Opinions on these LRLs?

[TreasurePirate69]

I think I have given you a web address that proves that.
....

Ummm.... no. No you didn't. Just more tap dancing and attempting to waste my time. It doesn't go unnoticed so you aren't doing yourself or your cause any favors.

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Ummm.... no. No you didn't. Just more tap dancing and attempting to waste my time.

Gee...I don’t know how to tap dance and yes you are wasting everyone's time.

It doesn't go unnoticed so you aren't doing yourself or your cause any favors.

I have no cause except exchanging information with treasure hunters
Why would a manufacture put a Handle on a LRL if it was no designed to be used with a hand?
"For those who don't believe, no amount of evidence is enough. And for those who do believe, no evidence is necessary."

 

[olfacere]

Hating on people fills your Nothingness.

 

[Muddyhandz]

~Muddyhandz ~
religion and spiritual matters

​

Could you please tell us what this has to do with using a LRL to locate and recover treasure using a LRL?

Why don't you ask signal_line.
Y'all are used to the usual scientific skeptic stance.
Were you prepared for this approach?
I just gave you the basics about the laws of manifestation.
The LRL users always give a mystic explanation outside of just turning the contraption on and searching.
Signal line never challenged my post because he/she knows that I'm well versed in the "mystic" language.
You can achieve the same results without a LRL using meditation, control of ego, emotions, thoughts, etc.
I just thought it was odd that signal_line was using Eastern philosophy and quoting the bible.
I still find it bizarre but what ever turns your crank.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Muddyhandsz..I know how and where I can find the strongest Natural Signals from different objects with my most used LRL...the others it is just a matter of following the signal it produces with a set of rods...I see nothing religion and spiritual about that...But...If someone else wants to use any method that he has success with I will not put them down and try not argue with them.. I see no scientific skeptic stance from the skeptics,,,,,except for asking a bunch of questions about a subject they nothing about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_skepticism...Art

 

[0121stockpicker]

Wow this thread is as heated as the 2nd amendment thread. I love it. I admit I have an open mind but do find it interesting at the lack of any scientific explanation for why LRL should work. I know there are simple explanations to why metal detectors, ground penetrating radar, etc, etc. I don't know any electro - mechanical device that needs faith or meditation. I also thought that everyone agrees that "dowsing" is simply the ideomotor effect - a trick of the human brain. I've never seen any scientific literature backing up the claims of dowsers and many showing that it does not work any better than pure chance?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Water Diviner - Article 3
~0121stockpicker`

Wow this thread is as heated as the 2nd amendment thread. I love it. I admit I have an open mind but do find it interesting at the lack of any scientific explanation for why LRL should work.

Why don’t you ask a manufacture?

I know there are simple explanations to why metal detectors, ground penetrating radar, etc, etc. I don't know any electro - mechanical device that needs faith or meditation.

I don’t know any device that needs faith and meditation either

I also thought that everyone agrees that "dowsing" is simply the ideomotor effect

I have heard many skeptics say that

- a trick of the human brain.

Have you ever heard of trained or taught Ideomotor Responces?

I've never seen any scientific literature backing up the claims of dowsers and many showing that it does not work any better than pure chance?

Yes I see that claim all the time with no proof.
Water Diviner - Article 3

 

[fenixdigger]

Just like the photos of finds seem to never get recognized, the scientific ideas get lost as well. They have been posted, studies from physics groups, and research institutions. Sorry you missed it. Not doing it again.
Here's what you need to hear. On SOME devices, if you change 1 thing, miss 1 setting, change protocol just a little, a huge change in the results will happen. This tells me that something other than mental activity is involved. This has been proved countless times by MANY hunters. Daily.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Psychopaths go on my IGNORE list.

Alrighty then!
Never been referred to as a psychopath before or been put on ignore.
I see I've struck a nerve which wasn't exactly my intention.
All I'm saying is here I am....I understand spiritual matters.
If the LRL isn't just turn on and go......Then explain why you must meditate, let of ego, etc.
aarthrj3811 says it's just a matter of following the signals and there's nothing spiritual about it.
Is this entirely true?
I've been reading LRL/dowsing threads on here since 2002.
Am I just imagining all the mystic/spiritual talk associated with this?
Is there no psychic abilities required?
Since I'm on ignore (which is the most cowardly thing one could do here) then I'm speaking to a brick wall.
Another indication that this is all a hoax.
Well, I'm on my way now....gotta get to the Bates motel.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Alrighty then!
Never been referred to as a psychopath before or been put on ignore.
I see I've struck a nerve which wasn't exactly my intention.
All I'm saying is here I am....I understand spiritual matters.
If the LRL isn't just turn on and go......Then explain why you must meditate, let of ego, etc.

I don’t think it is turn on and go...You will have to talk to the guy that is meditating.

aarthrj3811 says it's just a matter of following the signals and there's nothing spiritual about it. Is this entirely true?

It is now but when I first started to use them I had to practice a lot.

I've been reading LRL/dowsing threads on here since 2002.

That’s good...Then you should understand the difference in the two methods of locating treasure.

Am I just imagining all the mystic/spiritual talk associated with this?

With LRL’s you are.

Is there no psychic abilities required?

As far as I am concerned there is not

Since I'm on ignore (which is the most cowardly thing one could do here) then I'm speaking to a brick wall.

I don’t see an ignore button.

Another indication that this is all a hoax.

Hoax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A hoax is a deliberately fabricated falsehood made to masquerade as truth.[SUP][1][/SUP] It is distinguishable from errors in observation or judgment,[SUP][1][/SUP] or rumors, urban legends, pseudosciences or April Fools' Day events that are passed along in good faith by believers or as jokes.[SUP][2][/SUP]
[SUP]I don’t think so[/SUP]

Well, I'm on my way now....gotta get to the Bates motel.

Go and have fun.. Let your imagination run wild...Art

 

[Muddyhandz]

Pulling out the dictionary eh?

I can do that too......

Meditation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check it out. Tons of spiritual and religious connotations.

You just made a big contradiction stating there's nothing religious or spiritual about operating an LRL but you do talk about meditation.

Here's a quote from the link......

"Meditation has been practiced since antiquity as a component of numerous religious traditions and beliefs."

I don't recall having to meditate before I go out and metal detect. Maybe I should!

 

[aarthrj3811]

Meditation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Meditation is a practice in which an individual trains the mind or induces a mode of consciousness, either to realize some benefit[SUP][1][/SUP] or as an end in itself.[SUP][2][/SUP]
The term meditation refers to a broad variety of practices (much like the term sports) that includes techniques designed to promote relaxation, build internal energy (chi, ki, prana, etc.) and develop compassion,[SUP][3][/SUP] love, patience, generosity and forgiveness. A particularly ambitious form of meditation aims at effortlessly sustained single-pointed concentration[SUP][4][/SUP] single-pointed analysis,[SUP][5][/SUP] meant to enable its practitioner to enjoy an indestructible sense of well-being while engaging in any life activity.

Check it out. Tons of spiritual and religious connotations.

You just made a big contradiction stating there's nothing religious or spiritual about operating an LRL but you do talk about meditation.

I said I don’t use the practice of meditation but if it helps the person that is their way.

Meditation has been practiced since antiquity as a component of numerous religious traditions and beliefs."

I don't recall having to meditate before I go out and metal detect. Maybe I should!

If that’s what you want to do go for it..Art

 

[olfacere]

I'm still waiting for everyone to stop yelling at each other and talk about LRL's again.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I'm still waiting for everyone to stop yelling at each other and talk about LRL's again

So am I..Art

 

[Muddyhandz]

A discussion about LRL's?
How's that going to happen with all the name calling? Psychopath, energy vampires that are possessed by evil entities, stealing your energy......
What next?
It's the internet. How could your energy be stolen?
I never called anyone any names but I'm going to say to you signal_line that you have read wayyyy too many self help/new age books!
It has distorted your sense of reality.
This argument has been going for over a decade here at T-net except now, we have someone talking absolute nonsense.
Not that the whole LRL topic wasn't rubbish to begin with.
None of you are interested in showing the "nonbelievers" any credible proof that these things work.
I thought I would attempt to understand this spiritually since faith is required but this is getting ridiculous.
Enjoy the discussion with yourselves because I'm outta here.
This forum should be renamed "the mental asylum."

 

[aarthrj3811]

Antonio Meucci discovered telephony. He had some sort of medical device he was working with a patient and in order to be certain he did not apply too much voltage he had one of the wires in his mouth. As he applied more power the guy yelled and Meucci heard the yell through his mouth.

Bingo Signal line...They are asking the wrong people how to explain how signals can be sent and returned to an instrument..Many Medical Imaging devices work on those principles that has nothing to do with X-Rays...Low voltage...Art

 

[olfacere]

I think it would be useful to either define the buzzwords in a way acceptable to all or to refrain from using them entirely. "Pyramid energy," as it is commonly known, is based on harmonic geometry. Certain shape-size-stiffness combinations vibrate well with themselves in certain ways and resist vibrations in other ways (e.g. direction and frequency). Then there is the piezoelectric effect, which is a separate consideration. There are some old stories about the pyramid at Giza once having a cap stone made of copper and crystal. I can't prove that's true, but it does sound a bit like a giant semiconductor setup.

As to meditation, it has wonderous effects when approached as a method of self-realisation and re-organisation. Meditation is a tool that is a part of the created, not something to be touted nor respected in and of itself. A person of right mind will find themselves meditating naturally, without having to force techniques and follow scripts. Seek first right-mindedness and all of your tools will make themselves available without any extra work (it's not really you that's doing it anyway; at least not the "you" that you think you are).

Now, back to LRL's. After doing some more reading, it seems that every model I've come across was really meant to be a dowsing-enhancer. This is not an impossible machine, but does bring along with it a load of problems. When you make the operator a part of the machine, you have a very hard time measuring the machine by itself. It's like trying to test the performance of a car, but you only have one driver and one track. Without more controlled variation, you'll always have some situations in which you can't tell whether some effect comes from the car or the driver. In testing machines, we must always control for individual differences in operators.

So, when a real machine is claimed to work and the operator is an inseparable part of the machine, how do we test it? First, we would need a group of operators. In theory, you could use only one if you found the right one first, but that would lead to unconvincing numbers. Get a small group of operators and repeatedly test (I would use three testings, a waiting period, and then three more testings) their individual dowsing skills with sticks and clothes-hangers. It would be best to test them separately so that they cannot effect each other as a group. That will provide certain expectations for the next phase of testing. Then see how all of them do with the machine in hand.

If the machine works really well, you would expect that everybody's numbers would go up. If the machine works somewhat, then you would expect everyone's numbers to go up slightly, but evenly. If the machine works, but is heavily dependent on operator skill, then you would expect the numbers of all of the best operators (from the first tests) to go up and the lesser performers should stay about the same. If there is no real difference between the clothes-hanger test and the machine test, then the machine doesn't provide a measurable effect according to your sample of operators.

 

[Carl-NC]

The fact is that there is nothing inherent in physics that prevents the construction of an LRL device.

Especially when you have the advantage of fabricating your own physics, as LRL makers do. Actually, "construction" of an LRL device is so easy a 5-year-old can do it, as apparent by some of the manufactured LRLs I've obtained. Getting it to work is the Really Tough Part.

All of them? How can you know about all possible designs of any kind of machine? You would have to test every LRL machine in existence in order to rationally claim that none of them work. Even then you still have no real basis for claiming that no one could ever build such a machine. Please provide me with scientific data that will dispell my doubts. What makes you think that it couldn't ever be plausible under any circumstances?

While you are technically correct, you're practically wrong. I own around 50 LRLs, ranging from $25 to $10,000 (original price, not what I paid). No, I don't believe LRLs work, but I like to collect them, and show people what they really are. Every last one of them is an outright fraud. Let me clarify: it's not that they simply don't work, it's that they are a FRAUD. They are designed NOT TO WORK.

Obviously, I have not tested every LRL on Earth, so somewhere there might be an LRL that really works. But trying to find a non-fraudulent LRL is like trying to find a non-fraudulent Ponzi scheme. If an investment scheme is non-fraudulent, it is NEVER called a "Ponzi scheme." Likewise, if a locator actually works, it is never called an "LRL." LRLs are called LRLs because they are fraudulent. And after a 100% failure rate on every LRL I've ever seen, I can say with extreme confidence that "none of them work." In fact, I am so confident, I have a standing $25,000 offer to anyone who can demonstrate a working LRL. How's that for confidence?

Finally, in fair disclosure, I'm the Engineering Manager for a major metal detector company. A friend of mine, who happens to visit this forum occasionally, is the Chief Engineer of a competing major metal detector company. If LRLs had any more than a snowball's chance in hell of working, we'd be all over these things. We're not even interested.

 

[woof!]

We do find them interesting from the perspective of understanding human nature.

No manufacturer of non-fraudulent electronic locators positions such as "LRL"'s, with the exception of Mineoro. Who manufacture both real stuff and fake stuff. Obviously, their engineers know the fraudulent from the non-fraudulent, but their less technically informed marketing department occasionally gets the two categories a little confused. Mineoro has provided a LOT of entertainment on LRL forums, even more than Chuckie because Chuckie came and went but Mineoro seems to be forever.

--Dave J.

 

[olfacere]

I'm willing to accept that all LRL devices someone has personally tested are frauds. I'm even willing to accept that all LRL devices that have thus far been constructed are frauds (which none of us could prove nor disprove without a working model). I came to this forum (LRL, not T-Net) to discuss the possibility of the future construction of a working machine. It seems that I'm the only one here who wants to take this perspective. I have somewhat of an R&D background, though I will not claim to be able to build this machine. I want to figure it out! That's the science! I would quote Edison here, but Edison was a d-bag. Tesla all the way!

As to designs, I have come up with something that might work, but it basically amounts to an extremely modified metal detector. I haven't at all been able to figure a way to use photonic radiation to achieve the effect over long distances (which seems to be the common claim embedded in the "resonance" concept). The only reason a good metal detector is able to go to impressive depths is the fact that it's using it's own EM field, rather than radiation. In order to get an undeniable LRL-type effect by this method, you would need a field comparable to the transformer on a power pole. Those things have fields that are strong even 30 feet away, but I certainly wouldn't want to walk right next to one for a long period of time.

So, please, does anyone have any serious ideas on how the construction of such a device might be plausible?