National Register of Historic Places

[tannerhatley]

Hi, I'm new and I need to pool together your collective expericences and understanding of National Register of Historic Places. I have found a place close to my house that is a National Register of Historic Places but it is on private land. This site is a possible location of prehistoric American Indian settlements dating to the mid-Woodland periods of 200 to 1400 AD. I think all I need to do is get permission from the land owner but that may be hard too because it bing acres and acres of farm land, I don't know who could own it but plan on securing their permission and hunt once I find out who owns it. So what do you think about the senario?

 

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[Red James Cash]

One thing about historical markers,theyre usually not in the approximate place.Very inaccurate placement of them,plus over the years they get moved around.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If it's on private land, then I would think that the owner can do what he chooses with the land. I don't think such a designation disallows the owner from doing something like metal detecting, for instance. I once detected a home from the 1850s here in CA (which is early for CA!) which had a historical plaque right on the front yard. It is now a bed-&-breakfast. My wife and I had been staying the night. The next morning, I got permission to hit the yard. Found a few old coins in fact, a few of which were right next to the plaque. Doh!

 

[tannerhatley]

These may not be marked. I don't know yet. However though it is a creek area that is said to be the location. It's 3.7 mi long and full of woods right next to farm land on either side. I hope I can find the land owner.

 

[tannerhatley]

Well I don't know if this is bad new or good news. The goobers at:
Archeological Conservancy (Non-profit)
5301 Central Ave Ne
Albuquerque, NM 87108
bought this plot. There aren't any trespass signs or anything. What do you think? Should I have a look? I don't know. they could have a sleeper living at one of the homes near this space. I did contact the adjacent lot owner so that I can go past their property and look at the creek area. Feedback please.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well, first off, a question: Why are you interested in detecting a pre-historic indian area, to begin with? Pre-contact indians here in the USA had no refined metals. (with the exception of a few that dabbled in pounded out naturally occuring copper in select areas). So, ... personally ... indian stuff bores me

 

[tannerhatley]

Good point. I didn't think about that.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

You need too get permission from the land-owner! If it is a National Historic Landmark and you are caught trespassing on a N.H.L. place relic hunting they are protected under the ARAP act Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) you can get heavy fines and even jail time. Make sure you get permission.

 

[tannerhatley]

Thank you HutSiteDigger. I wasn't sure exactly what would happen but you are right about securing permission which I plan on doing and also plan on not going on their lands after thinking about it last night.

 

[tannerhatley]

I did some corresponding with the head of the archeological group and he was nice. However I disliked that he said that those who treasure hunt for profit are looters.
It's sad that's how they look at people who are having fun. Am I wrong? If they wonder what gives us the right to keep what we find, then what gives them the right to buy up residential lands to protect a history that doesn't belong to them? Well at least he was nice about it. I'm too green to be complaining to you seasoned folks. Sorry.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I did some corresponding with the head of the archeological group ..... he said that those who treasure hunt for profit are looters....

tannerhatly, welcome to the harsh cruel reality of metal detecting and archies. They (99% of them anyhow) dislike md'rs with a passion. Why did you feel the need to talk to him? Is he in some sort of permission to grant permission to detect there? Well, at this point, it wouldn't even matter whether the authority rested with him or not. The bottom line is, even if you'd asked about your own land, or a buddy's private property, or the modern city sandbox, the answer would have been the same (whether or not he really had authority to even say): "No you can't detect anywhere". Even if the answer is un-substantiated, they will grasp for straws (and try to say arpa applies to all sub-levels of land, even if not federal) and so forth.

But go figure: asking an archie if you can metal detect, would be a little like asking the president of PETA (an animal rights wacko group) this question: "Can I leave my pet bunny in the car while I run into 7-11 to get a slurpee?" They would screecchh:

"NOOO, that's animal cruelty! You can be arrested and your car confiscated! The bunny could suffocate in the hot sun! How could you be so cruel!!"

But go figure: what did you expect to come from a PETA activist? SO TOO do I put LITTLE stock in most of what archies say about legalities, laws, and so forth. Thus likewise, I wouldn't put much stock in his answer to you, if you really wanted to detect there.

But again, why are you interested in detecting a place with only pre-contact indian stuff? They had no refined metals.

 

[tannerhatley]

It's the allure that it is prehistoric. My immature mind is running with fantasy. I am going to look else where. Thanks guys for the advice.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Tanner check out the property next too the historical landmark. That is what I do. If it a N.H.L place I will check out land records and see who owns the property next to it and also check out the property lines and then before I MD i will walk the property and double check too make sure where the property lines are after getting permission normally. I always stay at least 100-200 yards away from a N.H.L place and if it is a national park at least at least a 1000 yards away and I have a GPS on my phone app that lets me know if I am getting too close.. You never EVER want too get lost in the woods near a national park while MDing.

 

[tannerhatley]

It's a no go with the next land owner. He pretty much seemed confused or indifferent about it. He said I should try the beach. OH well.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Don't let one buzz killing homeowner ruin things for you! There is always spots out there and homeowners willing too let you do it. Just remember the LAW OF AVERAGES.. If you go too 100 Homeowners homes and ask permission out of that 100 you may get 10 or so too yes. Always try and research the property and bring old maps and make it so you sound more into the historical.archaeology side of things then just wanting too go for a dig. Homeowners REALLY respect the fact you are interested in the history of the property and not just wanting too find something valuable. Good luck.

 

[archaicman]

As a combat veteran, a meat eater, and archaeologist for the Army, I take issue with your depiction of "Archies" and the job we do...Most archaeologists dedicate their time and a significant portion of their income to preserve the past for the children of America. Sure most of the cultures we study and preserve are remote....but some are not. I appreciate the freedoms we have, and the freedom to have an opinion about other groups of people. It just seems to me your depiction of archaeology and cultural resources professionals is a bit one-sided...and unappreciative of those that work hard to preserve your heritage and the heritage of all Americans. Maybe I am wrong...just my opinion..

 

[civil_war22]

So u just joined today to snoop around about any historic places that we land rapers might be detecting. Not everyone is out to make a profit. Not everyone is gonna go loot some national park. An yes most archies are the same. Trust me I have two in immediate family and 3 buddies who are. And they all have the mentality that if its on American soil then it belongs to them. Y'all go out and find the stuff yourself and don't let real professional metal detectorist go out and find the stuff. I know too well how y'all work. Like the Archie's here that will go out on battlefield and out on federal land and dig it up and then instead of displaying it for everyone to see y'all lock it up in a university basement like its a black sheep of the family. I too have a profound love for history. My immediate family is Cherokee Indian and have property in Oklahoma that y'all Archie's have tried to rape and pillage for the last 70-80 years.

 

[archaicman]

So u just joined today to snoop around about any historic places that we land rapers might be detecting. Not everyone is out to make a profit. Not everyone is gonna go loot some national park. An yes most archies are the same. Trust me I have two in immediate family and 3 buddies who are. And they all have the mentality that if its on American soil then it belongs to them. Y'all go out and find the stuff yourself and don't let real professional metal detectorist go out and find the stuff. I know too well how y'all work. Like the Archie's here that will go out on battlefield and out on federal land and dig it up and then instead of displaying it for everyone to see y'all lock it up in a university basement like its a black sheep of the family. I too have a profound love for history. My immediate family is Cherokee Indian and have property in Oklahoma that y'all Archie's have tried to rape and pillage for the last 70-80 years.

Are you really playing the rape and the Indian card? Interesting....

 

[civil_war22]

I heard it on tv earlier but seriously I have the utmost respect for all individuals until I'm disrespected. The Archie's here in arkansas and Oklahoma by far are the worst. My family has land in Oklahoma that was a confederate camp, reservation, and a skirmish site not to mention there was over 6 centuries of Indian artifacts recovered there. The archeological society has tried and tried to buy the land and family won't sell so to make matters worse the jerks go out there and stick a big bronze sign up describing everything that went on there. Plus they had a save the ------- page on Facebook for it and it mentions how metal detectorist rape the land and steal from the dead and so forth and so on. So yes I have a very profound dislike of archeologists. They can't seem to figure out when it's privately owned property regardless of who you ask up high in y'all chain of command you still may not dig or enter landowners premises without their consent. Even though hearing from the stories of the Archie's I know going out on evening excursions digging in federal land isn't against y'all's code of conduct since y'all therefore think all land is y'all's if it significant to history

 

[tannerhatley]

I'm sorry guys. I wasn't trying to start a fight. I agree that history should be preserved but I don't agree that those socities should buy up lands to keep people off of them. Relics of the past should belong to those who find them or donated to a museum.