Now I need advice on a Good Offer

[FormerTeller]

A few years ago my wife and I used the services of a professional financial adviser, a friend of my dad's. During our discussions I revealed that I was a coin collector, and I explained my (very limited) plans for using my collection/CRH finds in retirement, still a good 15 years away. Last week he called my dad to say he had a bunch of old coins, wanting to know if I'd be willing to appraise them and possibly make an offer on buying them. When I heard, my answer was "Of Course."

Now here's the interesting part. The coins belong to one of his clients, an 87 year old gentleman who said it was his mother's coin collection. He supposedly doesn't need the money from the sale, and doesn't have any heirs who are interested in inheriting the coins. The coins are said to fill 3 shoeboxes. I had planned to contact this guy and his client this week (I wax out of town over the weekend) to set up a time and place to meet, but my dad who socializes with his friend weekly said he was going to drop them off tomorrow! So it sounds like I will be able to take possession of the coins, similar to the situation Dozer was just in and evaluate them at my leisure, getting back to them when I have an appraisal ready plus possibly an offer.

I have 2 dilemmas: one, I'm not terribly comfortable taking possession of somebody's coins, quite possibly very valuable ones, whom I don't know; indeed, I've never met the man. For now I've asked my dad if he'd be ok holding on to them at his house, where I could examine them with another person present (my dad has an impeccable reputation). He's amenable to that idea.

My second reservation is how much to offer the man for his coins. Normally I'd grade them as accurately as I could, letting him know how much he could reasonably expect to sell them for, and usually offer a bit more than a dealer would, at least for the coins I was interested in. However, my dad kind of set me up, in that he told his friend that it would take me quite a bit of time and effort to grade them all (true), and that my time was valuable (technically true, but I've never charged anyone for grading their coins), and that if I did make an offer it would be about the same as a dealer would, perhaps half or two thirds what they were worth (not true, but he didn't know that). It will probably indeed take a lot of time to evaluate them all, based on his description, and I'm already in trouble with my wife for going away over Father's Day weekend, so my free time will be limited for a while - BIG honey-do list. I'd guess the collection will be similar to what my grandmother had; this lady would likely have been 10 years older than Grandma, so may consist of a lot of junk silver and wheat and Indian head cents, or it could be quite extensive. So my dilemma is whether to charge for grading/appraising, low ball an offer, or just do my usual thing. I'd kind of like to make him a fair offer for the lot with no grading fee, plus offer to split or otherwise share in the profits if he has a sleeper (1916-D Mercury dime, etc), bug I don't know if that's appropriate. My problem is that I'm really not a dealer; I want to help people get the best deal while still making out ok for my time. I also don't know if it's appropriate to offer my dad's friend a finders fee, or if he even expects one; I kind of doubt he does.

Don't know, a lot to think about. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to provide updates once I see what he's got, plus pics as best I can.

FT

 

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[Johncoho]

From my experience with this sort of thing, chances are it will be more like a mix mox of coins and maybe not anything that valuable. Just sort through and make him a fair offer for what he has. If there are a lot of coins that are just face value then let him know that along with any common silver just worth silver value. The last collection I looked at had a lot of circulated Ike dollars and the newer presidential dollar coins, but then there were a number of nice Morgan and Peace dollars in it. Good luck and just make a fair offer and I would assume he will let you have them.

 

[BLK HOLE]

I think the first thing I would offer is that it is very obvious that you are a man of integrity based upon your post, the second thing I would offer is I think you already know the right answer but are really wrestling with "What other people would do". Others might charge, low ball, etc. My last Admiral always said "The right answer is the right answer" so do what you are comfortable with, you are the only one who will live with the decision.

 

[LooseChange]

Do a quick and dirty search for any true rarities (almost certain to not find any).
Drive to a nearby LCS (but not your LCS that you have a relationship with).
Have them make an offer on the lot of commons.
Decline the offer.
Pay the friend 5% more than the declined offer on the commons.

If there is anything truly valuable, keep the discussion of those separate.

 

[Slowtaknow]

Do the right thing as they are coming from a friend of your dads, if it was some stranger well maybe do what's right by you.

 

[Hawks88]

I agree with Johncoho just make a fair offer that both sides agree with. I would first ask him what he might think he would want for them. Maybe even give a receipt or get something in writing with his signature to prove it was a legitimate transaction. Just to protect yourself. Good luck.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Do a quick and dirty search for any true rarities (almost certain to not find any).
Drive to a nearby LCS (but not your LCS that you have a relationship with).
Have them make an offer on the lot of commons.
Decline the offer.
Pay the friend 5% more than the declined offer on the commons.

If there is anything truly valuable, keep the discussion of those separate.

This.

 

[Holt0222]

Personally I would say if you are known to be an appraiser in your town it is vital that you keep your reputation from being sullied. It sounds like the gentleman is already planning on selling them to you he just wants to know what a fair offer would be. Appraise them as you would any other coins. I naturally would separate out all the face value coins, silvers, and valuables. This way you have 3 different categories. when you are done appraising you can give him the prices based on categories. FV = X, Silver = Y, Value = Z.

 

[CoinFetcher]

If you want to resell, give yourself some wiggle room And offer 75% of Its eBay completed purchase price or some percentage different that you feel is fair.

Some folks really do feel that 50% is fair - others fee that 95% is fair.

If the coins are out of your league as far value appraisal goes, than tell him that.

 

[Twitch]

FT - I can make sense to pay either more or less than your LCS depending on whether you want the coins or not. If it’s not really a collection I want i’ll Offer 10-15% than my LCS will pay so I have room to flip. I will tell the person what the LCS will pay, will provide them the LCS phone number and directions. Sometimes people will still sell to you because they don’t want to hassle with another person, they trust you, and they understand your time is valuable. If it’s a collection I want to keep i’ll Offer full LCS or rarely a little over. Same disclosures as before.

 

[FormerTeller]

Thanks for all the replies. I got over to my dad's house today and took a quick (3.5 hour) look through the entire collection. I'd say I'd have to classify her as more of a hoarder than a collector. The vast majority of the collection was wheats and junk silver. I'm talking 1,100+ wheat cents and over $250 face value in 90% silver, including over 1,000 Roosevelt and Mercury dimes. All silver had common dates, except for a smattering of Barber coins, all of which in AG or worse condition. There were about 60 Buffalo nickels, half dateless, and about a dozen each of Indian Head cents and V nickels. Nice 1863 Indian in VF condition, but most of the rest was AG-G. Only 5 silver dollars - 4 Peace and a Morgan, all common dates. Couple dozen foreign coins, 4 or 5 of them silver, and a nice looking 1854 gold dollar that unfortunately had a hole in it - ex-jewelry piece. Last was a 1921 Morgan dollar that had been made into the handle of a sterling silver engraved letter opener, with beautiful detail work. It weighted 2.3 oz troy, and I'm really hoping to end up with it at the very least.

I called the adviser, who gave me the phone number of the lady's grandson (in his 60's) who lives out of state. He said to call him this weekend. I think I'm going to offer him $3,000 for the lot. That's 10x face for the 90%, and $0.70 each for the war nickels (141 of them), $15 each for the silver dollars, 2.5 cents per wheat, melt on the gold, and about $50 on the letter opener. There was a bunch of coins worth face value too. I figured the dateless buffalos at 10 cents each, and the (common) dated ones at 20-25 cents each. 50 cents each for the Indian Cents and V-nickels, and at least a good $10 for the 1863 IHC. All in all a more than fair offer I think, but we'll see how it shakes out. I really don't want all the silver, and will be flipping most of it for little to no profit very soon.

Had a blast going through everything though. She had saved all the coins - over 3,000 of them! - in medicine bottles, glass alka-seltzer tubes, Geritol bottles (turns out it's exactly the diameter of a wheat cent...), and all sorts of containers. Obviously a product of someone who lived through the Great Depression. She had saved newspaper clippings from 1959 predicting that the new design on the Lincoln cent wouldn't be that collectible, and an article from 1964 predicting that the Kennedy half would be very collectible. An article from the late 1960's noted that silver coinage was rapidly disappearing from circulation, and I suspect that is when she started stashing silver in full. I can't wait to talk to this guy over the weekend to see what he remembers about his grandmother, if she was like my grandmother stashing nickels and dimes from her grocery allowance.

Good times!

 

[Diver_Down]

Good luck with acquiring the hoard. You are making a good offer and since you are standing tall on the 90%, I would reconsider the War Silver nickel offer of $.70/each. While they are worth more at melt, they are not as easily sold or desirable for a silver stacker. Also your wheat cent offer is high unless there are early wheats in the pile. If they are all 40's and 50's wheat, then you will only get 3 cents a wheat for them.

 

[GMan00001]

Although my post is few days late as it appears that you already decided what to do and made an offer, here are my suggestions should any similar deals appear in the future.

My suggestions assume that, as the appraiser, you are willing to do an honest appraisal and share the full appraisal value with the seller either as a whole or more likely broken down in parts used to generate the value as a whole.


Step 1) Define your appraisal fees
Decide how much your time is worth before you start appraising anything and say that you'll appraise the collection for $X/hr and make an offer to purchase the collection when done (assuming you are interested in a purchase). If, after negotiations, an offer is accepted, you will waive the appraisal fee. I would also give either an estimate of how many hours it will take to appraise everything or a fixed price for doing the appraisal up front to minimize the surprises to the seller later.

Step 2) Tell the seller the full appraisal value.
When the appraisal is complete, give the seller your full appraisal value. Include all the details you used to generate the appraisal. For example, if you added 3 cents for each wheat cent, tell them that and how many wheat cents they have.

Step 3) Make an offer.
Since you are telling the seller the value of what they are selling, you are free to offer the seller whatever value you are willing to pay for whatever pieces of the collection you want without guilt as they are aware of the actual value and can use that to decide if they feel your offer is fair or not. What percentage of the appraised value you are willing to pay will likely depend on what they are selling, so I don't have any advice on that part as each buyer will likely value coins differently.

Step 4) Negotiate as necessary.

Step 5) Determine outcome of deal.
If the seller accepts your offer, you buy the coins for your offer price. If the seller declines your offer and you can't come to an agreement for purchase, the seller pays your previously agreed to appraisal fee.


There are many variations of the process depending on what you want out of it, etc. For example, you could also negotiate that you will receive a specific coin(s) from the collection for doing the appraisal regardless of whether a purchase is made by you afterwards.


This only makes sense if they actually asking for an appraisal and not just looking to sell you their coins. The basics are still the same, but if you are just doing a normal purchase, you aren't required to share what you believe the collection to be worth since the seller isn't paying you for that knowledge if you don't buy the collection.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Very fair offer. Its more than I would have offered, FWIW.

 

[FormerTeller]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!

I decided to go with an offer of $2,800 as silver had fallen a bit before I got in touch with him, and because I'd be immediately flipping most of the junk silver. Haven't received a response yet, but this guy is kinda flighty (took forever to hear from him). He'll be back in town in a couple of weeks so we'll see what happens. I don't really care if I get the collection or not, but would really like to get the silver letter opener at the least, and made that clear. I'll post an update once everything is resolved.