Old etched knife, possibly gold plated?

[Line88]

Hello all,

I have this old etched/engraved knife with a king's pattern from my great grand-mother, I was wondering about the hallmarks/signatures on it. I have managed to identify on the "emblem" which consist of a lion, a rabbit, an eagle and an elephant, there is also two small letters on it: "R.D." At least, this is what my eye could see, but perhaps I am mistaken. The knife also seems to be gold plated? A butter or pâté knife perhaps?

For the four hallmarks beneath the emblem, there is a signature of M.P. I think, a star, a double "fleur de lys" and a crown.

Does anyone have any more specific information on this, than what I have been able to find so far? It's a bit of a mystery left behind from my great grand-mother.

Thanks in advance!

-Line.

Photos :

 

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[DCMatt]

No sure about the markings but the item is a "fish knife" (for eating fish, not filleting...)

Turn of the 20th C give or take a decade.

 

[DCMatt]

I didn't spend much time looking for the hallmarks, but my gut says they are fake.

Do some research on "pseudo hallmarks". This was a fairly common practice in the late 19th and early 20th C.

 

[Red-Coat]

Welcome to Tnet.

As DCMatt suggests, those are pseudo hallmarks on silver plate (also commonly used on non-plated base metals). In this case, most of the marks have no meaning… they’re just fantasies designed to improve the apparent credentials to prospective purchasers and especially on exports to the US (the marks for those are often more elaborate and fanciful than on pieces intended for the British domestic market).

The shield with the four animals is a trademark used by Thomas Hands of 8 New Hall St and 38 Suffolk St, Birmingham (England). The company was active under that name from 1850 and then as Thomas Hands & Son from 1861. I’m not completely sure what the top right animal is, but suspect it’s a kangaroo rather than a rabbit… and that the animals figuratively suggest the company was ‘serving the four corners of the world’.



I think you’re correct that the letters on the shield are an ‘R’ (large) and a ‘D’ (smaller) and that they are shorthand for ‘Registered’… they also sometimes appear elsewhere in Hands’ marks with that meaning (see first example below):



I don’t think the oval cartouche with ‘MP’ has anything to do with the maker, designer or whatever. Note that the second example above has ‘NS’ for ‘Nickel Silver’ (a base metal alloy), and I think ‘MP’ serves a similar purpose in indicating what the material is. Hands & Son widely used ‘Peruvian Silver’ (another tarnish-resistant base metal imitation of silver, which could optionally be silver plated) and I believe ‘MP’ stands for ‘Magneto Plate’. That was a process for depositing a thin layer of silver onto base metals invented by Thomas Prime of Birmingham in 1844. The process could also be used for plating with gold and copper, but I think the ‘gold’ appearance on parts of your knife are the copper-rich base showing through the worn silver plating rather than the remnants of unworn gold plating.

We then come to possible dating. If this is Magneto Plate then it’s probably going to be post-1850. The pseudo hallmarks include a crown, and it was forbidden by law to use a crown mark on silver plate from 1896, so it’s likely before that date. A few manufacturers continued to chance their arm with the law for a few years after that on pieces for export only, but it wouldn’t be usual after about 1900.

 

[Red-Coat]

PS: I'm not completely convinced it's a fish knife. Those usually have a pointy (but blunt) end as Matt showed. I would say with a completely rounded end it's more probably a butter knife... but to be honest, sometimes the only way you can tell is if the knife is part of a boxed set (or can be found in a contemporary catalogue).

 

[CRUSADER]

PS: I'm not completely convinced it's a fish knife. Those usually have a pointy (but blunt) end as Matt showed. I would say with a completely rounded end it's more probably a butter knife... but to be honest, sometimes the only way you can tell is if the knife is part of a boxed set (or can be found in a contemporary catalogue).

Maybe a butter knife.

 

[CaptEsteban]

I agree with Crusader.

 

[Line88]

Hello all,
I just wanted to say: Thank you for your help !! This is all very interesting, even if it's not "real". The knife remains a little piece of history left behind from my great-grandmother and that's also of great value.

Until next time !

-Line.

 

[invent4hir]

Hello all,
I just wanted to say: Thank you for your help !! This is all very interesting, even if it's not "real". The knife remains a little piece of history left behind from my great-grandmother and that's also of great value.

Until next time !

-Line.

Heck yeah! To actually hold something you know came from your great-grandmother - is amazing!