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[gldguy1]

 

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[bcfromfl]

The more I read about this, the more it sounds like someone with a highbanker ignoring the rules, and making things more tense between those of us who pay attention to the rules and LEO. It would be nice if we could get back to the "way things were," but until then -- no motorized highbanking anywhere near a source of water!!

No matter how AMRA tries to spin this, a "little water pump" is still a violation!

 

[gldguy1]

So the way it was explained to me by another miner, 2200 gallon per or less was legal and your battery couldn't touch the ground unless it was a state park. I only use my shovel and a52 for myself

 

[bcfromfl]

I've never heard before a distinction made with respect to gallons per hour. I've only heard "motorized," and "prohibited."

 

[goldenmojo]

I don't know about the specifics either but I was out at the Bear river for a couple of hours Saturday morning and someone was running a small highbanker and flushing back into the river. Two DFW reps in green uniforms and kayaks stopped and told them to pack their stuff up. They were given a warning that they would be cited if they continued. The river park there is posted no high bankers.

 

[goldog]

This is another policy vs law issue. While I don't know the specifics of the encounter, I believe there are times when they just make stuff up.

A while back I wanted to HB on my claim. There was a "wet to wet", "dry to dry" policy. We ran within the wet area. So we were following the rules.

Met a ranger on the way out. According to him we couldn't leave the road. Much less any type of mining. The motor was just so far beyond he couldn't believe we'd even try. "Area is closed. Fire area closure." It had been 18 months since that closure had been lifted. And I don't find any motor/highbanker rules. Except they may have amended the dredge ban.

 

[Asmbandits]

Highbanking is not illegal, please help stop this spread of incorrect info. Motorized suction dredging is banned.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using TreasureNet.com mobile app

 

[n01d3x]

I can confirm that highbanking is 100% legal, at least on BLM land. If you're in a "protected or specially designated area" they restrict the use of a motor period, for any use. BLM considers a motor as what we consider a motor, gas or diesel powered. Electric is ok on any BLM land, gas is ok on any BLM land that is not a "protected or specially designated area".

 

[bcfromfl]

As far as LEO is concerned in the State of California, motorized highbanking must be a certain number of feet from a waterway, and also conform to local rules as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's 150 feet.

 

[Asmbandits]

As far as LEO is concerned in the State of California, motorized highbanking must be a certain number of feet from a waterway, and also conform to local rules as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's 150 feet.

Sounds like this leo is considering the equipment a dredge. There are numerous threads here regarding the regulations in place for highbanking.

 

[n01d3x]

This is the State of California law on highbanking.
Codes Display Text

 

[bcfromfl]

This is the State of California law on highbanking.
Codes Display Text

I'm fairly certain these rules (dated 1988) have been replaced by current regulations. Even if these rules are posted in error and haven't been removed by the State of California, you can't use ignorance as a defense if you are challenged by a LEO.

The New 49ers are one of the few organizations leading the legal challenge in the courts, and they have stated no motorized highbanking on any of their claims. I think you can trust their interpretation of the current laws. They are challenging their right to NON-motorized highbanking at this time.

 

[n01d3x]

I'd rather trust the BLM agent, that's in charge of my area, that gave me the info. He even said if I have any problems to tell them I talked to him and give them his contact info.
Also, there are no new rules for highbanking in CA, at least that I nor the BLM are aware of.

 

[Clay Diggins]

This is the State of California law on highbanking.
Codes Display Text

Thanks for posting the actual law n01d3x.

The website you linked to is the current law in California for highbanking on the Sacramento River or the San Joaquin River basins. There are no laws for highbanking in other river basins in California. For those who believe there may be other laws about highbanking I challenge them to point out that law. All the current California laws are at the link you posted so it shouldn't be too hard to do a search and find such a law.

So often rumor and "rules" are assumed to be laws. Clearly California has no laws against highbanking. Clearly California (and some Florida) prospectors find drama over fake news more satisfying than the simple fact that it requires hard work to find gold. That's just human nature and I suppose we can expect this sort of misinformation to be repeated time and again.

This story reminds me of the fake news AMRA put out less than two weeks ago. Seems to be a new trend in fundraising? Maybe we could call it fear raising?

Heavy Pans

 

[n01d3x]

Thanks Clay, it's very hard to weed through the bs surrounding mining, you have been a great help for me. I decided enough is enough and actually called the BLM office in charge of the land I work. The guy was actually very knowledgeable and very nice, and he backed up the info I posted.

 

[bcfromfl]

I think I detected a jab at me, since I'm from Florida...and not part of the "Western Club" so therefore not able to comment on subjects such as this? I am a member of The New 49ers, who hires James Buchal to test all these regs in court...so anything I post here comes through that chain. I spend time mining in northern California, so keep as up-to-date on all the regulations that may impact my efforts.

I don't deny that there isn't confusion about all this, but you can't use that as a defense if you get slapped with a ticket.

Recently, the California Water Board has gotten involved in highbanking, and is enforcing its own rules. I would defer all inquiries to James Buchal so you can get the straight scoop. Also, it appears as if there may be two different sets of rules being referred to in this thread, i.e., those that pertain to BLM land, and those that pertain to State and National Forest Land. All I recommend is know the land status of where you are located, and be sure to check with LEO for local rules.

I'm just trying to be helpful, so don't shoot the messenger!

 

[bcfromfl]

Put it this way:

Let's say there was no official speed limit law on the books, yet law enforcement was still pulling over motorists and writing tickets on "reckless endangerment," or something like that. Would you continue driving beyond the threshold for speeding/reckless endangerment if you knew the chances were pretty good you'd get pulled over?

Same thing here. There are contradictions, and maybe no specific rules in place. But law enforcement is writing tickets, and maybe citing obscure rules to do so, but the end result is you still get slapped with a fine and maybe lose equipment.

I choose to not draw attention to what I do, and remain within the current interpretations until things get worked out.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I think I detected a jab at me, since I'm from Florida...and not part of the "Western Club" so therefore not able to comment on subjects such as this? I am a member of The New 49ers, who hires James Buchal to test all these regs in court...so anything I post here comes through that chain. I spend time mining in northern California, so keep as up-to-date on all the regulations that may impact my efforts.

I don't deny that there isn't confusion about all this, but you can't use that as a defense if you get slapped with a ticket.

Recently, the California Water Board has gotten involved in highbanking, and is enforcing its own rules. I would defer all inquiries to James Buchal so you can get the straight scoop. Also, it appears as if there may be two different sets of rules being referred to in this thread, i.e., those that pertain to BLM land, and those that pertain to State and National Forest Land. All I recommend is know the land status of where you are located, and be sure to check with LEO for local rules.

I'm just trying to be helpful, so don't shoot the messenger!

Not intended as a jab bcfromfl. The public lands are open to all citizens no matter which State they spend their time in. Your opinion about those public lands has the same value as those expressed by people west of Florida. In fact the public lands and those already claimed are open to highbanking in California - even for folks from Florida.

I do get a bit cranky when these recreational clubs spread disinformation. It doesn't surprise me when their members parrot their club newsletters or facebook posts, that's the nature of clubs. California prospecting clubs in particular seem to want to put restrictions and regulations on their members long before the State even thinks of regulating actual mining. The more I watch this process the more I've come to understand California would rather hear of some disaster or dramatic violation of their "rights" (even when it's a made up story) rather than hearing something boring like the actual laws.

California Water board is not "involved in highbanking" nor have they enforced any rules. No one has gotten "slapped with a ticket" that isn't bs. A ticket would have to state which law was being violated and as you can see there is no law to base the ticket on.

I think if you were to actually study the legal differences between rules, regulations and laws you will see why this is all drama. Without a law there can be nothing to base a regulation on. Without a regulation a rule is just a weak suggestion. Rules and regulations are not laws. You can only receive a citation (ticket) for laws that can be cited. If there is no law making something an offense there can be no ticket.

I know you are trying to be helpful and yes this can be confusing. You are obviously confused about the nature of mining claims. ALL valid mining claims are located on Federally managed Public Lands. It doesn't matter whether those Public Lands are managed by the Forest Service, BLM, Fish and Wildlife or some other agency - the mining claim laws and regulations are the same in every State. There is no such thing as Public Land owned by the State of California and there are no mining claims on California State owned lands. California has 8 State Forests and there are no mining claims allowed there.

Lawyers bill by the hour. They mostly charge similar rates. The only real difference between lawyers is whether they can put together a valid argument and win in court with that argument. Really good lawyers can do that with a simple well researched argument in a very short period of time. Does your lawyer put together valid arguments that win in court? Are they so good that these arguments are simple and require few billing hours? Does your lawyer have a winning track record for mining cases?

The lawyers I communicate with have a long track record of winning many mining cases. They don't think there is any valid basis for issuing a ticket based on the simple act of highbanking in California. They base that opinion on the fact there is no law prohibiting highbanking in California. At this point it's all opinions anyway because there is no evidence anyone has been ticketed for highbanking.

About the only way to stop someone from highbanking in California is to somehow spread a rumor that highbanking (or motors, electric devices and digging) are illegal in California. Rumors like that could potentially lead to more donations for lawyers or more prospecting club interest. Fear is a great motivator.

Heavy Pans

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I call bs on the entire story. Anyone who knows the laws would never stand for this unless he was just some guy that bought his claim and tools, which that could be.
Any legitimate claim owner in this situation would stand firm and demand the blm and sheriff be present because only they have the authority, while he keeps on mining his gold. The sheriff would have showed up and set the officer straight in two seconds.
Either this guy was an idiot for not knowing his rights or this paper is making up stories. Total bs and who in their right mind would believe this.
I believe the "fund raiser for amra" rumor much more than this crap.

This is exactly why I don't join these clubs and the same goes for the NRA too. Most of their members probably kiss their boots and savor every word spoken as if it means something instead of learning for themselves.
If this story is legit and I doubt it is, people really need to sack up.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I've been dealing with my own potential issues at my claim. Forestry put up a new "unauthorized trail" sign at the turn to my claim so my claim neighbor and I have been expecting something similar.
We've been there numerous weekends since the sign was put in and haven't seen a soul but you just never know who you will run into out there.
I want to have a good relationship with those guys and gals and claim owners should demand professionalism from them as well as give it. Part of that is knowing the laws and your rights and understanding where mining authority lies.
I hope that they know we are there and don't have a prob with it but I wouldn't hesitate to call in the authorities on them if I needed.....before the bullets would fly hopefully. They can argue with the sheriff all they want while I continue digging.