnt down and in the ashes I found the P of 8 with no chain attached to it. Apart from being black the coin turned out fine and the silver chain was melted and gone.

huntsman53 · Jul 9, 2015

This post is cross-posted on another Thread but since it is relevant to the question and may be helpful to others when testing fire melted Silver Coins (Spanish Reales or other), I felt it relevant to post it here as well!

I want to point out an important point when it comes to testing fire melted Silver coins that are less than pure and contain Copper. When a Silver coin containing Copper it in is melted by fire, most often the Copper is brought more to the surface of the coin or in this case the blob. Therefore, when testing for Silver and/or it's purity, the test is almost always skewed by the Copper being present.

Frank

P.S. It is also possible that fire melted Silver coins could become mixed with or contaminated by other metals that are in close proximity to them when they were melted in a fire which will skew any tests for purity even further.

aquanut · Jul 10, 2015

Bigcypresshunter said:
Do you remember what percent silver these tested at aquanut?

View attachment 1185156 View attachment 1185157 View attachment 1185154

I'm afraid not. It was quite a while back when he showed me the stuff over at his house. He had a few other interesting items as well. I miss the guy. We had a good time on some hunts.

Bigcypresshunter · Aug 13, 2015

huntsman53 said:
This post is cross-posted on another Thread but since it is relevant to the question and may be helpful to others when testing fire melted Silver Coins (Spanish Reales or other), I felt it relevant to post it here as well!

I want to point out an important point when it comes to testing fire melted Silver coins that are less than pure and contain Copper. When a Silver coin containing Copper it in is melted by fire, most often the Copper is brought more to the surface of the coin or in this case the blob. Therefore, when testing for Silver and/or it's purity, the test is almost always skewed by the Copper being present.

Frank

P.S. It is also possible that fire melted Silver coins could become mixed with or contaminated by other metals that are in close proximity to them when they were melted in a fire which will skew any tests for purity even further.

Update: Well I had a chance to see photos of the items in question and it turns out the coins are not melted at all. They are simply eaten by saltwater and wave action. However I havent found a way to positively identify them as reales because there are no markings visible and even the diameter appears to have deteriorated because they are slightly different sizes. But they look interesting. Thanks for the help.

Trez · Aug 15, 2015

Bigcypress,
Can you post a photo ? Maybe we can get you some more answers.
Trez

Bigcypresshunter · Aug 15, 2015

Trez said:
Bigcypress,
Can you post a photo ? Maybe we can get you some more answers.
Trez

Hello Trez. Long time. The finder is not really a friend just another TN member that I was trying to help.. He has also found Platinum. The pictures are here. Some silver pieces are smashed on a string but the string may be nylon. The silver coins are a tad larger than a US dime. The thread has gone downhill and I think the chances of a positive ID have gone downhill with it. Although its interesting, I have given up trying to help. But here it is. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/472669-platinum-pieces.html

Crispin · Aug 16, 2015

Thanks to BigCypress for his help in this. The coins pictured above are not the ones I think were melted or altered in any way. There has been some speculation that these pieces of metal may have been 1/2 reales. I would appreciate what you guys think. They have been tested and are all positive for silver. I was able to unfold two out of the four. At some point in time they were put on a nylon string.

Crispin · Aug 16, 2015

Another floating theory is that they were once Spanish Reales traded to Native Americans at a Spanish port in the Gulf of Mexico and the Indians then altered the coins in some way. How they later ended up on a piece of Nylon is beyond any solid explanation.

Crispin · Aug 16, 2015

Opened up a third and took some more pictures of two of the flatter ones. On the less flat one you can see recent indentations from my needle nose pliers that I needed to use. Almost stopped half way through doing it but some damage had already been done so I went all the way.