Not possible digging that deep.

[bearcat6]

I was just sitting here thinking about another possible theory here and ya know they now have been looking for Hilter in Argentina and spain and maybe here all along he ended up having all his loot in the money pit and died trying to get to the bottom and therefore that's why there is a supposed body down there and could answer where the all the supposed treasures came from? This could clear up a lot of things:laughing...Now it all makes sense...

I started watching Hunting Hitler the other night, and then they found him living in a storage unit that was up for auction, he was making moonshine.

 

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[n2mini]

Believer's comments like the one above.

a) "Cornish miner's abilities" and the

b) "300 yrs. ago no one to see them and know what they were doing ..."


All such believer's statements bring me to this logical challenge back to them: Even if you could devise reasons and schemes that something *could* conceivably happen, still does not mean: "Ergo, it happened". For example: I could devise a means and a scheme and a reason why a 10 yr. girl with only one arm rowed a raft from San Francisco to Hawaii in 1875. Any objection that anyone could raise, I could find a way in which is *could* be possible.

Eg.: if you said "she'd run out of water", I could say "she went during the rainy season and brought lots of water jugs along. If you said "she'd run out of food", I could say "she brought a fishing pole". If you said "it would take several years of drifting I could say "she arrived in Hawaii years later when she was now 13. If you said "why in the world would she even do such a thing?" , I could muse all sorts of reasons.......

But NONE OF THESE proves that it actually happened. In other words, to simply find some far out crazy hypothetical reason why someone would be so stupid or physically able, still doesn't mean: "Ergo, it therefore had to have happened".

So the burden of proof that something historically happened does not rest on the skeptic's ability to dis-prove it. On the contrary: The burden of proof rests on the persons making the preposterous claim that it DID happen. Simply devising an elaborate scheme of how it *could* have been done, or why a person *might* have wanted to do it, doesn't mean: "Ergo therefore it did, of necessity, happen".

I agree. I'm not saying anything is there or was ever there, but we do know for a fact that someone was there and atleast built the "the finger filter thingys" not sure why of course. I'm just playing devils advocate to the ones who say it couldn't happen. I for one hope someone finds some kind of treasure someday if for nothing else it makes for a great story and it gives all that do believe ammo to give the ones that didn't believe a hard time about it.. so far no one can prove for a fact that someone did bury something there just as no one can prove they didn't. Seems to be more people on here that are non believers yet they are more involved in all this then the ones that do believe... Not sure what that says other then the non believers have more free time to be on here ripping the tv show and the brothers apart about it...

 

[Roadhse2]

Obviously the 'non-believers' have an interest in knowing the truth about Oak Island and are naturally skeptical of all the claims made, with no verifiable proof to date. Where the 'true believers' will take any unverified find and use it as absolute proof, and what the show is geared towards. With the internet age it is exceedingly difficult to say something 'is' when it's 'not'. to debunk claims through a bit of research is easier than ever. The Roman sword for instance....or a railroad spike. I don't fault the Lagina's at all, though they did fall into the drama/suspense angle of these type of shows in short order. It seems to me, and just my opinion, they went from a quest to find an answer, to a formula to sell another season of tv time. To date they have not done one thing or found any item that Dan B. hadn't already back in the 70's. Just now it can all be rehashed on prime time tv. The real winner here is Dan B. if the reported $7 million he received for half of the rights/ownership of Oak island are true, not that he doesn't deserve it for his time, and risks, put in on the quest.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... we do know for a fact that someone was there and atleast built the "the finger filter thingys" not sure why of course. ......

After all the years of efforts, and all the "he said she said" conjectures, I'm wiling to question even "the fingers". I think there's already been natural attribution/explanations given to it. And/or over-optimistic dreamy attributions given to things which could be naturally occurring underground water-channel. I mean: If I dig deep enough in MY OWN front yard, I too will hit water that fills in my hole. Does that mean there's "secret chamber boobie-trap channels constructed" ? Of course not. It just means I hit the water table. Doh! And after that, I can point to anything in the hills around my house, and begin to conjecture supposedly man-made causes of it. That's what treasure fever does after all: Cloud the intellect.

.... so far no one can prove for a fact that someone did bury something there just as no one can prove they didn't.....

Sure. And no one can "prove there's not invisible leprechauns under your house". All you'd have to say is "they're invisible, thus you can't dis-prove it". But whose burden is it to prove ? An astounding claim like that has the burden resting on the leprechaun believer to prove. Not the dis-believer to dis-prove.

.... Seems to be more people on here that are non believers yet they are more involved in all this then the ones that do believe... Not sure what that says. ...

Ppeaking for myself, it says the following: I've md'd for 40 yrs. now. And during that time chased 100's of leads. To supposed stage stops, caches, picnic grounds, swim holes, etc...... And of course, most end up being lame. And a few end up producing good key stuff. So after many decades, you begin to study the trends of each lead. So that GOING FORWARD, you don't pursue silly legend ghost stuff that wastes time.

....what the show is geared towards. .....

Hollywood sensationalism ratings wouldn't "sell", if they were boring and lacked sensation. And what they "gear" towards, is the human psyche to want ssseeeooooo hard to believe in any treasure legends. We are all so prone to fall for them, and believe them. "Lest you be left out".

I too used to sucker up to any story that came my way back when I started in the 1970s & 80's. Someone would come up and say "I know where a treasure is buried" blah blah blah. And I would sit spell-bound on the edge of my seat, chomping at the bit to get my detector onto it ! haha

 

[Roadhse2]

"the finger filter thingys"

After tons of looking at all of the theories, researching as much as I could from my arm chair via the net...

I am pretty convinced the finger drains were part of a system to concentrate salt water to be boiled down and used as a resource for salt. The other findings in the immediate area lead to this conclusion as well...they dump into a well type of pit for storage until boiled, there is a rock foundation nearby above high tide that shows evidence of having been used as a burn pit (burn't earth inside, scorched rocks, etc.). There is a reason for such an enterprise. fisheries were in the area from the late 1600's, they needed salt to preserve their product for shipping, salt was taxed heavily when brought in from Europe, so to obtain it locally was an advantage. This type of system was also used in Europe to recover salt from seawater, so there is a precedence of use. There is a wood timber structure that had been uncovered, that to me looks as though it is rafter sections of a roof for a warehouse or fishing dock to process and store fish.

Of course nothing treasure related so does not get much notice, but is more likely than treasure tales...

 

[gazzahk]

"the finger filter thingys".....I am pretty convinced the finger drains were part of a system to concentrate salt water...

I think the beach was setup to dry fish. The coconut fibred and eel grass were to stop the beach just turning to mud when it rained or when hundreds of fish were put on the beach..

 

[lokiblossom]

All such believer's statements bring me to this logical challenge back to them: Even if you could devise reasons and schemes that something *could* conceivably happen, still does not mean: "Ergo, it happened". For example: I could devise a means and a scheme and a reason why a 10 yr. girl with only one arm rowed a raft from San Francisco to Hawaii in 1875. Any objection that anyone could raise, I could find a way in which is *could* be possible.

Eg.: if you said "she'd run out of water", I could say "she went during the rainy season and brought lots of water jugs along. If you said "she'd run out of food", I could say "she brought a fishing pole". If you said "it would take several years of drifting I could say "she arrived in Hawaii years later when she was now 13. If you said "why in the world would she even do such a thing?" , I could muse all sorts of reasons.......

Quite a lame example T in C! But, lets assume the girl was just a little older, say about 25, and was known to have made long voyages before, which means she was certainly capable of this one. Also, it was known she, at the time, had seaworthy equipment and had a good reason to make this voyage. Then, she left clues with very good friends to where she was going. And before she disappeared for some unknown reason, she had sent word back to these same friends of where she had been at the time.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Ladies, Gentlemen. A pit had been dug, platforms had been made every so often, a pully system had been used, Drainage / flooding tunnels
had been constructed, etc.etc.

I personally believe that the pit was a diversonary project, and a horisonatal access tunnel was constructed above the high water mark leading to a depository room elsewhere on the island which could be eaisly accessed with a shallow excavation This depository room was precisely located near by at a higher level.

The access tunnel could very easily be hidden from any excavators by simply backfilling it with origional materiel for several ft

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Ladies, Gentlemen. A pit had been dug, platforms had been made every so often, a pully system had been used, Drainage / flooding tunnels
had been constructed, etc.etc.

I personally believe that the pit was a diversonary project, and a horisonatal access tunnel was constructed above the high water mark leading to a depository room elsewhere on the island which could be eaisly accessed with a shallow excavation This depository room was precisely located near by at a higher level.

The access tunnel could very easily be hidden from any excavators by simply backfilling it with origional materiel for several ft

Here we go again...... No evidence has ever been shown that platforms or flood tunnels ever existed. Make believe stories from individuals seeking investors to line their pockets. The only wood brought out of the money pit was wood left there by previous excavations.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

I think the beach was setup to dry fish. The coconut fibred and eel grass were to stop the beach just turning to mud when it rained or when hundreds of fish were put on the beach..

This is a very logical explanation and has far more credibility than any other position on the fibers.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Here we go again...... No evidence has ever been shown that platforms or flood tunnels ever existed.....

Anyone doing research on the evolution of the story knows what you're saying to be true. The first mention of any such thing said "marks" at such & such footage or intervals. Right ? Then later, someone expanded on this and said "platforms" and "logs" at those intervals. See how the telephone game works ? The original person digging had only said "marks".

And I even question "marks" as that too could be someone's fanciful "treasure fever" imagination of anything he sees being a sure-fired symbol, blah blah

Notice that if the telephone game is so easily shown in this one point, notice how believers now incorporate the notion into their re-tellings. And I say this with all due respect Real of Tayopa. Because you are an asset and well-respected to all discussions on the md'ing forums here !

 

[Roadhse2]

I agree Tom, for the most part...

As I noted earlier, even if there were platforms found, there is a good reason for them to be there. When digging a hole of depth, it is more efficient to daisy chain the material being taken out by a bucket brigade of workers standing on platforms at intervals easy to reach than to send a bucket or two up by rope and pulley. In the same way the emptied buckets would be transferred back down the hole to be refilled. In this way a continuous removal of dirt could be accomplished with no wait times for the rope and pulley method. The platforms would also offer a way to climb down into the shaft and back out with just a short movable ladder between each platform instead of continually adding onto a full depth ladder that would then need to be anchored into the walls. The rope and pulley set up could be used for moving heavier materials, like tools or shoring timbers, water for workers etc...

If each platform covered a third to half the shaft and was offset from each other they would also provide a safety net for workers if they should fall...10 feet instead of a 100, plus if offset you are always facing the worker below and above you handing up another bucket, more efficient use of movement, which relates to more efficient use of time to dig the shaft...

 

[boogeyman]

Here we go again...... No evidence has ever been shown that platforms or flood tunnels ever existed. Make believe stories from individuals seeking investors to line their pockets. The only wood brought out of the money pit was wood left there by previous excavations.

My question that keeps sticking with the flood tunnels is why haven't they or anyone found remains of these flood tunnels inside the shaft? Could it be that the flooding is just from ground water or seepage from the ocean? Even if the tunnels had filled up with silt or had been backfilled there would be fairly obvious signs. If the shaft keeps flooding why hasn't anyone tried to find them in the shaft and tried to plug them from that end? OK, they found some coconut fiber, why hasn't anyone done a real search for the boxes and pumped them full of concrete? Maybe the producers would like to jump in & give an answer.

 

[Roadhse2]

Another tidbit to think on....

If there were flood tunnels open to the ocean.....Why is there never any marine life in the caverns, shafts or any other holes bored?

Anything from urchins to barnacles to crabs or small fish?

The water would be oxygenated from the rise and fall of the tide and support marine life...yet none is ever mentioned or found. We had a similar tunnel that ran a few hundred feet from the ocean to a inland pool that was used for a 'yacht basin', a place to race or play around with model boats...about a half acre in size, 30 foot deep, rich in marine life of all kinds. Anything that could fit thru the metal screen used to keep out large fish was in there. I know, I used to dive there to recover model boats that had sunk for people, for pay of course.

If there were tunnels, you would see the same thing at the shafts, vaults, and even evidence of them brought up by drilling. Yet we see none, even in videos of the vaults.

 

[lokiblossom]

This is a very logical explanation and has far more credibility than any other position on the fibers.

Somebody brought coconut fibres from the Eastern Mediterranean or around Africa from the Indian Ocean to keep the beach from turning to mud, very creditable indeed.
Cheers, Loki

 

[n2mini]

to hear most of you talk the truth about Oak Island is that it is just an old fishing Island, no more no less. no reason for you to keep trying to debunk anything. It would be easy for the first people to dig deep before everyone else started doing their digging and tunneling and way before any ocean water could help erode away dirt etc, which has probably helped make more tunnels and atleast made anything dug bigger along the way. The water in all the pits and tunnels is ocean water and yet no sea life has ever been mentioned and the diver said he felt the water current coming and going, so just because there is no sea life in there doesn't mean anything good or bad regardless of which side of this treasure belief your on.

 

[Dave Rishar]

I am pretty convinced the finger drains were part of a system to concentrate salt water to be boiled down and used as a resource for salt. The other findings in the immediate area lead to this conclusion as well...they dump into a well type of pit for storage until boiled, there is a rock foundation nearby above high tide that shows evidence of having been used as a burn pit (burn't earth inside, scorched rocks, etc.).

An interesting theory. The problem that I have with it is that it would be a lot less work to simply move the burn pit closer to the water. Is there a compelling reason why it couldn't be on the coast?

As I noted earlier, even if there were platforms found...

A rather large "if," as there is no physical evidence of any platforms.

My question that keeps sticking with the flood tunnels is why haven't they or anyone found remains of these flood tunnels inside the shaft?

I suspect for the same reason that the car-stealing leprechauns at New Ross were never brought to justice.

Another tidbit to think on....

If there were flood tunnels open to the ocean.....Why is there never any marine life in the caverns, shafts or any other holes bored?

Anything from urchins to barnacles to crabs or small fish?

Do we know for a fact that no evidence of marine life was found in any of the shafts? If this is indeed true, the case is closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Roadhse2]

"An interesting theory. The problem that I have with it is that it would be a lot less work to simply move the burn pit closer to the water. Is there a compelling reason why it couldn't be on the coast?"

It is/was on the coast, just above and to the left of the finger drains...above high tide. The pit was not the Money Pit, it is a well like pit the finger drains converge on....both (well/burn pit) uncovered when the finger drains were excavated and then covered back over....The whole beach area was used to concentrate the salinity of the water by filling at high tide and then letting it drain through the finger drains to the well, pumped out to be boiled in large pans or pots at the burn area, by doing so they saved on burn time, wood, and manpower to get a larger yield of salt each burn....

As far as the marine life...that is why I said a tidbit to think on...I have never seen a written word OR anyone say a word about there being anything like that.....including none that can be seen in any of the down holes videos. Should there be marine life there? Yep, to me there should be if there are open tunnels to the sea...if just ground water through fractured rock, probably not....even if it does rise and fall with the tide, but no direct tunnel.

Platforms are another matter, they would serve a purpose if there as the oral story passed down goes...even if just the marks left from where they once were in the shaft walls, while not proving anything, there would be a reasonable explanation for there existence.

 

[boogeyman]

An interesting theory. The problem that I have with it is that it would be a lot less work to simply move the burn pit closer to the water. Is there a compelling reason why it couldn't be on the coast?



A rather large "if," as there is no physical evidence of any platforms.



I suspect for the same reason that the car-stealing leprechauns at New Ross were never brought to justice.



Do we know for a fact that no evidence of marine life was found in any of the shafts? If this is indeed true, the case is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Has anyone seen any evidence of the water rising and falling with the tides? If it was just water seeping in there wouldn't be much change if any. If it was directly connected there'd be a noticeable change.

Which is deeper? The money pit or the sponsors pockets??

 

[gazzahk]

My question that keeps sticking with the flood tunnels is why haven't they or anyone found remains of these flood tunnels inside the shaft? Could it be that the flooding is just from ground water or seepage from the ocean? Even if the tunnels had filled up with silt or had been backfilled there would be fairly obvious signs. If the shaft keeps flooding why hasn't anyone tried to find them in the shaft and tried to plug them from that end? OK, they found some coconut fiber, why hasn't anyone done a real search for the boxes and pumped them full of concrete? Maybe the producers would like to jump in & give an answer.

This is an interesting article

Does science*support*a man-made flood tunnel on Oak Island? The Blockhouse Blog - The Oak Island Compendium

So the water is not just ground water and the alleged tunnels are much deeper then simply sea level

It is also not the case that the water is everywhere. Ie the last episode when they dug into the old chapel shaft that was 140 feet deep. So these people had got to 140 feet before coming across the water. I think seas level is at about 30 feet.



Here is a pic of the miners at 100 feet or so. As we can see there is no water


Whatever else these men were very brave.

At some point water must of come flooding into these tunnels.