One Solution to school shootings

[stryker-one]

We humans use armed guards to move large amounts of currency and guard items of great value--as they say in Mexico--"es verdad" (that is truth). School teachers have to have indepth backgrounds and physcological backgrounds done before they can become teachers, full-time and subs. So I say instead of a in service day each month they get a Range day each month, they would then become sworn and be required to be concealed carrying anytime they walk into the position to instruct our children. After all our children are our future and what is there that has more value in any parents life. This is a simple solution and one that would be very economical. "oh I don't want to be forced to carry a gun if I want to teach". Well my child is in your hands more hours a day than they are in mine--so guess what it is part of the job now.Can you imagine what would happen to school shootings if every teacher was required to be armed and trained to use their weapon. From what I hear of this latest shooting (heresay) if the principal had of had a gun and knew the double tap (two to the chest and one to the head) procedure the story would have been a whole lot different.I am just spit balling here and I think this idea has as more merit than passing anymore new gun laws. I hope this offends no one as that is not my intention and I hope this is the right place to post this.Stryker

 

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[Red James Cash]

Only problem is,is your solution is common sense,now honestly,when have you seen any common sense in the way the government works.

 

[Stormrider51]

First, I just want to ask. Is that a Navion in your avatar? I always liked those planes. I owned a Piper Tri-Pacer, Aeronca Chief, and a Beech Musketeer but never even got to fly in a Navion.

Having spent my life in EMS and law enforcement and having been a concealed handgun instructor I have to say that some people are capable of responding to a life threatening emergency with lethal force and some are not. Much depends on mindset. Teachers in Israel are armed and trained but the average Israeli has lived with danger all their lives. They have a no-BS attitude about being attacked. The average American has been fed a diet of "guns are bad" for so long that many of our teachers would be incapable of armed response. It is far easier to herd the kids into a closet and read to them while hoping that a madman will not walk in and shoot you all than it is to mount a proactive defense. So while I agree with you about what should be done, I doubt that it will be done. What we will do is blame the weapon. "If we just get rid of all those nasty old guns this sort of thing wouldn't happen." I spent 26 years working the streets. When I get up in the morning a pistol goes in my jeans pocket. I have a compact 1911 .45 auto that also goes where I do. Am I paranoid? I don't think so. I've just seen what happens in the real world.

Storm

 

[stryker-one]

Yep that is "Rita" 1950 Navion had her for 12 years. I too am of law enforcement background, civilian and military. It is time for a change of attitude. New job description with new job skills required--sorry you cannot guard our greatest asset you cannot teach them. It might be painful but it is only option I see that will work. I know once the schools are secure the bad guys will find a new target--and we just adjust--what else is there? I know it will not happen--but why could it not?

 

[jeff of pa]

I don't think impromptu gunners are afraid of someone with a gun.
I Definitely don't think armed teachers , security guards or police will stop
school shootings, it will just put another gun in the hands of a potential last minute psycho,
when they are faced with replacement.

My guess this kid wasn't planning this, I'd say something in his brain just expired
and he couldn't think straight & no I don't think removing guns or locking doors
will stop someone who wants to kill. gasoline on all exits could have been worse.

Short of building all schools like prisons & having barbed wire & full vehicle searches before entering the grounds,
I'm not sure that would stop it either.

Kids hear about this in the Media, See all the attention, & learn from history the shock value.

do the unthinkable, "cover ups" a kid goes nutz with a gun, hide it.
somehow Hide it. 5 or so generations from now, if no memory from history of a school shooting
exists, You'll see kids with shotguns in the school parking lot again, bragging about the buck they got,
or the record big one they missed

 

[davest]

well those are good thoughts, but at the same time what are you going to do about the malls? the hospitals? movie theaters? Give everyone a weapon and training?

I think it would be better to give a psych evaluation to each person that wants to buy a gun and make them take a training course.

To drive a car, I have to take a test, pay a registration fee each year, and prove I'm competent (yeah, sometimes I wonder too). Can't we ask the same thing of firearms?

BTW, back in the 80s the state mental health hospitals were closed in the name of saving money, we're reaping the whirlwind now.

 

[Marc]

Internet everything! No more schools, malls, theaters, churches, commuting, ah the panacea!

Ok, maybe farms, factories and hospitals will need to stay brick and mortar

Sorry, I don't meant to sound flippant about this heinous (twice tonight on the news I heard that pronounced "henious") tragedy, but there is some truth to my comment!

It seems human "society" just has a weak link or two........ unfortunately.... AND IMHO .... America DOES have a gun problem - not sure how to sum it up or address it - but it DOES have a gun problem.

 

[stryker-one]

Hey thanks guys, I figured T Net folks were a good, and mostly level headed bunch. Now that I got the ipinion out of my head I can move on into hunting some lost stuff--let's see where are those batteries?

 

[Red James Cash]

It seems human "society" just has a weak link or two........ unfortunately.... AND IMHO .... America DOES have a gun problem - not sure how to sum it up or address it - but it DOES have a gun problem.

America has a fork and spoon problem too,more people die each year of obesity and heart disease each year caused by using forks and spoons to stuff their faces than guns ever will,better have fork and spoon control.Blaming guns for crimes is the same as a batter blaming the baseball after getting hit with a wild pitch.Ive seen plenty of robberies,on video, with the robber using a knife,do you blame the knifeSame with stabbings,does the knife ever get blamed,NOOOOOO.

 

[squiggy]

Internet everything! No more schools, malls, theaters, churches, commuting, ah the panacea!

Ok, maybe farms, factories and hospitals will need to stay brick and mortar

Sorry, I don't meant to sound flippant about this heinous (twice tonight on the news I heard that pronounced "henious") tragedy, but there is some truth to my comment!

It seems human "society" just has a weak link or two........ unfortunately.... AND IMHO .... America DOES have a gun problem - not sure how to sum it up or address it - but it DOES have a gun problem.

Yes, I agree a MAJOR gun problem. When an individual has a need to have an assault weapon in the home it speaks to many issues. I must say that as a new person on this site I am pleased by the support and kindness and at the same time put off by a thankfully only a FEW tasteless posts that display a tasteless indifference to living creatures.

 

[squiggy]

Maybe they should outlaw automobiles, they kill thousands of people each year, far more than guns, knives and other weapons. Most people hit with a car never survive. Some people survive a gunshot or stab wound. Even people riding in cars are likely to be killed, either by the impact or the car catching fire and burning them to death. The truth is people, we can't control all these things to keep anyone from getting hurt or killed. Where thre are millions of people, some are going to do bad things and some may not get caught. Where guns have been uutlawed, many of these countries are seeing record numbers of breakins and beatings, as well as killings. When you have no way to protect yourself, you can become a statistic very easily. By the time police arrive, the best you can hope for is for them to catch the culpriits. Good Luck. rockhound

I personally am not for the banning of all guns. I do think assault weapons should not be allowed. Other than that I think it is a people problem and I don't pretend to have the answer but it is a HUGE red Flagg for sure....Hard to imagine what those innocent little children went through.

 

[squiggy]

Maybe they should outlaw automobiles, they kill thousands of people each year, far more than guns, knives and other weapons. Most people hit with a car never survive. Some people survive a gunshot or stab wound. Even people riding in cars are likely to be killed, either by the impact or the car catching fire and burning them to death. The truth is people, we can't control all these things to keep anyone from getting hurt or killed. Where thre are millions of people, some are going to do bad things and some may not get caught. Where guns have been uutlawed, many of these countries are seeing record numbers of breakins and beatings, as well as killings. When you have no way to protect yourself, you can become a statistic very easily. By the time police arrive, the best you can hope for is for them to catch the culpriits. Good Luck. rockhound

I also wanted to add...as I said on another response people on this site are great and so supportive, that seems to be the majority..then I have unfortunately seen a few posts regarding animals that were heartless and sadistic..that speaks to the very heart of the weapons issue..it's people that cause the problem.

 

[packerbacker]

Davest quote: "BTW, back in the 80s the state mental health hospitals were closed in the name of saving money, we're reaping the whirlwind now."
I couldn't agree more with that statement. They closed the mental hospitals and turned the patients and future patients out on the streets. It's like making new cars cheaper by not installing seatbelts.

 

[squiggy]

I don't think everyone needs an automatic weapon either, but you can't even own one legally unless you have a class 3 firearms permit. Most military personel can't even purchase one. Also, a very extensive background check is done when any frearm is purchased. Even with these safeguards in place, if someone wants to buy a weapon, there are many on the black market that can be purchased. So the only thing more gun control will do is take more guns out of the hands of our citizens. If you want to see what gun elimintion does, just go south of the border, where guns are outlawed for their citizens. More people are killed there in a week than in the U.S. in many years. Criminals and evil minded individuals will always find ways to commit their evil acts of terror on the public. Good Luck. rockhound

WHY would anyone need an assault weapon anyway..If the mother of the shooter had not had one he would have used something lesser and lives would have been saved. As far as the mental health piece he had a personality disorder..very common among alcoholic and addicts ..people are not locked up for this. I work in mental health field and frankly those that are out on the street and most have county services...are for the most part not a threat due to outpatient help and medication.

 

[Mackaydon]

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," per Wayne LaPierre
Don....

 

[squiggy]

I agree. I don't see the need for an assault weapon either, but the fact is, if he couldn't purchase one leagally, then he could get one on the black market. If he had a mental disorder then he needed to be locked up or kept close tabs on to prevent him from hurting himself or someone else. From what I heard, he stole the guns, so it wouldn't matter if he had been able to purchase one or not. He could have stole one from a gun store if not from someones home. Derranged people will go to any lengths to accomplish their goals. Just look at the suicide bombers in the middle east. These people will go to any lengths to kill, mame or disable those who they consider their enemies. Most are youngsters influenced by there elders who have an attitude toward self imposed justice. Hopefully people will reconsider closing mental institutions. Good Luck. rockhound

Good points made by all!

 

[Crispin]

This for the benefit of those who would like to be more informed:

Personality disorders are not considered to be Mental Illness. Throughout the revisions of the DSM they have changed significantly. When the DSM V comes out in 2015 several of the current personality disorders will no longer be listed. Personality disorders cannot be treated by medication. In Cluster B, there is a personality disorder called narcissism. There are several pristine examples of people with narcissism who are members of this site. If we were to "lock up or keep tabs on" everybody with a personality disorder that would be about 25% of the population.

It is extremelly hypocritical to advocate for the second amendment and then turn around and suggest "locking up and keeping tabs" on people with mental illness. I do not expect anybody who disagrees to change their mind, but I figured I would point it out.

Lastly, real "crazy" people who suffer from severe mental illness do not commit mass murders. The majority of homeless people in major cities suffer from mental illness. They are extremely dysfunctional. They are not able to plan where their next meal is coming from, let alone plan out and execute a mass murder.

 

[squiggy]

This for the benefit of those who would like to be more informed:

Personality disorders are not considered to be Mental Illness. Throughout the revisions of the DSM they have changed significantly. When the DSM V comes out in 2015 several of the current personality disorders will no longer be listed. Personality disorders cannot be treated by medication. In Cluster B, there is a personality disorder called narcissism. There are several pristine examples of people with narcissism who are members of this site. If we were to "lock up or keep tabs on" everybody with a personality disorder that would be about 25% of the population.

It is extremelly hypocritical to advocate for the second amendment and then turn around and suggest "locking up and keeping tabs" on people with mental illness. I do not expect anybody who disagrees to change their mind, but I figured I would point it out.

Lastly, real "crazy" people who suffer from severe mental illness do not commit mass murders. The majority of homeless people in major cities suffer from mental illness. They are extremely dysfunctional. They are not able to plan where their next meal is coming from, let alone plan out and execute a mass murder.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!

 

[onfire]

AP) – A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes today, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens. The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8am. The alleged attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, a police officer said. A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county. It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.

 

[squiggy]

AP) – A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes today, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens. The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8am. The alleged attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, a police officer said. A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county. It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.

Bet that population has ways of dealing with firearm violence ...