kierdan
Full Member
Well 123 maybe you should just walk away, but good luck with the sleepless nights wondering whats there........On the other hand if you got permission and they did'nt......hrm good luck this one bud.
No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....
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gollum
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treasure_hunter32810 said:
OH MY GOD!!
Get a life! Which Indians are you talking about? The ones who ORIGINALLY lived here? Or the Indians that killed them, took their land, and lived there? YOU BLEEDING HEARTS MAKE ME SICK! There is not ONE SINGLE country on the face of this Earth that didn't get what it has without taking it from someone else!
Sorry for the tirade Treasure Hunter, but I have heard this so many times, I just can't stand it. How long has your family lived in the USA? Have your family lived in Florida the entire time? The reason I ask is because what the civilians did to the Indian was far worse than anything the Government did. If your family is from Florida for more than say 150 years, they probably played a part in what happened to the Seminole. Civilians did far more Indian killing than the military. The difference is that civilians killed women, children, dogs, and anything else that moved. Civilians antagonized the Indians into fights, and then called the military in to protect them. All this was done to take their land because of gold, much of the time (in the SouthWest). My family owned slaves. That sucked. But guess what? I never owned slaves! I never killed ONE SINGLE INDIAN! One of my family members freed his slaves, and married one, in 1814, and they stayed married until 1851 (when he died)! Everybody just needs to quit whining about what happened to the poor Indians 130 years ago. Now, they have casinos, and they are taking back all they lost, PLUS SOME!
Best,
Mike
mxtswinger
Sr. Member
As to "claim jumping", IMHO, without the owner's permission there IS NO CLAIM.
I would get my behind up there and try for permission. Either way I would definitely let him know that he has trespassers on his place. If you get permission, and then he catches the other two, you could be blamed for inviting them there. If they don't get caught but he discovers property damage caused by them, you might catch hell for that as well. Good Luck and
Keep on Swingin
Kevin
I would get my behind up there and try for permission. Either way I would definitely let him know that he has trespassers on his place. If you get permission, and then he catches the other two, you could be blamed for inviting them there. If they don't get caught but he discovers property damage caused by them, you might catch hell for that as well. Good Luck and
Keep on Swingin
Kevin
gollum
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mxtswinger is right,
What some call "claim", I call "trespassing", and "theft". The property owner technically owns everything on (or under) that property.
Joking aside, I would contact the owner, and tell him about the other guys. Not necessarily about what they found. That way, the owner will keep an eye out for them (that will keep anything there safer for you), and likely grant you permission to hunt whenever you want. You might tell him that you think they found some coins.
Getting permission is the absolute best way to go about it. With permission, you can hunt all day, and not look over your shoulder every 5 seconds. Who knows you might even make a new friend (The Owner).
Mike
What some call "claim", I call "trespassing", and "theft". The property owner technically owns everything on (or under) that property.
Joking aside, I would contact the owner, and tell him about the other guys. Not necessarily about what they found. That way, the owner will keep an eye out for them (that will keep anything there safer for you), and likely grant you permission to hunt whenever you want. You might tell him that you think they found some coins.
Getting permission is the absolute best way to go about it. With permission, you can hunt all day, and not look over your shoulder every 5 seconds. Who knows you might even make a new friend (The Owner).
Mike
Old California
Full Member
Hey gang,
Most everyone at one time or another have trespassed, I did and have learned from my mistakes. Let's not rush to judgment on our fellow treasure hunters, We've all made mistakes and those that have learned by them and are now leading by example.
My friends here in California know I have made many mistakes and they also know I have changed my ways and now ask for permission to search older sites of long ago, It's the right thing to do.........So brothers and sisters, let's help each other with good advice and lead by example. Kind words and good advice go allot further than bashing our forum friends, We are family here
Paul (Ca)
Most everyone at one time or another have trespassed, I did and have learned from my mistakes. Let's not rush to judgment on our fellow treasure hunters, We've all made mistakes and those that have learned by them and are now leading by example.
My friends here in California know I have made many mistakes and they also know I have changed my ways and now ask for permission to search older sites of long ago, It's the right thing to do.........So brothers and sisters, let's help each other with good advice and lead by example. Kind words and good advice go allot further than bashing our forum friends, We are family here
Paul (Ca)
Marty-Graw
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i agree with MXT as to the "claim jumping" ..... if you know of a park or beach that has given up a lot of keepers and you decide to hunt it, are you claim jumping?.....no because those are public areas....just because this is private land you think it would be claim jumping.....BUT the other 2 guys did not have permission so therefore THEY did not have a legitimate claim..... kinda like finding a stream that you can tell has been panned before without a claim filed on it.....FAIR GAME!!!
Good Luck and show us some pics of your finds
Marty
Good Luck and show us some pics of your finds
Marty
treasurekidd
Bronze Member
Here's my take: I would lay low for a little while. As much as I can't stand the idea of the 2 morons hunting someone elses property without permission, I don't like the idea of ratting them out and then jumping the claim. I'm not worried about them, but if this turns into a battle, than the farmer kick everyone out, post NO TRESSPASSING signs, and maybe gets himself a detector and hunts it himself. As hard as it would be, I'd lay low for a few weeks, eyeball the spot every now and then, and then, when they are probably finished, go get permission from the farmer and dig up what they missed. Good luck, let us know how it turns out, and what you find with permission!!
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Gollum,
Excuse me for stepping on your toes.
Yes what the civilians did to the Indian was far worse than anything the Government did, yet it was condoned by the government, it was enforced by the government, and the treaties were broken by the government when the civilians wanted them broken because they found something on "someone else's land" which was the only reason I posted it the way I did. I was not trying to step on yours or any one elses toes. I was simply adding a twist to the story of ownership of land.
Check the history, the various tribes occupied their same general area of the country for thousands of years till the eastern tribes began to be forced west as the Indian lands in the east were being stolen, thus forcing those tribes west as well.
Before the horse was brought to this country, there was very little mass movement of entire tribes to new regions. Yes its true stronger tribes moved weaker ones to different areas, but they did not take an entire country.
(Making a few dollars on some casinos, doesn't really make up for the total annihilation of the majority of the tribes.)
As far as my family goes, they were poor white farmers, owned no slaves. My great, great, grand father on my mothers side from Florida fought in the civil war on the Confederate side, was captured and imprisoned till the end of the War of "Yankee Aggression".
My apologys if I affected your blood preasure.
Excuse me for stepping on your toes.
Yes what the civilians did to the Indian was far worse than anything the Government did, yet it was condoned by the government, it was enforced by the government, and the treaties were broken by the government when the civilians wanted them broken because they found something on "someone else's land" which was the only reason I posted it the way I did. I was not trying to step on yours or any one elses toes. I was simply adding a twist to the story of ownership of land.
Check the history, the various tribes occupied their same general area of the country for thousands of years till the eastern tribes began to be forced west as the Indian lands in the east were being stolen, thus forcing those tribes west as well.
Before the horse was brought to this country, there was very little mass movement of entire tribes to new regions. Yes its true stronger tribes moved weaker ones to different areas, but they did not take an entire country.
(Making a few dollars on some casinos, doesn't really make up for the total annihilation of the majority of the tribes.)
As far as my family goes, they were poor white farmers, owned no slaves. My great, great, grand father on my mothers side from Florida fought in the civil war on the Confederate side, was captured and imprisoned till the end of the War of "Yankee Aggression".
My apologys if I affected your blood preasure.
nhbenz
Gold Member
RE: "lay low": Well, I'm going the other way with this... these guys are stealing. They will be back... why wouldn't they? Greg, I'd inform the farmer of the situation. You're now burdened with the info of whats happening... do the right thing. You'll be rewarded. They are thieves. I have zero tolerance. I have NO problem ratting out a thief. These same people would swipe something off of your front porch if they wanted it. -my opinion. -Ben
Jason in TN
Bronze Member
There is no Private property in America. You just rent it from the Government.
Don't believe me don't pay your taxes and they will come and take it back.
Should you dig with out permission. NO but private property that is a joke.
Don't believe me don't pay your taxes and they will come and take it back.
Should you dig with out permission. NO but private property that is a joke.
Southcacalaky
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Some very interesting points here. On the lighter side of things, I never knew there were any red neck roads that far north... Hmmmm. Ya'll Have a nice Day!!!
gollum
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Not really Treasure hunter,
Just for a second. Your facts about the Amerindian are not correct (about the Eastern Tribes moving Westward). Long before the Spanish, The French, or the English came to the New World, there were tribal wars in which the victor either anihilated, let join the tribe, or a combination thereof, any tribe they beat. There were several tribes of peaceful hunter gatherer, semi-nomadic basket weavers. Well, the Apache decided they wanted that land. Guess who got it? Same thing all over the world. The only tribes that were around when the Whites got here, were ones who9 had fought and won the land they had taken from them. By us taking the peaceful Indians' Land, are you talking about the Algonquin? The Indians who sided with the French in the French and Indian Wars? Or maybe the Iroquois who sided with the British? Both of those tribes had fought each other in the past, and commited some of the worst atrocities of that war.
You didn't step on my toes, and I apologize for coming of so harshly, but I'm just tired of people who see history through rose colored glasses, and try to foist it on us. What is worse are those people who cry about how badly we treated the blacks with slavery. I didn't own any slaves! The tribes in Africa used to massacre the entire opposing tribe (even the animals) after defeating them in a war. They used to massacre each other, that is, until they found it was more profitable selling the losers to the slave traders. That's how most slaves were made to be slaves. We have people now still crying and hand wringing about how bad slavery was. Of course it was bad, but that was 200 years ago. OOOOPS! Preaching again. Sorry.
Mike
Just for a second. Your facts about the Amerindian are not correct (about the Eastern Tribes moving Westward). Long before the Spanish, The French, or the English came to the New World, there were tribal wars in which the victor either anihilated, let join the tribe, or a combination thereof, any tribe they beat. There were several tribes of peaceful hunter gatherer, semi-nomadic basket weavers. Well, the Apache decided they wanted that land. Guess who got it? Same thing all over the world. The only tribes that were around when the Whites got here, were ones who9 had fought and won the land they had taken from them. By us taking the peaceful Indians' Land, are you talking about the Algonquin? The Indians who sided with the French in the French and Indian Wars? Or maybe the Iroquois who sided with the British? Both of those tribes had fought each other in the past, and commited some of the worst atrocities of that war.
You didn't step on my toes, and I apologize for coming of so harshly, but I'm just tired of people who see history through rose colored glasses, and try to foist it on us. What is worse are those people who cry about how badly we treated the blacks with slavery. I didn't own any slaves! The tribes in Africa used to massacre the entire opposing tribe (even the animals) after defeating them in a war. They used to massacre each other, that is, until they found it was more profitable selling the losers to the slave traders. That's how most slaves were made to be slaves. We have people now still crying and hand wringing about how bad slavery was. Of course it was bad, but that was 200 years ago. OOOOPS! Preaching again. Sorry.
Mike
Pennyworth
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I would definitely ask the farmer for permission to hunt the area. You can't lose anything but you just might gain a lot. I also think you shouldn't mention the other two guys hunting the area,keep you nose out of that.
You also have a moral dilemma here,since you already know that the land has coins of value. Is it ok to keep every Colonial coin you find and not cut the farmer in some way? If you get permission and it's verbal and you show any of those coins to the farmer he may want all of them. So maybe it would be best to get written permisssion with some sort of agreement as to what you are willing to share with him. You both deserve to share in the finds since it's his land and you are doing the work to find them. What's fair is fair!
I know the code of ethics and I abide by it, and I do get permission to hunt private property. I've been tempted by some of the areas I see and just want to jump out there and swing my detector but I don't! I know the guys in my metal detecting club hunt areas without permission and I don't agree with that at all. Guess what they always find lots of old silver coins because they are not honest, and I think greedy. If that's how you guys want to roll, then by all means do it. It does give the hobby a bad name and you guys all know better than that!
You also have a moral dilemma here,since you already know that the land has coins of value. Is it ok to keep every Colonial coin you find and not cut the farmer in some way? If you get permission and it's verbal and you show any of those coins to the farmer he may want all of them. So maybe it would be best to get written permisssion with some sort of agreement as to what you are willing to share with him. You both deserve to share in the finds since it's his land and you are doing the work to find them. What's fair is fair!
I know the code of ethics and I abide by it, and I do get permission to hunt private property. I've been tempted by some of the areas I see and just want to jump out there and swing my detector but I don't! I know the guys in my metal detecting club hunt areas without permission and I don't agree with that at all. Guess what they always find lots of old silver coins because they are not honest, and I think greedy. If that's how you guys want to roll, then by all means do it. It does give the hobby a bad name and you guys all know better than that!
Old California
Full Member
Hello Paul is dead and Green1,
Let's put this behind us, Anger or stupidly "or both" from within makes us say things we regret later. Without pointing fingers, let's forget this minor incident and be freinds
Live every moment to the fullest,
Paul (Ca)
Let's put this behind us, Anger or stupidly "or both" from within makes us say things we regret later. Without pointing fingers, let's forget this minor incident and be freinds
Live every moment to the fullest,
Paul (Ca)
on the Indians & slavery,
dekalb33 just beat me to it.
I Don't want to have to start Deleting.
This thread is realy taking off.
There are a few Good points here, and some great suggestions.
I hate Claim jumpers, However I have to Side with those
who say "there is No Claim to Jump Here" if they were being honest
about not having permission.
They may have just been afraid if you knew the farmer was friendly
you would ask also, or if you knew they already had permission, you might ask them if you can swing too.
I wouldn't wait. odds are they won't be back, for awhile, for fear
you may report them. and if I'm wrong on this, Why let them have more.
as Gypsy Said. Do a Little Research
ask for permission
If the Farmer is willing,
Stake a Legit Claim.
and Consider asking the Farmer if you can put a few No Trespassing Signs up till your Done
dekalb33 just beat me to it.
I Don't want to have to start Deleting.
This thread is realy taking off.
There are a few Good points here, and some great suggestions.
I hate Claim jumpers, However I have to Side with those
who say "there is No Claim to Jump Here" if they were being honest
about not having permission.
They may have just been afraid if you knew the farmer was friendly
you would ask also, or if you knew they already had permission, you might ask them if you can swing too.
I wouldn't wait. odds are they won't be back, for awhile, for fear
you may report them. and if I'm wrong on this, Why let them have more.
as Gypsy Said. Do a Little Research
ask for permission
If the Farmer is willing,
Stake a Legit Claim.
and Consider asking the Farmer if you can put a few No Trespassing Signs up till your Done
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All I did was say "here is twist to the story" I did not mean to step on any ones toes. Wasn't trying to start anything other then show a comparsion on the ownership of land.
I hunted indian artifacts for years. I always tried to get permission for walking someone's land. I asked anyone I met who owned land in Missouri. I switched to hunting creeks as they were much more productive, ownership was a little more grey as many times the creeks divided the land or were own by the government.
On one farm I got permission for a man in his mid 40's, but his father walked up on me while I was hunting and asked why I was there and he didn't care if his son who was half owner gave me permission, he didnt want me there.
Did I return, yes, he was plowing through and destroying the remains of an ancient village that was doccumented by French trapers in the 1600's. He could care less about the artifacts he was destroying. Large pieces of pots were every where, as were points and were being turned over and destroyed by the plow. His son said, "dad said no, BUT if you sneak in through the back he want know". I only wnet when there was no crops up that could be damaged by walking.
I hunted indian artifacts for years. I always tried to get permission for walking someone's land. I asked anyone I met who owned land in Missouri. I switched to hunting creeks as they were much more productive, ownership was a little more grey as many times the creeks divided the land or were own by the government.
On one farm I got permission for a man in his mid 40's, but his father walked up on me while I was hunting and asked why I was there and he didn't care if his son who was half owner gave me permission, he didnt want me there.
Did I return, yes, he was plowing through and destroying the remains of an ancient village that was doccumented by French trapers in the 1600's. He could care less about the artifacts he was destroying. Large pieces of pots were every where, as were points and were being turned over and destroyed by the plow. His son said, "dad said no, BUT if you sneak in through the back he want know". I only wnet when there was no crops up that could be damaged by walking.
mxtswinger said:
Great points here, not to mention the possibility that a trespassers might get arrested, their metal detectors taken away and siezed and heavey fines imposed. Then there's the newspaper headlines. "Treasure hunters arrested on farmer's property". None of us need that kind of negative press.
There's a lot of decisions to be made every day in life and some are difficult. Most of us have thoughts both ways but it's always best to not let greed get the best of you while deciding and it's important to always look at "the worst case sernerio" and then ask yourself, "is it worth it?".
It also just goes to show you that there are plenty of great areas with awesome treasures out there.
With a little research and luck, they can be found.
Best of luck to you!
BDoo
alwayslookin
Hero Member
"RE: "lay low": Well, I'm going the other way with this... these guys are stealing. They will be back... why wouldn't they? Greg, I'd inform the farmer of the situation. You're now burdened with the info of whats happening... do the right thing. You'll be rewarded. They are thieves. I have zero tolerance. I have NO problem ratting out a thief. These same people would swipe something off of your front porch if they wanted it. -my opinion. -Ben"
Perfectly said Ben.
C'mon all think about this.
Dave
Perfectly said Ben.
C'mon all think about this.
Dave
gollum
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Say you're in Church, and see somebody stealing from the Poor Box, would you have a problem telling the Minister about it? Same thing. Stealing is Stealing.
I am of the mind that they will return as soon as possible. They know you saw what they found, and since they know the value, they will want to go back and get all they can before you go in.
Whatever you do , do it quick. God only knows what other historical artifacts and coins are still in the ground.
Mike
I am of the mind that they will return as soon as possible. They know you saw what they found, and since they know the value, they will want to go back and get all they can before you go in.
Whatever you do , do it quick. God only knows what other historical artifacts and coins are still in the ground.
Mike
