Minelab sues Deus

[Deft Tones]

My money is on the app end of it!

Check out the GoFind app features and compare to what XP planned.

 

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[Welgund]

If XP stole technology from minelab to complete there upgrade or app program then I can see the reason for the suit. If this is a "you can't invent a detector that transfers data back and forth from another device etc". Is crap if that's the case. The lawsuit is in the US under US patent laws so if minelab was to win than people outside the US could get the upgrade and we here in the US are SoL. If that's the case I will never by a minelab machine again.

 

[Deft Tones]

If XP stole technology from minelab to complete there upgrade or app program then I can see the reason for the suit. If this is a "you can't invent a detector that transfers data back and forth from another device etc". Is crap if that's the case. The lawsuit is in the US under US patent laws so if minelab was to win than people outside the US could get the upgrade and we here in the US are SoL. If that's the case I will never by a minelab machine again.

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one in the bedroom....somebody getting screwed!

But seriously, I think there are trade agreements and treaties that might kill it almost everywhere. Lots of leverage in U.S. Courts. Otherwise, if I were XP I'd just put it out to market everywhere else. Something is stopping them and it's not a language bug or pinpointer bug. IMO.

 

[Xraywolf]

Offhand it would seem impossible to release an upgrade to the world at large via http and leave out the USA somehow.

So if the upgrade is in contention, then it would probably be all or nothing.

If Minelabs case is legit, would suck for XP owners obviously, but easy to see why they would protect their rights like any company would. I have barely got to use the stock existing XP, so no upgrade would not inconvenience me too badly, but being a gadget fiend I have been eyeballing the new PP. Would seem likely they could release that without infringing, then again maybe thats at the heart of the "transmit and storage" thing.

 

[seekerGH]

The patent https://www.google.com.au/patents/U...ved=0ahUKEwi2s9Sb6sXRAhWBk5QKHSDCCTsQ6AEIGTAA

10. A method for operating ametal detector of a type which includes the ability to select values of operating parameters and to store such values as data, the method including the steps of:

a. receiving operating parameter data via an electronic transmission link from a data source external to the metal detector, the operating parameter data being a set of values of operating parameters,

b. storing the operating parameter data in an electronic memory within the metal detector, and

c. modifying the operating parameters of the metal detector to conform to the set of values of operating parameters specified by the operating parameter data, wherein the electronic transmission link includes a wireless connection transmitting through space between the metal detector and the external data source.




Not sure how a wireless connection between electronic and/or data is a defensible patent. Does this mean that other detectors with wireless headphones are in violation? That is data transfer through a wireless connection. (love the lack of spell check in the patent!)

Seems like many detectors can download the stored data to a computer, with a cable and/or wireless.

So Deus has a detector that has a wireless coil, headphones, etc., that they also state is patented...

The lawsuit: https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12198420

12. XP and Detector are contributorily infringing and inducing the infringement of at least claim 10 of the ’586 patent. XP and Detector will continue to infringe the ’586 patent unless enjoined by this Court.
13. XP is manufacturing, using, selling and/or offering to sell the DEUS metal detector which can be operated in a manner where data stored in the metal detector can be modified by data stored in an external source. XP advertises its DEUS product with specific instructions for its customers to operate the DEUS product in a manner that infringes at least claim 10 of the ’586 patent.



The real issue... the use of a wireless headset! and the use of a remote control!

...."For example, XP and Detector have been and continue to actively induce this infringing activity by encouraging and instructing customers to use the DEUS headset and remote control features so as to directly infringe the ’586 patent. By encouraging and instructing its customers to do so knowing that this use will directly infringe the ’586 patent, or remaining willfully blind to this fact, XP and Detector specifically intend to cause direct infringement of the ’586 patent...."


So it is the use of a wireless headset?!?!?! About a remote on/off switch....hmmmm, a bit of a stretch...

since the entire detector is wireless, would have to see the patent they were issued to see what governs, especially with filing dates...as ML has the US 7310586 B2 (2007) (which added wired/wireless data transfer) , but also registered it as US 20050062476 A1 (2005)

in effect, ML only states that it has infringed, but gives little specifics on what feature(s) in the XP detector infringe, just blanket statements. This is interesting in my opinion. It appears that ML sent the warning back in early 2016, so perhaps XP decided it was not really an issue...lawsuit, well...
(A jury trial on a patent case, oh the drama!)

EDIT:

Also named is as a defendant is DEC, http://www.metaldetector.com/

 

[Keppy]

I will say one thing there are sure a lot Monday morning Quarterbacks here . And all are playing Attorney ..

 

[Xraywolf]

I will say one thing there are sure a lot Monday morning Quarterbacks here . And all are playing Attorney ..

2nd time you've said that today, you do have the option not to view this thread if you've nothing to contribute but puny barbs.

 

[Keppy]

2nd time you've said that today, you do have the option not to view this thread if you've nothing to contribute but puny barbs.

did i hurt your feelings .. sorry

 

[Xraywolf]

did i hurt your feelings .. sorry

Oh yes, don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight because of your puny little barbs.

No one here AFAIK has [so far] claimed to be a legal professional, quite the contrary if you have bothered to read the thread.
We are interested parties who have spent many $1,000's between us on a product, this is an issue that affects us. There is scant info, if you don't like us speculating then tough **** for you I guess.

 

[jadocs]

I doubt it's the app. Have you guys downloaded it? It's generic as can be. I see no option in the app that suggests it will be able to connect to the deus.

 

[rick67]

I doubt it's the app. Have you guys downloaded it? It's generic as can be. I see no option in the app that suggests it will be able to connect to the deus.

XP mentions the app in 4.0.

The app has a place to insert a code for Deus users for the paid upgraded version. Your phone being The link between the two.

The app hasn't worked in months and no one currently answering e-mails.

 

[Deft Tones]

Google "XP Go detect"

Another forum someone was smart enough to grab a screenshot from over one year ago. This is about when I also DL the app to my tablet.

See any similar app description with XP/go-detect today? NONE!

I've installed the same app in October on my phone (different device) and the app has been significantly revised.

Put all my money on the app end!

 

[Deft Tones]

You guys. Many detectors "store data"... like remembers your last settings....that's technically stored data. I don't see a problem there but I may be wrong.

I see a problem with the detector storing or transmitting data between the machine and an external source...like a smartphone.

Anyone else besides Minelab currently offering same? Data specific to detector settings transmitted to external device?

I know of none.

 

[Deft Tones]

The real issue... the use of a wireless headset! and the use of a remote control!

...."For example, XP and Detector have been and continue to actively induce this infringing activity by encouraging and instructing customers to use the DEUS headset and remote control features so as to directly infringe the ’586 patent. By encouraging and instructing its customers to do so knowing that this use will directly infringe the ’586 patent, or remaining willfully blind to this fact, XP and Detector specifically intend to cause direct infringement of the ’586 patent...."

Just from that quote and to me...

It reads like ML is giving an example to the Court of how XP has been, and continues to infringe on what ML sees as its IP. Perhaps a suit has been filed in the past (or threatened) and this is being used as an example of continual willful patent infringement by XP. Have the wireless remote and wireless headphone controllers already been in dispute? Seems more likely now than ever.

 

[Deft Tones]

More jelling from things I've read....

ML Corporate announced Depkar(sp?) as a regional Dist. in mid-to-late 2015 approximately one year later ML Corp. makes another public announcement severing ties to Depkar. Around the same time (late 2016 and think Gold Rally) XP drops the ball...and not a peep since. Depkar announces stripped down version of Deus to market soon thereafter.

Maybe I'm just seeing things wrong.

 

[waynedig]

Minelab owns the "invention" of "data storage via a metal detector"... regardless of how another detector company does the same thing.

I think the "keY" to this lawsuit is going to primarily fall on the "storage itself" not the "how" part. but ?

So... in essence... Any other detector that "stores data"... would be infringing on Minelab.

Period.

Dues will have to pay ML for "use" of minelabs idea to continue using it should ML win this... which I think they would.

Not necessarily. XP could challenge the patent and a court could over rule the patent, allowing XP to continue doing what they are doing without penalty.

 

[jadocs]

Good thing I have two of them then.

 

[jadocs]

XP mentions the app in 4.0.

The app has a place to insert a code for Deus users for the paid upgraded version. Your phone being The link between the two.

The app hasn't worked in months and no one currently answering e-mails.

Yeah I remember that. I downloaded the app as soon as it was announced. I purposely looked for the option to enter a code (to support v.4 when it comes out), and I never saw it.

 

[jadocs]

More jelling from things I've read....

ML Corporate announced Depkar(sp?) as a regional Dist. in mid-to-late 2015 approximately one year later ML Corp. makes another public announcement severing ties to Depkar. Around the same time (late 2016 and think Gold Rally) XP drops the ball...and not a peep since. Depkar announces stripped down version of Deus to market soon thereafter.

Maybe I'm just seeing things wrong.

It still stores data albeit for gold programs.

 

[Deft Tones]

Not necessarily. XP could challenge the patent and a court could over rule the patent, allowing XP to continue doing what they are doing without penalty.

If that happens then an injunction will be awarded, XP will be hurt (lost R&D, Marketing $ Etc.), the case will take a decade or longer to trickle through the system, and in the end technology will render the Deus obsolete, and if XP's lucky still in the game.

Looks corporate tit-for-tat going on.

A storm is brewing.