More Forbidden Archaeology (?)
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uniface
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That's the $64,000 Question, as I see it, RGINN.RGINN said:
The problem is, it cuts both ways.
The archaeological mafia has been insisting for well over 100 years that (1) everyone who ever lived here was a "Native American," and that (2) the Native Americans all came from a group of hunters who followed a herd of Mammoths across a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska during the last ice age.
This second contention has fallen completely apart by now -- people are laughing at it. By this point, the remaining argument isn't about whether this is true, or even could be. It can't be, because there is too much accumulated evidence that people were living here before that time, and were too numerous and distributed throughout both North and South America during it. The last-ditch stand is now that the "evidence" doesn't satisfy them because it doesn't meet the criteria they've set up especially for it (criteria that evidence for what they believe doesn't have to meet).
Their first point doesn't really hold up either. On the surface of it, it looks like the archaeological mafia is sticking up for the integrity and dignity of the Native Americans, characterising anyone who disagrees with them as a bunch of ethno-centric racists. And while I won't accuse them of deliberately trying to manufacture a Red Man vs. White Man "issue," they have most certainly played along with it by making an elaborate show of kissing up to one side of it for purely political reasons, and doing their best to suppress anything that contradicts this.
Get beneath the surface of this, however, and it's obvious who the ethno-centric racists are. I'll give you one example of this I'm familiar with, and you judge for yourself.
When I was in my teens, I had the privilege of knowing "George Applegate" (his government name). He was a Susquehannock who (and I suspect this will ring a bell with you, being traditional) had been through all seven rooms in each of the seven lodges. It was to him, by the way, that the message was delivered that the first modern-day Continental Conclave of Native Americans should be convened. He made the announcement to the people involved (having stepped out of the economic rat race years before to do as the spirit led him, full-time) by sending them post cards.
I asked him once where the Susquehannocks had come from. He told me, "From the east. Over the water."
Does the archaeological mafia recognise and value the traditional knowledge of the Native Americans ? Do they give it a place of respect in their accounts of them ? Or do they laugh up their sleeves at them in private ? Sure, they insist that any technology that turns up here (when they aren't erasing evidence of it or crying it down) has to be a local development by indigenous people. They have to. Because that's their own position (number (1) above).
An example in practice : The Red Paint People.
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf073/sf073a01.htmG. F. Carter said:
Actually, it seems to have extended around the globe. But that doesn't so much concern us.
Now, let's see what the archaeological mafia says about them :
http://www.usm.maine.edu/gany/webaa/
It is not the intent of this project to draw any conclusions about cultural or racial affiliation of the Red Paint People. But, to layout in a logical coherent way information that has been gathered from sources that will be referenced utilizing hyperlinks, images, and a bibliography.
That part was written by a scientist with his mouth taped shut.
Then, after saying this, along come the politicians :
the Mafia said:
Two major dishonesties : (1) the Maine Museum site ignores much of the most compelling evidence : megalithic structures, aligned astronomically, and with inscriptions in ogham writing erected by these people here which are similar (if not identical) to contemporary structures in Europe. (2) the conclusion that the Red Paint People had been indigenous to North America was adopted as dogma by American archaeology 50 years before the first Red Paint people burial was discovered (in 2004 if I recall). This isn't a conclusion they reached from the evidence, but one enforced from the top. Bottom line : what's been obvious to people in Europe for decades is still hotly denied by the forces of Academic orthodoxy here. And not on the basis of the weight of the evidence, but to keep a view of mankind and history intact that the evidence undermines.
Why ? Because he controls who people think they are, and where they've come from. They've done this with the history of all people. "Science is only window dressing. The Goal is Control.George Orwell said:
So then. Does acknowledging that not everybody who ever lived here came from here evidence of Euro-Centric bias on my part ? (It's a fair question, since I'm presenting that side of it).
How could anyone conclude otherwise when every year there are fishing boats blown across the Atlantic in the late summer (hurricane season) from off the coast of Africa to South and Central America ? And boats from Asia washed up on the Pacific Coast ? Not everybody on these boats dies.
End Rant (for now, at least).
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uniface
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I can't argue for or against this one, NG. It's not in my neighborhood, and I'm not familiar with what's involved. But, and for whatever it may be worth, how many times can people hear accounts like the one quoted and keep believing that they're only the ravings of cranks with loose screws ?
My family saw the Kecksburg (Pennsylvania) UFO coming down. (Kecksburg is not far from where we lived). The army cordoned the whole area off, and flatbed trailers were pulling in and out of it that night with tarps covering whatever it was they were carrying away. A local radio broadcast (Youngstown, Ohio) heard by a friend I trust said that a base in the area had acknowledged "anti-missle activity" (then this disappeared). The official story was it was just a meteorite. Nothing to see here, folks. Just move along . . .
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uniface
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Another Cover-up (one that's been mentioned but in another account of it)
http://www.magma.ca/~rel/sheg/shegcore.html
The Sheguiandah archaeological site is on a rocky hill where traces of prehistoric peoples have been preserved in forest soils, in peat beds, and even under the open sky. There are stone tools in abundance, quarried bedrock from which the stone was obtained - and 50 years' worth of contention over whether people lived there before the Ice Age.
The hill is close to the modern village of Sheguiandah, on Manitoulin Island in Lake Huron. Protected by Ontario's heritage laws, it has been illegal to remove any artifact from the site for more than half a century.
The site was discovered by National Museum of Canada archaeologist Thomas E. Lee in 1951, and he excavated intensively there with large crews for the next four years (1952 to 1955). They made exciting finds that put Sheguiandah on the map for having the oldest traces of man in Ontario (Paleo-Indian spearpoints, about 10,000 years old). Even these soon paled in significance, however, when geologists told Lee that artifacts under the spearpoints were in Ice Age deposits. This exploded the established idea that spear-throwing Clovis Indians were the first humans to enter the Americas, after the Ice Age. Lee was vigorous in making his case, but the established authorities did not want to hear it. More than four decades would pass before the American "Clovis barrier" could be broken.
Meanwhile, opposition brought Lee's work to a premature end, and he found his papers rejected by leading journals for being "too controversial." He never got another chance to work on the site, and for a long, long time, no one else did, either. In 1987 neutral observers characterized it as "Canada's most neglected major site of the past 30 years."
No one was granted permission to work at the site until nearly a decade after Lee had died in 1982. His old trenches were reopened in 1991 (and closed again that same year) . . .
Actually, it was uglier than that. He was hounded out of the profession by his peers in the archaeological mafia. And when his boss persisted in publishing his work, his boss was similarly taken care of.
http://www.magma.ca/~rel/sheg/shegcore.html
The Sheguiandah archaeological site is on a rocky hill where traces of prehistoric peoples have been preserved in forest soils, in peat beds, and even under the open sky. There are stone tools in abundance, quarried bedrock from which the stone was obtained - and 50 years' worth of contention over whether people lived there before the Ice Age.
The hill is close to the modern village of Sheguiandah, on Manitoulin Island in Lake Huron. Protected by Ontario's heritage laws, it has been illegal to remove any artifact from the site for more than half a century.
The site was discovered by National Museum of Canada archaeologist Thomas E. Lee in 1951, and he excavated intensively there with large crews for the next four years (1952 to 1955). They made exciting finds that put Sheguiandah on the map for having the oldest traces of man in Ontario (Paleo-Indian spearpoints, about 10,000 years old). Even these soon paled in significance, however, when geologists told Lee that artifacts under the spearpoints were in Ice Age deposits. This exploded the established idea that spear-throwing Clovis Indians were the first humans to enter the Americas, after the Ice Age. Lee was vigorous in making his case, but the established authorities did not want to hear it. More than four decades would pass before the American "Clovis barrier" could be broken.
Meanwhile, opposition brought Lee's work to a premature end, and he found his papers rejected by leading journals for being "too controversial." He never got another chance to work on the site, and for a long, long time, no one else did, either. In 1987 neutral observers characterized it as "Canada's most neglected major site of the past 30 years."
No one was granted permission to work at the site until nearly a decade after Lee had died in 1982. His old trenches were reopened in 1991 (and closed again that same year) . . .
Actually, it was uglier than that. He was hounded out of the profession by his peers in the archaeological mafia. And when his boss persisted in publishing his work, his boss was similarly taken care of.
Monty
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I've lived in OK all my life and I think it's a bunch of hooey! Never heard of any such thing being discovered and I roamed the hills a lot as a young man. As far as those strange humanoids, you can see lots of them if you spend an afternoon at a large international airport! I had an 8 hour layover in Chicago Ohare one time and there were so many freaks it scared me and I am fearless! M 
nty
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chong2
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2012 ![:-\](https://www.treasurenet.com/smilies/undecided.gif "Undecided :-\")
mrs.oroblanco
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I think it is a telling situation when the Federal Government closes down a very important office.
Particularly, Bruce Babbitt, who closed down the Bureau of Mines and made them go bye, bye.
Surprisingly (not), it happened right after the Bureau of Mines disagreed with him about there being minerals in some land in California that they were closing off to mining in the Mojave.
One of the "rules" of withdrawing land from mineral entry is that the land in question is NOT to be mineralized.
And everyone who has ever been to the Mojave Desert knows - there are no minerals there. (yea, right - the Bureau of Mines said it was one of the most mineralized areas in the country).
Unfortunately, that was just about the time of the Bureau of Mines last official report. It died in 1995 - right after the California Desert Protection Act (S:21) was passed, but before it went into effect in 1995.
B
Particularly, Bruce Babbitt, who closed down the Bureau of Mines and made them go bye, bye.
Surprisingly (not), it happened right after the Bureau of Mines disagreed with him about there being minerals in some land in California that they were closing off to mining in the Mojave.
One of the "rules" of withdrawing land from mineral entry is that the land in question is NOT to be mineralized.
And everyone who has ever been to the Mojave Desert knows - there are no minerals there. (yea, right - the Bureau of Mines said it was one of the most mineralized areas in the country).
Unfortunately, that was just about the time of the Bureau of Mines last official report. It died in 1995 - right after the California Desert Protection Act (S:21) was passed, but before it went into effect in 1995.
B
Oroblanco
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Fascinating thread, thanks for posting! 
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oldgoat
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What is truly interesting about this thread, is that anyone is surprised by the machinations of the archie mafia...Many of us can remember the time when the only accepted Europeon contact with the Americas was Columbus...the Viking stones that are scattered over the East were the works of someone trying to dupe the general public, the chinese ballast stones on the West coast were a natural occurrance...anything that doesn't conform to the estabished is a fake or buried to hide from the public...Someone said power and control, good answer...
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uniface
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Virginia Steen-McIntyre on the fight for recognition at Valsequillo
The main problem started in 1968 with geochemist Barney Szabo's uranium- series dates on a mastodon tooth fragment from El Horno and a fragment of butchered camel bone from Hueyatlaco. Both specimens were associated with well made (but differently crafted) stone tools. We were expecting dates of ca 20,000 years. No 14C dates were possible because no datable carbon remained. Instead, Barney gave us dates of 250,000-350,000 years ! The site archaeologist was so appalled she would only allow the dates to be published in a journal few archaeologists would ever read (Szabo, et al., 1969, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, v. 6, pp. 237-244).
So it began. The next geological paper to confirm these old dates was submitted in 1975. But the publication was delayed, letters unanswered -- 1976, 1977, 1978 . . .
Finally ~ word came that they decided not to publish the proceedings volume at all. Another editor asked to see it, and it was sent off. Delays. No answers to letters. A phone call cornered the man who, after some stuttering, said that the manuscript had fallen behind the file cabinet and had been lost.
In 1981 our research was finally published in a prestigious journal for Quaternary (Ice Age) scientists (Steen-McIntyre et al.,1981, Quaternary Research, v. 16, pp. 1-17.)
These type of problems have been going on for forty years!
The main problem started in 1968 with geochemist Barney Szabo's uranium- series dates on a mastodon tooth fragment from El Horno and a fragment of butchered camel bone from Hueyatlaco. Both specimens were associated with well made (but differently crafted) stone tools. We were expecting dates of ca 20,000 years. No 14C dates were possible because no datable carbon remained. Instead, Barney gave us dates of 250,000-350,000 years ! The site archaeologist was so appalled she would only allow the dates to be published in a journal few archaeologists would ever read (Szabo, et al., 1969, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, v. 6, pp. 237-244).
So it began. The next geological paper to confirm these old dates was submitted in 1975. But the publication was delayed, letters unanswered -- 1976, 1977, 1978 . . .
Finally ~ word came that they decided not to publish the proceedings volume at all. Another editor asked to see it, and it was sent off. Delays. No answers to letters. A phone call cornered the man who, after some stuttering, said that the manuscript had fallen behind the file cabinet and had been lost.
In 1981 our research was finally published in a prestigious journal for Quaternary (Ice Age) scientists (Steen-McIntyre et al.,1981, Quaternary Research, v. 16, pp. 1-17.)
These type of problems have been going on for forty years!
naturegirl
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olegoat, 
I hope you don't mean that I'm the one surprised by human nature.(lust for power, mafia, ect.) I'm not. I'm just saying in this instance, the first link on Oklahoma sandstone, I'm skeptical. 'Nuff said, I have no grounds to stand on as far as judging archeology, but being a human myself, I do have thoughts on people. And a little experience. 
Rather than expect some big revelation, or change of "accepted" history, it seems to me, we are in the midst of a transition of accepted history. Once again, I'm treading in deep water, BUT, I know how to swim! Development of knowledge, and the acceptance of said knowledge takes time. A couple of generations from now, the conversation of who peopled the Americas first will be different, and I believe people like uniface, will have played a big role in advancing that change. I don't think that there is such an overwhelming power in archeology, and other sciences, that untruths can persist indefinetly. There are youngsters coming up now, that will not even be swayed by a single dominant old thought, and they will pursue the truth with vigor and thirst. They will test the accepted, that's thier job. It may take time, but truth wins over power.
respectfully,
naturegirl
I hope you don't mean that I'm the one surprised by human nature.(lust for power, mafia, ect.) I'm not. I'm just saying in this instance, the first link on Oklahoma sandstone, I'm skeptical. 'Nuff said, I have no grounds to stand on as far as judging archeology, but being a human myself, I do have thoughts on people. And a little experience. Rather than expect some big revelation, or change of "accepted" history, it seems to me, we are in the midst of a transition of accepted history. Once again, I'm treading in deep water, BUT, I know how to swim! Development of knowledge, and the acceptance of said knowledge takes time. A couple of generations from now, the conversation of who peopled the Americas first will be different, and I believe people like uniface, will have played a big role in advancing that change. I don't think that there is such an overwhelming power in archeology, and other sciences, that untruths can persist indefinetly. There are youngsters coming up now, that will not even be swayed by a single dominant old thought, and they will pursue the truth with vigor and thirst. They will test the accepted, that's thier job. It may take time, but truth wins over power.
respectfully,
naturegirl
oldgoat
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NG, I wasn't talking about you and I am sorry if it seemed that way. I like the fact that you can play devil's advocate, it shows that you do think about the things that some of the rest of us wonder about....I don't know if I need a bigger shovel, I might be digging the hole deeper...lol. I do agree that folks like Uniface and some of the others on this forum and others that I have been to are expanding our knowledge...In the next couple of generations, the time boundaries, for population of the Americas, is going to grow way past the places that we see them now...
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A old friend of mine helped excavate Russell Cave. He said they dug a giant skeleton out of the lower layers. I need to research that dig again and see if its mentioned. I do not think that all Archeologist are in a massive cover up. Its a low paying job to begin with. If you rock the boat from the older established train of thought you stand the chance of never having your career go anywhere.
Its just a matter of time though before all that changes and guess what? It will be breaking headline news. Remember it was not many years ago that our greatest paleontologist scientist actually considered the extinction of the dinosaurs to dino-farts.
.
Keep it churned up Uni ! Pretty soon you will be collecting 50,000 bp uni blades from Kansas
TnMtns
Its just a matter of time though before all that changes and guess what? It will be breaking headline news. Remember it was not many years ago that our greatest paleontologist scientist actually considered the extinction of the dinosaurs to dino-farts.
.Keep it churned up Uni ! Pretty soon you will be collecting 50,000 bp uni blades from Kansas
TnMtns
naturegirl
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Hey oldgoat! Dig that hole deep enough for both of us! Thanks for talking ya'll!
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Hey
You know how science is always covering up archeology that does not fit with current political or academic views? Well I am sure you have been watching climategate. Where the computers where hacked in Copenhagen>?? You gotta take the time to read some of these emails of the top scientist in the world that are pushing global warming. Take your time on this site. Al Gore is sunk as are many others. This could actually help many new views become studied or taken seriously. When a budding scientist goes against the norm they have peer reviews and if you do not toe the line then you are toasted by the heavy weights.
Anyways here is the site. Take your time and you will see the views and how the egos of many once intellectual minds worked and the way they cover up the inconvenient truth.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/20/the-global-warming-scandal-of-the-century/
TnMountains
You know how science is always covering up archeology that does not fit with current political or academic views? Well I am sure you have been watching climategate. Where the computers where hacked in Copenhagen>?? You gotta take the time to read some of these emails of the top scientist in the world that are pushing global warming. Take your time on this site. Al Gore is sunk as are many others. This could actually help many new views become studied or taken seriously. When a budding scientist goes against the norm they have peer reviews and if you do not toe the line then you are toasted by the heavy weights.
Anyways here is the site. Take your time and you will see the views and how the egos of many once intellectual minds worked and the way they cover up the inconvenient truth.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/20/the-global-warming-scandal-of-the-century/
TnMountains
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uniface
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This site in particular has been on that like stink on dooky.
And deservedly.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
And deservedly.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
mrs.oroblanco
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TnMountains,
If you watched Fox or CNN today, or for the last week, you would know that the article that you used for "proof" is not only suspect, but that there is an entire investigation on a "hack job" done on emails and information from the Climate Control panel and some others, and published may be tainted or changed.
Even the site you posted stated that they do not know if the information is true or false.
QUOTE: from the site you listed.
“Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm that all of this material is genuine.
“This information has been obtained and published without our permission and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation.
“We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and we have involved the police in this enquiry.”
Now - we will just have to wait to see what transpires.
Plus, the fact that - this is only a handful of people involved in Climate research.
B
If you watched Fox or CNN today, or for the last week, you would know that the article that you used for "proof" is not only suspect, but that there is an entire investigation on a "hack job" done on emails and information from the Climate Control panel and some others, and published may be tainted or changed.
Even the site you posted stated that they do not know if the information is true or false.
QUOTE: from the site you listed.
“Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm that all of this material is genuine.
“This information has been obtained and published without our permission and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation.
“We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and we have involved the police in this enquiry.”
Now - we will just have to wait to see what transpires.
Plus, the fact that - this is only a handful of people involved in Climate research.
B
