NOAA, Spain Announce Cooperative Arrangement

[Alexandre]

NOAA, Spain Announce Cooperative Arrangement to Preserve Maritime Underwater Heritage

December 1, 2010

NOAA’s Office of National Marine Sanctuaries and Spain’s Ministry of Culture announced today the signing of a memorandum of understanding outlining a framework to jointly identify, protect, manage and preserve underwater cultural resources of mutual interest within their respective areas of responsibility.

The arrangement calls for the exchange of information on actual or potential identification and location of underwater cultural resources, research and archeological examination of the resources, provision of information concerning potential or actual unauthorized disturbances of underwater cultural resources, cooperation with nongovernmental organizations engaged in historical or archeological programs compatible with the objectives of the arrangement, and preparation and dissemination of educational and outreach materials.

“Today marks the beginning of a more formal and active interaction between NOAA and Spain as we learn from each other’s archives and share that information for a better understanding and appreciation of Spain’s important maritime cultural legacy in America,” said Daniel J. Basta, director of NOAA’s National Marine Sanctuary Program.

“The heritage spawned by Spain’s interactions with the sea and the exploration and settlement of our coasts by Spanish mariners dates back 500 years,” said James P. Delgado, Ph.D., NOAA National Marine Sanctuary Maritime Heritage Program director. “This arrangement will give us access to the incredible records in the archives and libraries of Spain.”

An example of the type of work that will benefit from the new arrangement is the discovery of a wreck that may be the Spanish ship San Agustin, which was lost in November 1595 in the California waters of the Gulf of Farallones National Marine Sanctuary and Point Reyes National Seashore. The U.S. National Park Service located an offshore wreck site during a survey of Drakes Bay in 1982-1983. No excavation of the buried wreck site offshore has been done to confirm that it is all or a portion of the lost galleon. The National Marine Sanctuary Program, working with partners in Spain as well as the Park Service, will have a strengthened ability to discuss appropriate actions to better understand and document that shipwreck in the future.

NOAA’s mission is to understand and predict changes in the Earth's environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and to conserve and manage our coastal and marine resources. Visit us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/usnoaagov.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20101201_spain.html

 

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[bikerlawyer]

The article states "The U.S. National Park Service located an offshore wreck site during a survey of Drakes Bay in 1982-1983".

That's funny, Bob Marx knew it was there in the 50's.

http://www.ssssllc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Californias-Oldest-Shipwreck.pdf

 

[mariner]

People have known the approximate position of the San Agustin ever since it sank it 1595. Marx might have found some artifacts fom the wreck, but as far as I know he never located the wreck itself. Indeed, if I remember correctly, there is a certain Dutch member of this forum who believes that he actually located the wreck some time ago.

Mariner

 

[Panfilo]

In 1987 treasure hunter Robert Marx began to show considerable interest in the wreck. Marx sought, and received, permission from the state to locate and salvage the vessel. Fortunately, the wreck is held as tightly to the sea bottom by bureaucracy as by any gripping sand. The location of the San Agustin falls under the jurisdiction of several state and federal agencies, including the National Park Service, NOAA, and the State Lands Commission. Marx’s interest was met with acrimony. One NPS official at the time threatened to “put the cuffs” on Marx if he so much as set foot on park property. The local press reveled in the “news” of treasure so close by. Public hearings concerning permit granting were sponsored by NOAA in 1987. Despite a great deal of early publicity garnered by Marx from a sympathetic reporter, and an abortive survey in the bay, nothing came of these efforts. His permit was not renewed after 1989.

Modern interest in the San Agustin can be traced to Hubert Bancroft (1886:96-97) who briefly discusses the fate of the vessel in his classic History of California. Bancroft evidently was not using primary source materials and flatly states that he believes the ship was not wrecked, and that only some cargo was lost. He probably was misinterpreting statements made by Sebastian Viscaino who undertook a voyage in 1602 to locate and salvage the cargo of the San Agustin. That Viscaino believed it would be possible to salvage the ship is relevant to our research. His pilot, Francisco Bolaños, had been a crew member of the ill fated San Agustin. (Wagner 1924). Viscaino’s comments are crucial. His own comments allude to statements by other mariners; and refers in such a matter of fact manner to information not contained in the Cermeño document, that we are left wondering if other documents once existed that pointed more clearly to the wreck site, which have not survived.

This paper was first presented at the Conference for the Society of Historical Archaeology, held in Corpus Christi, Texas written by Marco Maniketti,
Panfilo

 

[Salvor6]

NOAA may cooperate with Spain but if White Feather finds the wreck first, Spain will never know!

 

[mariner]

Vizcaino's logs add nothing of value with respect to the San Agustin. When he first reached the Bay, he did not stop at first because there was a favorable wind taking them south. Then a strong wind struck them and caused them to try to get into the Bay. They had to anchor outside and then a fresh offshore wind struck them and obliged them to set sail again. Two Indians in canoes approached the ship, inviting them to land, but there was no actual contact, or exchange of words.

The San Agustin was not really a Manila Galleon. Cermeno was hired to scout the California coast, looking for a place where the Manila Galleons could harbor on their way to Mexico, allowing the crews to rest and recuperate, and to obtain fresh water. Cermeno was allowed to pick up some Asian goods in the Philippines for trading in Mexico, so that he could help finance the voyage.

Mariner

 

[Mackaydon]

Memories.......I recall sitting with Marx at California Coastal Commission meetings regarding his partnership's application. After giving an approximate location to where he believed more artifacts would be located, he was denied his application. Soon thereafter, representatives of the governing authorities dove on the site and found nothing. Marx's "X marks the spot" is still on a chart, but Bob didn't have permission to work it--nor do I believe he disclosed his chart to more than a very few.
Don........

 

[cornelis 816]

I have to disagree with the remark that the San Augustin was not a Manilla galleon . She was a Manilla galleon but Cermano was instructed to check the coast of California for suitable harbors . I have discovered the San Augustin long before Bob Marx even had the notion to try to find her . The X on the map did not tell me anything . The coastline was so caved in that in order to find the San Augustin you have to look quite a few miles to seaward . The garbage pits of the indian tribes along the high cliffs of the pont contained plenty of blue-porcelain for Marx to fill his salvage bags . A lot of iron bars were there too . The value of the San Augustin was next to nothing . Cornelius

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

NOAA may cooperate with Spain but if White Feather finds the wreck first, Spain will never know!

That's great, White feather will dredge the site and will melt down any artifacts or does he try to sell them on the black
market
Ossy

 

[Panfilo]

Cermeño piloted the San Agustin to within a few miles of Cape Mendocino at latitude 42 degrees or slightly lower at 41 ½ degrees, and began charting the coast southward. On November 5, 1595 he rounded Pt Reyes and entered, in his words, a “horseshoe shaped bay,” which he refers to as Bahia Grande, but subsequently christens as Bahia de San Francisco (not the site of present day San Francisco Bay). According to Cermeño, natives immediately paddled out to the vessel on boats made of reeds. Perhaps the natives remembered the visit by Francis Drake to the same bay a score of years earlier. Cermeño anchored the ship an harquebus shot from shore near the mouth of a stream, which must be identified as Drake’s estero and not under shelter of the promontory that forms the point, as Viscaino indicates on a map as his own anchorage in 1602 (Del Portillo 1982:181-238)
Cermeño’s detailed account of events leading to this position are clear enough to establish that he was indeed near the Limintour spit that juts out in front of Drakes Estero. However he is absolutely mute on what happened next. It seems that Cermeño had intended to use this bay as base of operations and had ordered the crew ashore to assemble a plank boat, which had been transported disassembled, to be used for in-shore exploration. With nearly all the crew ashore exploring, the ship was inexplicably wrecked (Henry Wagner 1924:5).
From Marc Meniketti 's paper

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I have a pretty decent idea where this is also from walking the beach, looking or picking up stuff, and the data studies I have done.

I would identify this area as the Spanish Shoal, or Spanish Rock. There are quite a few different pieces of wreckage submereged in the area, but this one looks really promising from the positive indications of the cargo that can be seen. Nov. 30th was the 415th anniversary of the wreck.

All indications are that this was indeed a Manila galleon. Manila galleons could be privately owned before about 1630, and were. Ceremeno was from what I have read primarily one of the Lima route traders, and would have probably reloaded and headed for South America after stopping in Acapulco. The San Agustin probably replaced the San Pedro, which Govenor Luis Desmarinas may have appropriated in Manila for the military campain they were trying to stage in Siam.

Letters from Desmarinas and the next Govenor to the Spanish King later affirm the fact that it was the Manila Galleon sent that year.

 

[mariner]

The Manila galleons did not go to South America. They just kept on the same route, from Manila to Acapulco and then back to Manila. Their task was not to explore and find suitable harbors, as Cermeno did in the San Agustin. Their loads were far too value to risk while exploring potential harbors.

Mariner

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

It was a feeder line. They had the fair, but some of the stuff was offloaded specificly for South America, or sold there. If you look far enough into the material, they will mention ships coming to Manila from South American ports. There is one Govenor who complains about their presence in a letter to the King. There are also written descriptions of merchants selling oriental silks on a street in Cuzco.


I'm good with whatever they decide to do with the wreck. It would be another magnet for tourists to the park, but I got the feeling they downplay the wrecks there and focus on the wildlife and outdoors enviornment. I would not want to get bit by a shark on that beach. They are small but every year I see a manta ray with a 5-inch bite out of it washed up.

 

[cornelis 816]

Anyone trying to salvage the San Augustin ? I 'd say forget it . There is nothing left of this ship . The indians at that time , living at the coast , were smart enough to dive on the wreck and salvage anything available . Look at the pictures . Do you think the iron spikes swam ashore ? And then the porcelain ! Porcelain does not swim that good either . No......the indians were there before us and did not leave anything worthwile . Besides the cargo of the San Augustin ( exept for some personal trinkets ) existed out of Bees wax and some porcelain . No gold or silver . When you do your research you willcome to the same conclusion . Sir Francis Drake did not leave any porcelain either . It was too valuable . Have fun . Cornelius

 

[mariner]

Drake didn't leave anything at Drakes Bay because he was never there.

I don't remember ever hearing about beeswax found at Drakes Bay.

Mariner

 

[cornelis 816]

The indians used the bees wax .

 

[cornelis 816]

Mariner . You stated that Drake never was in California ( Drake's estero ) . Can you explain to us how you came to that concusion . If you make a statement you should be able to back it up . Cornelius

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Cornelis 816 makes a good case for the condition of the wreck and I would have to agree. From what I understand of it, the indians would have been able to reach parts of it, as well as scouring the shore for boards and trade goods washed up.

I have found a piece of beeswax there opposite the site, and turned it into the park service. I have also found small sections of candles.

I think there is still good stuff to find there but the question is, how much must be disturbed at the site in order to find the really good stuff? And I tend to agree that there is little of monetary value at the site. What is there is for people to learn about and gawk at the way people look at stuff in a museum.

 

[mariner]

Cornelius,

I am just in the process of putting up a website that will adress Drake's true movements. It will be on-line in about a week's time. I will post the link then.

Mariner

 

[VOC]

www.indrakeswake.co.uk