New site?...with different clue versions?

[Matthew Roberts]

So if the Flagg Foundation wanted rid of the maps, and there was, conveniently, an individual who wanted them, why didn't the Flagg Foundation just give them to the guy instead of going down the devious path of paying to have the stones declared a fraud, so THEN they could get rid of them?

Because the board had to vote and the board was not in unanimous agreement. There were also legal issues that it was in Flaggs best interest to follow some sort of procedure. Flaggs board represented all of Flaggs members not just one or two people.

 

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[wrmickel1]

Exactly, Dave. It seems some here think the Flagg Foundation supposedly paid a bunch of hack scientists just so they could get rid of the stones!!!...apparently, the people at the Flagg Foundation are so dense that they didn't realize all they had to do was throw em in a dumpster and save the consulting fees

We could believe that, or perhaps, that the entire premise of the "bought and paid for" Desert Archaeology analysis is faulty?

It is possible, after all, that the Desert Archaeology crew actually tried to make an accurate analysis of the stones.

I’ll say Hogwash, A true and accurate analysis would have started with the stone itself. Not just a they don’t match any stone found in the Supers. That’s a deceptive line from the get go. They are bought and paid for, They don’t turn a wheel for free ever. But they do offer volunteers to help on projects.

babymick1

 

[somehiker]

Additionally.......in a legal sense....I believe that the opinions given by the staff of DA Inc. in a magazine article would not carry much weight in any court case . An official report, signed by each of those involved in the examination would IMO. Does such a report exist ?
I doubt it.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

HA! Apparently not...I missed the Pro Bono part...thank you for the correction!

So the hack scientists lied about the stones for free. This just gets better and better.

While the Desert Archaeology crew says AZ Hwys Mag requested the analysis, Matthew and everyone else have been saying that the Flagg Foundation were clients of Desert Archaeology. Which was it?

For anyone who seriously is interested, AzHiways did not own the stone maps and had no authority to order DAI to examine them. It was Flagg who owned the stones and only Flagg could enter into the agreement with DAI. DAI received worldwide publicity by being in the AzHiways article so pro bono was a sweet deal for them.

No amount of truth, logic and rationality will satisfy those who have issues with the stone maps and 8those who believe them to be authentic. The conversation always ends the same with straw man non issues like AzHiways controlling the stones being pulled out of someone's behind.

I'm done with the topic and wish everyone well. Life's to short.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I’ll say Hogwash, A true and accurate analysis would have started with the stone itself. Not just a they don’t match any stone found in the Supers. That’s a deceptive line from the get go. They are bought and paid for, They don’t turn a wheel for free ever. But they do offer volunteers to help on projects.

babymick1

How bout they were Coconino and Mogollon sandstone?

Saying they didn't tell us where the rocks came from is deceptive from the get go, Mick. I'll say hogwash too.

 

[gollum]

HA! Apparently not...I missed the Pro Bono part...thank you for the correction!

So the hack scientists lied about the stones for free. This just gets better and better.

While the Desert Archaeology crew says AZ Hwys Mag requested the analysis, Matthew and everyone else have been saying that the Flagg Foundation were clients of Desert Archaeology. Which was it?

Remember, I spoke with two of them. I did not get the impression that they lied at all. They simply relied on what they were taught. They didn't even do an "analysis" on the Stone Mas. I was told the magazine asked that they have a look at the Stone Maps and give them their opinion for the article.

The entire group spent a total of two hours "analyzing" the Stone Maps. Can you imagine the professional repercussions of credentialed Archaeologists giving an opinion of "AUTHENTIC" of the Stone Maps? No provenance. No previous Stone Maps ever documented. All of their associates would have laughed at them and given them no end of grief if they would have said they believed the Stone Maps to be authentic.

THAT is what really happened. It would have been professional suicide to say anything other than what they said, without a LOT of proof saying otherwise!

........anybody not believing me, just ask Greg or Phil Reinhardt if I wasn't on hands and knees with my microscope poring over the stones before they were brought out for everyone to gawk at. That is when I got this pic that is my avatar! I put the gloves on, picked up the H/P Stone, and told Phil to take the picture. Greg looked over and almost had a heart attack! HAHAHA I almost posed with the stone held high over my head like Moses in The Ten Commandments when he cast down the stones! If I would have done that, Greg would have probably excommunicated me!

Mike

 

[azdave35]

I’ll say Hogwash, A true and accurate analysis would have started with the stone itself. Not just a they don’t match any stone found in the Supers. That’s a deceptive line from the get go. They are bought and paid for, They don’t turn a wheel for free ever. But they do offer volunteers to help on projects.

babymick1

mick..the truth be told i bet those silly stones have been tested six ways from sunday by a dozen or so different labs...there has never been one single solitary shred of proof those stones are legit...on the other hand...there is a mountain of proof that they are bogus..if you wish to waste your time following the little lines and dots on the stones then go right ahead...but dont try to convince me to follow them...i'm a dumb hillbilly but i'm not completely ignorant

 

[wrmickel1]

THAT is one of the reasons I said the Stone Maps are a quandary! If Travis made them as a hoax, why did he lie to his Uncle Robert (and even drew him a map showing where he found them)? After he got them back from his uncle, why didn't he tell his poor soon to be widow that they weren't authentic? He went to his death bed knowing his wife believed a lie (or she was a liar too)? Mitchell didn't bring the stone maps into MOEL until they started running out of money. MOEL was originally founded based on a "DEVICE" Mitchell had bought that could detect oil, water, gold, silver, and who knows what else. Heck, people still spend good money on Long Range Locators (LRLs). Kellyco even sells them! That is why I won't buy anything from Kellyco.

Mike

Awe Come on nothing wrong with Kellyco, if your not using the Garrett ground hog your missing a lot.

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

For anyone who seriously is interested, AzHiways did not own the stone maps and had no authority to order DAI to examine them. It was Flagg who owned the stones and only Flagg could enter into the agreement with DAI. DAI received worldwide publicity by being in the AzHiways article so pro bono was a sweet deal for them.

No amount of truth, logic and rationality will satisfy those who have issues with the stone maps and 8those who believe them to be authentic. The conversation always ends the same with straw man non issues like AzHiways controlling the stones being pulled out of someone's behind.

I'm done with the topic and wish everyone well. Life's to short.

true matthew...those who don't believe in the stone map never will because we rely on facts and proof ..and so far there is none

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Remember, I spoke with two of them. I did not get the impression that they lied at all. They simply relied on what they were taught. They didn't even do an "analysis" on the Stone Mas. I was told the magazine asked that they have a look at the Stone Maps and give them their opinion for the article.

The entire group spent a total of two hours "analyzing" the Stone Maps. Can you imagine the professional repercussions of credentialed Archaeologists giving an opinion of "AUTHENTIC" of the Stone Maps? No provenance. No previous Stone Maps ever documented. All of their associates would have laughed at them and given them no end of grief if they would have said they believed the Stone Maps to be authentic.

THAT is what really happened. It would have been professional suicide to say anything other than what they said, without a LOT of proof saying otherwise!

........anybody not believing me, just ask Greg or Phil Reinhardt if I wasn't on hands and knees with my microscope poring over the stones before they were brought out for everyone to gawk at. That is when I got this pic that is my avatar! I put the gloves on, picked up the H/P Stone, and told Phil to take the picture. Greg looked over and almost had a heart attack! HAHAHA I almost posed with the stone held high over my head like Moses in The Ten Commandments when he cast down the stones! If I would have done that, Greg would have probably excommunicated me!

Mike

Thanks, Mike.

Being somewhat familiar with scientific methods, I came to about the same conclusion. It seemed it was just an informal look-see, what are your impressions type of thing. It apparently didn't take them too long to reach the conclusions they did, which should tell us all a lot.

If they were in any way thought to be remotely possibly authentic, they would have taken more time, and probably been very interested in studying them. That's just how scientists are.

I never once thought they lied either. I find the whole issue of Desert Archaeology faking the results hilarious.

Take care, Jim

 

[gollum]

Awe Come on nothing wrong with Kellyco, if your not using the Garrett ground hog your missing a lot.

babymick1

Garrett has nothing I like except the ATX. I have a crap-ton of money invested in some of the best equipment available for what I do. The only thing I haven't found the need to buy yet is GPR. I have a guy for that if I need it though. Also an XRay Fluorescence Gun........but I know a guy if I need one of those too! LOL

Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

mick..the truth be told i bet those silly stones have been tested six ways from sunday by a dozen or so different labs...there has never been one single solitary shred of proof those stones are legit...on the other hand...there is a mountain of proof that they are bogus..if you wish to waste your time following the little lines and dots on the stones then go right ahead...but dont try to convince me to follow them...i'm a dumb hillbilly but i'm not completely ignorant

Well I could give you a little in-site to the stone it self, it was a liquid slurry of mud about 65 million years ago, before turning to stone, and it was baked dry. There’s lots of stone in the supers that match it. So I would believe those who did the evaluations never set foot in the supers.

just my opinion


babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Well I could give you a little in-site to the stone it self, it was a liquid slurry of mud about 65 million years ago, before turning to stone, and it was baked dry. There’s lots of stone in the supers that match it. So I would believe those who did the evaluations never set foot in the supers.

just my opinion


babymick1

do you know of a sandstone deposit in the superstitions?

 

[azdave35]

Garrett has nothing I like except the ATX. I have a crap-ton of money invested in some of the best equipment available for what I do. The only thing I haven't found the need to buy yet is GPR. I have a guy for that if I need it though. Also an XRay Fluorescence Gun........but I know a guy if I need one of those too! LOL

Mike

garrett are decent coin machines but they have never had a good prospecting or nugget machine..

 

[somehiker]

How bout they were Coconino and Mogollon sandstone?

Saying they didn't tell us where the rocks came from is deceptive from the get go, Mick. I'll say hogwash too.

So, whoever carved them must have got around some, since they were said to be buried near Queen Creek and US 60.
Yet, the family is on record as claiming Travis used stone he found in Texas for all of his own carvings.

 

[wrmickel1]

garrett are decent coin machines but they have never had a good prospecting or nugget machine..

Arizona is known for pokes and large nuggets and high concentrations of flakes nuggets in stream beds, The Ground Hog uses a six foot loop. Easily detect a silver dime at 3 to 4 feet. A single picker not so good at that depth. I use my ground Hog on my garret 2500 Pro. It works Great.

babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

So, whoever carved them must have got around some, since they were said to be buried near Queen Creek and US 60.
Yet, the family is on record as claiming Travis used stone he found in Texas for all of his own carvings.

Could be...could also be they were mistaken. After all, Travis would have been driving right by one of the largest quarries of that type in AZ...I mean within sight of the road...while on his way back and forth from TX to OR.

 

[wrmickel1]

So, whoever carved them must have got around some, since they were said to be buried near Queen Creek and US 60.
Yet, the family is on record as claiming Travis used stone he found in Texas for all of his own carvings.

Dave uses the term sand stone but there more to Breccia sand stone cooked/Baked depending on the heat become hard and nearly impossible to breech even with diamond bits.

babymick1. Don’t know if I spelled breccia right.

 

[Oroblanco]

AZDave wrote

"Exactly what tests were actually available to do testing of stone carvings, in the early 1960s?".....eyeballs

"Exactly what does the Peralta Stone Maps have to do with the lost gold mine of Jacob Waltz? "..nothing whatsoever
"Related question, what did Waltz say about these Stone Maps? "....nothing...lol

Thanks Dave that is pretty much what I thought. You still get the points for it though!

Gollum wrote

Roy, the ONLY tests they could have done on them are exactly what I did:

Use a microscope to check the grooves for traces of metal and roots.

You can't say that the grooves were made by a modern drill or dremel, because an old hand drill could leave the same marks (drill dimple). Where DAI said the drill bit jumped out of the groove and made some almost parallel lines, the exact same can be said from making the engravings by dragging a knife blade over and over to make the grooves. Where the surfaces are too smooth and declared as machine sanded, the ancient Egyptians used very fine sand as a polish and polished granite to a mirror like shine.

The DAI Report only shows you what you want to see. Remember, I spoke with two of the people at DAI that "examined" the Stone Maps. You DO KNOW that the entire time the entire team spent with the Stone Maps was about two hours!?! HeII, I spent more time than that with them in 2010 when Phil and Greg let me handle them and microscopically examine them. I found no traces of any metal or roots (like I figured). What I did want that I wasn't allowed to do was to take a sample of the glue that held the Heart Insert together. I would have loved to have seen how old that was!

Mike

Nope. I didn't have any desired outcome of the DAI examination because I wasn't aware of it until after it happened. Also for our members here thinking that DAI was "working to produce an outcome for pay" they were doing it for NOTHING, that is what PRO BONO means.

I don't pretend to be an expert in determining the age of rock inscriptions. DAI does have some expertise in that field. What is your own training and qualifications to support your conclusions?

Potbelly Jim wrote

Well, it would seem that three scientists provided input, according to the Jan 2005 AZ Highways article. The relevant findings are copied from the article, below, emphasis mine:
<snip>

Actually FOUR scientists examined the stones for AZ Highways at DAI, not three, all had the same conclusion that they are modern frauds.

Before this gets further off the rails, Arizona Highways magazine was the outfit that requested for Desert Archaeology Inc to examine the stones, NOT the Flagg Foundation or anyone else. And it was done for FREE.

Then we have members of Travis Tumlinson's own family stating that Travis himself carved the stones, and the other carved stones done by Travis at the family homestead. (The treasure chest, the Spanish galleon etc) I don't care if you (anyone believing in the stone maps veracity) wish to use them as treasure maps, please do and I won't mind a bit if you come back on here and post photos of the treasures you found by following the stone maps. However the red flags are flying, and if you end up empty handed, don't try to blame it on me for not trying to talk you out of it.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[wrmickel1]

AZDave wrote


Thanks Dave that is pretty much what I thought. You still get the points for it though!

Gollum wrote


Nope. I didn't have any desired outcome of the DAI examination because I wasn't aware of it until after it happened. Also for our members here thinking that DAI was "working to produce an outcome for pay" they were doing it for NOTHING, that is what PRO BONO means.

I don't pretend to be an expert in determining the age of rock inscriptions. DAI does have some expertise in that field. What is your own training and qualifications to support your conclusions?

Potbelly Jim wrote


Actually FOUR scientists examined the stones for AZ Highways at DAI, not three, all had the same conclusion that they are modern frauds.

Before this gets further off the rails, Arizona Highways magazine was the outfit that requested for Desert Archaeology Inc to examine the stones, NOT the Flagg Foundation or anyone else. And it was done for FREE.

Then we have members of Travis Tumlinson's own family stating that Travis himself carved the stones, and the other carved stones done by Travis at the family homestead. (The treasure chest, the Spanish galleon etc) I don't care if you (anyone believing in the stone maps veracity) wish to use them as treasure maps, please do and I won't mind a bit if you come back on here and post photos of the treasures you found by following the stone maps. However the red flags are flying, and if you end up empty handed, don't try to blame it on me for not trying to talk you out of it.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

I would say they did it for nothing. Advertising in Desert High ways.

As to the Oak Island donated New War Room by The Irving Group.

Babymick1