Notch test

[Jeff H]

So as not to hijack VFerarri's good post......

I was worried that a weak signal with an inaccurate TDI might get accidentally Discriminated out when using Notch. So I ran a quick test here at home.

I grabbed a pewter button from my case. It had a solid TDI of 55 at 3”.

I Notch out 30 to 54, still get a solid hit. It gets choppy at 55, 56. Very iffy at 57. Notch up to 60, no hit what so ever..... So far so good.

Next I added 4 inch book to the pile. The button is now 7 inches “deep”. The signal weakens of course. Now the TDI is jumping from 66 to 81. The result of the weaker signal is that because the Deus is now interpreting the TDI to be in the 70’s, I can now hear it !!!

So with the Notch set from 30 to 60, I could not hear the strong accurate TDI of 55 at 3 inches. But at 7 inches, the weaker inaccurate signal circumvented the Notch and could be heard!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

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[vferrari]

Just Wow! Great test Jeff. I think the moral to the story is don't notch anything if you can afford not to. I still need to repeat Andy's disc test to determine if low disc settings affect non-ferrous target depth (think I will use a nickel rather than a high silver conductor since the TID will be close to the max Disc setting) and at what point high disc settings start to affect depth.

 

[austin_luker]

So I took some of what you said about discrm... and notching and put it to the test today while I was out hunting my yard and an old boarding house. I set discrim at 5.5 and didn't notch anything. I noticed the Dues was a lot more stable with a higher discrim. Then I set the discrim to -3.5 and notched 1-10 the dues was chatty not so bad you can hunt with it but more chatty for sure. I really like the new "HOT" program with it's negative discrim, I lowered the freq to 8khz (18khz is what the program comes stock with) and raised the sensitivty to 95 with reactivity at 2.5 and was trying to listen for any sqeaks between all the iron. It works really nice was able to pull a Mercury dime and a 1903 Barber dime with O mint mark! in a yard I have thought I HUNTED OUT long long ago lol. hen took it back to the boarding house and was able to pull some targets from a heavy heavy mask of iron. So very pleased with V4 and the new lower discrim settings and the new reactivity of 2.5. The past week I have got over 20 silvers coins, that fake diamond ring and a bunch of other nice relics, I do not think I would have found these targets with any other detector in the same price range. Happy man over here

 

[Jeff H]

I would agree V. Notch has it's uses. But Notchers need to be aware that a target's TDI can really fluctuate based on the signal strength. You could possible Notch out a good target by accident. Or do what I did....Notch IN a good target by accident

I'll be interested to see how your disc test turns out.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Air test used to test notch,,,not a good idea.
The ground(minerals) will do more to the TID on a target vs air. As far as make it read higher.

Reactvity setting can drive,,,using like a 3 setting,,,target will start running higher TID wise sonner(shallower).
A suggestion,,Deus separates nicely even at 1 reactivity,,,slow your sweep,,your notch setting more reliable as far as function.

You know,,,if deep coin hunting,,,notch 00-80 and rock and roll,,most of the deep stuff will read in the 90s anyway.
All that clad will go by the wayside.

 

[vferrari]

So I took some of what you said about discrm... and notching and put it to the test today while I was out hunting my yard and an old boarding house. I set discrim at 5.5 and didn't notch anything. I noticed the Dues was a lot more stable with a higher discrim. Then I set the discrim to -3.5 and notched 1-10 the dues was chatty not so bad you can hunt with it but more chatty for sure. I really like the new "HOT" program with it's negative discrim, I lowered the freq to 8khz (18khz is what the program comes stock with) and raised the sensitivty to 95 with reactivity at 2.5 and was trying to listen for any sqeaks between all the iron. It works really nice was able to pull a Mercury dime and a 1903 Barber dime with O mint mark! in a yard I have thought I HUNTED OUT long long ago lol. hen took it back to the boarding house and was able to pull some targets from a heavy heavy mask of iron. So very pleased with V4 and the new lower discrim settings and the new reactivity of 2.5. The past week I have got over 20 silvers coins, that fake diamond ring and a bunch of other nice relics, I do not think I would have found these targets with any other detector in the same price range. Happy man over here

Good tests and great finds too, Austin. Exactly the tweak I would make to Gary's Hot program (i.e., lowering frequency to 8 or 12). I say Gary's Hot program because Andy stated that Gary talked Alain into including HOT and DEEP into the V 4 built-ins.

 

[vferrari]

Air test used to test notch,,,not a good idea.
The ground(minerals) will do more to the TID on a target vs air. As far as make it read higher.

Reactvity setting can drive,,,using like a 3 setting,,,target will start running higher TID wise sonner(shallower).
A suggestion,,Deus separates nicely even at 1 reactivity,,,slow your sweep,,your notch setting more reliable as far as function.

You know,,,if deep coin hunting,,,notch 00-80 and rock and roll,,most of the deep stuff will read in the 90s anyway.
All that clad will go by the wayside.

Agree with your first statement (for a more definitive view of what the ground would actually do to TID) except that Jeff's setup was as valid as a ground test for the effect he was trying to gage and for the unexpected result he got.

I will never notch except for perhaps a competitive seeded club hunt and even then, the best prizes are typically reserved for tokens or marked copper cents, not silvers. I may be looking for silver, but my best finds are typically for those unexpected things I was not looking for in the first place. If I notched to 80, would have never found the brass chain and crucifix I found last week on the soccer field. I want to "see" everything in the ground so my brain and not my detector can decide when I should dig.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Agree with your first statement (for a more definitive view of what the ground would actually do to TID) except that Jeff's setup was as valid as a ground test for the effect he was trying to gage and for the unexpected result he got.

I will never notch except for perhaps a competitive seeded club hunt and even then, the best prizes are typically reserved for tokens or marked copper cents, not silvers. I may be looking for silver, but my best finds are typically for those unexpected things I was not looking for in the first place. If I notched to 80, would have never found the brass chain and crucifix I found last week on the soccer field. I want to "see" everything in the ground so my brain and not my detector can decide when I should dig.

Sure you would 't have found with higher notch,,but take an old house site that been busted hard not running notch,,,maybe a person could go in later and run some high notch,,,and concentrate maybe on the deeper stuff.

Deus will air test with a good ID a long ways,,,you put a coin here in my ground,,,about 7-8" ID starts crawling up quick.

 

[sleepyjim]

So I took some of what you said about discrm... and notching and put it to the test today while I was out hunting my yard and an old boarding house. I set discrim at 5.5 and didn't notch anything. I noticed the Dues was a lot more stable with a higher discrim. Then I set the discrim to -3.5 and notched 1-10 the dues was chatty not so bad you can hunt with it but more chatty for sure. I really like the new "HOT" program with it's negative discrim, I lowered the freq to 8khz (18khz is what the program comes stock with) and raised the sensitivty to 95 with reactivity at 2.5 and was trying to listen for any sqeaks between all the iron. It works really nice was able to pull a Mercury dime and a 1903 Barber dime with O mint mark! in a yard I have thought I HUNTED OUT long long ago lol. hen took it back to the boarding house and was able to pull some targets from a heavy heavy mask of iron. So very pleased with V4 and the new lower discrim settings and the new reactivity of 2.5. The past week I have got over 20 silvers coins, that fake diamond ring and a bunch of other nice relics, I do not think I would have found these targets with any other detector in the same price range. Happy man over here

So when you tweaked the HOT prog did you still use the -3.5 disc and notch 1-10? That seems off to me....LOL

 

[vferrari]

So when you tweaked the HOT prog did you still use the -3.5 disc and notch 1-10? That seems off to me....LOL

Austin can answer this for sure, but I think what Austin is doing is minimizing disc based on the theory that some subscribe to that any discrimination lowers detection depth on non-ferrous targets, yet he does not want to hear the iron so notching it out accomplishes this because notch definitely does not have any impact on depth (but you can't set a negative notch). Andy provided a demo which I described above and in other posts attempting to debunk the disc = loss of non-ferrous depth theory, but many folks don't believe it.

 

[austin_luker]

No I don't use any notch when i run the HoT program unless it's crazy iron infested then I'll run notch of 1-5 just to cut out some iron. I really like the new negative GB I will run -5.5 with the new HOT and zero notch just to find an active spot then bump up the notch. Hey if it works why change [emoji51]


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[vferrari]

Silver!

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Austin can answer this for sure, but I think what Austin is doing is minimizing disc based on the theory that some subscribe to that any discrimination lowers detection depth on non-ferrous targets, yet he does not want to hear the iron so notching it out accomplishes this because notch definitely does not have any impact on depth (but you can't set a negative notch). Andy provided a demo which I described above and in other posts attempting to debunk the disc = loss of non-ferrous depth theory, but many folks don't believe it.

Lower disc,,,can cause a signal to be more elongated,,,giving appearance of being deeper.
Same with shallower targets when trying to unmask/separate,,,very possible on some targets audio provided tone wise is more elongated.

Being more elongated could make the target easier to hear/locate.

I have seen this countless times using version 3.2,,,using same unit,,just changing settings and listening.

This extended disc on version 4.0,,,the upper end of the disc,,,like level 6 seems to resemble disc 6 using version 4.0

I am still experimenting to see what this lower extended disc setting gives me using resign 4.0

So far version 4.0 using deep mode,,,I am hearing ground noise or some thing when checking my 9" deep dime,,,using Gary's hot program,,signal is weaker but cleaner.

Need more time to nail this new version down.

 

[vferrari]

Lower disc,,,can cause a signal to be more elongated,,,giving appearance of being deeper.
Same with shallower targets when trying to unmask/separate,,,very possible on some targets audio provided tone wise is more elongated.

Being more elongated could make the target easier to hear/locate.

I have seen this countless times using version 3.2,,,using same unit,,just changing settings and listening.

This extended disc on version 4.0,,,the upper end of the disc,,,like level 6 seems to resemble disc 6 using version 4.0

I am still experimenting to see what this lower extended disc setting gives me using resign 4.0

So far version 4.0 using deep mode,,,I am hearing ground noise or some thing when checking my 9" deep dime,,,using Gary's hot program,,signal is weaker but cleaner.

Need more time to nail this new version down.

Will have to check for the "eleongated" phenomenon of which you speak when I get a chance to run some disc vs. notch tests in my garden. That did not show up in Andy's disc demo at the bootcamp nor did he mention it, other than there is more clipping and distortion of non-ferrous target audio at very high disc settings. He continued to emphasize the the instability issues, esp. of the horseshoe indicator at disc less than 5. With negative disc, XP was trying to give Deus a closer "all metal" type of mode than it had in ver 4 if you believe their literature.

 

[Deft Tones]

I've jacked around last year notching for jewelry (specific tight ranges 5-6 vdi number sets) and quickly came to the same conclusion - shallow good, mid-depth and beyond bad. And that's just talking about solid signals!

Worthless when I park hunt. Worthless when I relic hunt. Perhaps for silver coin hunters it would be of use notching out everything below silver just to hear only the fakers at depth bounce in... and the good targets too. Or perhaps strip mining a site and progressively lowering the notch it would be of use.

It's not really it's forte.

Good thread.