New California recording Law

[Goldwasher]

To raise money for "affordable housing" a bill was introduced and went through to add fees to real estate recordings.

California Legislature passes affordable housing bills

Of course JERRMOONBEAR loves it...the recorders offices and counties not so much.

Of course the hoopla on some mining group sites is that it will increase costs of your mining claim recordings.

I don't think it applies.As you have a claim on the minerals. The theory put forth by some is that claims are considered "real estate"

Clay?

 

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[M.E.G.]

In Oregon ORS 517.080

All mining claims, whether quartz or placer, are real estate. The owner of the possessory right thereto has a legal estate therein within the meaning of ORS 105.005 (Right of action).

ORS 105.005 (Right of action)

(1) Any person who has a legal estate in real property and a present right to the possession of the property, may recover possession of the property, with damages for withholding possession, by an action at law. The action shall be commenced against the person in the actual possession of the property at the time, or if the property is not in the actual possession of anyone, then against the person acting as the owner of the property.

(2)

 

[winners58]

who owns the title to the land?
whats filed?

• Affidavits showing work
• posting notice on a mining claim
• quit claim deed
• don't know if paying property tax is a recording,

isn't the tax for possessory interest as opposed to a patent/title?
the only one I see might be the quit claim deed
might have to start calling them Federal mining claims

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB2

 

[Clay Diggins]

Best thing to do in these situations is to read the actual proposed law. I know your congresscritters don't bother with little details like reading the laws they vote on but actual citizens might find it a good idea to know what's coming their way so the can estimate their annual lubrication needs. The press does a poor job of reading these bills also.

The tax is on real estate transactions, not on land. The United States owns title to the land and can not be taxed on that ownership.

Ownership of minerals is an interest in real estate. It looks like there will be an additional $75 fee tacked on to quit claim deeds. I imagine some recorders will try to apply that to all notices too. Welcome to California. Here's the law as written:

27388.1. (a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, and except as provided in paragraph (2), in addition to any other recording fees specified in this code, a fee of seventy-five dollars ($75) shall be paid at the time of recording of every real estate instrument, paper, or notice required or permitted by law to be recorded, except those expressly exempted from payment of recording fees, per each single transaction per parcel of real property. The fee imposed by this section shall not exceed two hundred twenty-five dollars ($225). “Real estate instrument, paper, or notice” means a document relating to real property, including, but not limited to, the following: deed, grant deed, trustee’s deed, deed of trust, reconveyance, quit claim deed, fictitious deed of trust, assignment of deed of trust, request for notice of default, abstract of judgment, subordination agreement, declaration of homestead, abandonment of homestead, notice of default, release or discharge, easement, notice of trustee sale, notice of completion, UCC financing statement, mechanic’s lien, maps, and covenants, conditions, and restrictions.

You can read the whole bill HERE.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

Best thing to do in these situations is to read the actual proposed law. I know your congresscritters don't bother with little details like reading the laws they vote on but actual citizens might find it a good idea to know what's coming their way so the can estimate their annual lubrication needs. The press does a poor job of reading these bills also.

The tax is on real estate transactions, not on land. The United States owns title to the land and can not be taxed on that ownership.

Ownership of minerals is an interest in real estate. It looks like there will be an additional $75 fee tacked on to quit claim deeds. I imagine some recorders will try to apply that to all notices too. Welcome to California. Here's the law as written:



You can read the whole bill HERE.

Heavy Pans

I guess a positive is that if you have to pay on a quit claim deed...

AND your a claim flipper your the main person who will have to pay the extra charge!! That deserves to!!!!!!

I actually like that

 

[Goldwasher]

Yea I had read it it's the

"Including but, not limited to the following part that makes the gray area I worry about"

Though what winners has to say is encouraging as far as recording locations and annual filings maybe being excluded

 

[winners58]

forgot "notice of abandonment" in my list of filings

Property Tax Annotations MINES AND MINERALS (see 590.0020 Proof of Labor.)
Property Tax Annotations - 590.0000

interesting case on mining claim property tax on a claim flipper
https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/590_0001.pdf

 

[Asmbandits]

Glad I caught this thread, great info guys! This crazy state gets nuttier by the minute..

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using TreasureNet.com mobile app

 

[Bejay]

I'll agree with Goldwasher ......."BUT NOT LIMITED TO"........Will make interpretation allowing the collection of revenue very open ended. You just got to love it! If the Gov can collect money, they will figure out a way to gain revenue. But the "truth will be in the pudding"....and affidavits will be hitting their desks; as well as location notices, etc ....but a uniform application of the law will have to prevail throughout the State.

Bejay

 

[Rail Dawg]

I guess a positive is that if you have to pay on a quit claim deed...

AND your a claim flipper your the main person who will have to pay the extra charge!! That deserves to!!!!!!

I actually like that

I locate many claims a year and then sell when needing to generate cash.

Of course I mine all the time too lol.

Fees are usually passed on to those purchasing the claims.

Since all my claims are in Nevada I can (again) be thankful for not having to deal with California.

 

[Goldwasher]

ICK

 

[Hard Prospector]

California truely has become "A single political party socialist state" within our Union. This state has gone so far left its nearly in the lap of the old Soviet Union. The politicions here will say and do anything to secure votes from non producers while making it difficult as Hell for hard working people to try and make a buck ...........no mater what the long term consequences.

 

[sprailroad]

Well.........IF Northern Calif. and Southern Oregon are ever able to break off and become the state of "Jefferson", perhaps all of the crazy stuff might end. I don't know anymore. It just goes on and on.......

 

[Rail Dawg]

ICK

Shoot locating, buying and selling of claims goes back as far as there has been mining it seems.

Not sure I understand the disgust?

Most miners I work with are glad to have a valid claim at a fair price without having to spend months learning the system.

Is this frowned upon here?

 

[Goldwasher]

The buying and selling of mining claims going back....has lead to a lot of shooting!!

It's frowned upon in mining law..

locating and selling to generate cash is not a valid reason to locate.

Miners don't have to pay other people for claims. With the exception of a lease or a claim with significant reports and real sampling. RARE!!!!

Location fees should be paid by the locator,why pass them on? And please explain how a claim with no report of reserves is worth more because someone else found it and sells it to someone else.

Doing so withing the same assessment year the claim was located or a few years after with no real exploration....ICK

Thats why I tell people if they don't know how to locate a claim then don't buy one.

I will help anyone through the process of finding Their own claim and locating it properly. Do I charge a fee yep a small one. Less than THEY will pay at the county and BLM,
I will also make sure they know how to file the cheapasheck paperwork every year after.

If your a veteran or in the military I'll do it for FREE!!!!!!!

They will be the ones finding the mineral, putting up the monument etc. I will not paper locate for anyone. The people who do this want to learn the process.

Historical selling and buying of mining claims was for good workable claims and is nothing like it used to be.

The staking of ground and selling it to the less experienced has always been frowned upon.

The whole "it takes months to learn the system" is just not an accurate description of the mining claim process. Which is pretty dang straightforward.

The most difficult part is finding open ground with access and dirt worth digging, and laying legal claim to.

Buying a claim from someone else clearly shows you are not a prospector...and for sure it does not make you a miner.

I would never stake and sell one, to generate cash. I stake in the first place to generate cash out of the ground not passing it on and inflating it's value.

Not an attack on Raildog..just an answer to his question.

 

[Rail Dawg]

That makes sense Goldwasher.

The miners I've sold to are grateful for the claim.

Even with the good work being done with LandMatters (and here) locating a claim is very difficult work for the new miner.

I bought my first claim and don't regret it one bit.

It took a great mentor and lots of study to locate other claims on my own.

All the history I've read about mining in the west is filled with the locating, buying and selling of claims.

To me it's an integral part of our heritage.

I've given away claims to worthy causes and will continue to do so.

Opening claims to willing buyers increases the number of active prospectors.

Again good points we just differ on how claims are treated.

 

[Hard Prospector]

Well.........IF Northern Calif. and Southern Oregon are ever able to break off and become the state of "Jefferson", perhaps all of the crazy stuff might end. I don't know anymore. It just goes on and on.......

That may be the best long term solution to the extreme "Californication" thats going on, break it up into 2 or 3 smaller states.
Shouldn't take more than an act of Congress.

 

[Goldwasher]

That makes sense Goldwasher.

The miners I've sold to are grateful for the claim.

Even with the good work being done with LandMatters (and here) locating a claim is very difficult work for the new miner.

I bought my first claim and don't regret it one bit.

It took a great mentor and lots of study to locate other claims on my own.

All the history I've read about mining in the west is filled with the locating, buying and selling of claims.

To me it's an integral part of our heritage.

I've given away claims to worthy causes and will continue to do so.

Opening claims to willing buyers increases the number of active prospectors.

Again good points we just differ on how claims are treated.

I am not saying that anyone who sells a claim is a scammer either.

It is just way more of a racket than it is heritage these days.

Intersting when you read old journals when the guys sold their claims it was because they wanted to move on to better more hopeful prospects.

A lot of them came with the shelter that had been built and sluices in place holes already started etc.

I have seen what I believe could be good claims come up on craigslist. Though still when you get over the $500 price range on a twenty acre claim that your selling because you obviously didn't find much gold...it gets to be a little too much.

I never had a mentor. I've had to learn everything on my own and I came to the conclusion that, even though I could make a lot of money flipping claims I would rather help people stake their own.I too want to increase the number of active prospectors.

I too know people who bought their first claim and love it...unfortunately I know more who wish they ran into me first.

Good job donating them

 

[Goldwasher]

That may be the best long term solution to the extreme "Californication" thats going on, break it up into 2 or 3 smaller states.
Shouldn't take more than an act of Congress.

Too bad it will never happen

 

[Rail Dawg]

I am not saying that anyone who sells a claim is a scammer either.

It is just way more of a racket than it is heritage these days.

Intersting when you read old journals when the guys sold their claims it was because they wanted to move on to better more hopeful prospects.

A lot of them came with the shelter that had been built and sluices in place holes already started etc.

I have seen what I believe could be good claims come up on craigslist. Though still when you get over the $500 price range on a twenty acre claim that your selling because you obviously didn't find much gold...it gets to be a little too much.

I never had a mentor. I've had to learn everything on my own and I came to the conclusion that, even though I could make a lot of money flipping claims I would rather help people stake their own.I too want to increase the number of active prospectors.

I too know people who bought their first claim and love it...unfortunately I know more who wish they ran into me first.

Good job donating them

You're a good man for donating your time!

Unfortunately mentors like you are hard to find.

My claims are in Rye Patch, NV in the 3 most desirable sections.

I only sell to pay the maintenance fees on the claims we work.

Actually don't like to give up claims as there is most definitely gold still to be found.

It's not like I'm making some huge profit.

Claims are real estate as declared by Congress if I recall (Clay Diggins correct me if I'm wrong).

I think locating claims correctly as a new prospector is VERY difficult.

Easier now but in the beginning no way.

What exactly is N1/2SE1/4SW1/4 and how does that translate to a county map in some drawer?

You know what I mean lol.

Anyway I'm listening Goldwasher.

You old-timers have my respect my intentions really aren't evil.