Opinions on these...

[Jon Phillips]

I don't usually buy points, although when people find out that I have an interest in them, they often give them to me, but I had to pick these up a while back....I'm no expert, but I have enough legit ones, and have handled enough fake ones from gift shops, that I can usually tell the difference. I even found one of the fakes....on the ground in St. Augustine, but it was an obvious cheapo reapro...and it was right outside a gift shop that sells them.

These look good to me (one...maybe two are a little questionable), but I would like you guys' opinion....They mostly look like coral Florida points, and most appear to have some genuine age to them.

I don't want to go into the details yet...just opinions (as far as is possible without holding them in your hands) on their appearance.

Thanks!

 

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[rock]

I might be wrong but I don't see them being coral or from Florida. Maybe #15 and #9 if any of them. Look like flint and or materials.
Nice group of points from my view. If you are giving any away let me know

 

[Jon Phillips]

Thanks.

Some (if not most) appear to be Florida types according to "The Anthropology of Florida Points and Blades"....All the sub-types confuse me sometimes, but lots of examples of these types in that book.

You are probably right about a lot of them being flint....we have plenty of sources of that around as well.

Here is the cover....even a few on there seem to match a couple....

 

[quito]

Good to see you posting again Jon!

Looks like you picked up some dandies!

 

[joshuaream]

Since you asked... Based on the picture (not the greatest detail) I see two that I kind of like, a couple that I definitely don't like, and couple that I could go either way about.

These two bolens look to be made correctly and the patina on the rock looks like what I have seen for dry land finds.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Good to see you posting again Jon!

Looks like you picked up some dandies!

Thanks!

 

[Jon Phillips]

Since you asked... Based on the picture (not the greatest detail) I see two that I kind of like, a couple that I definitely don't like, and couple that I could go either way about.

These two bolens look to be made correctly and the patina on the rock looks like what I have seen for dry land finds.

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Thanks for chiming in!

I agree they aren't the best pics, but it is just too hot and muggy to get any shots out in the sun!

Handling them in person, comparing them to ones I have that are known legitimate ones, and looking in the books lead me to believe that most are legit....

There are 3 of them that look suspect to me....

I could be wrong, but this one just doesn't seem to fit with the other types, and the notches just look too round to me....




This one has the "sandblasted" look of the modern, gift shop ones (though much better made)...It just doesn't have the shiny, "sheen" to it that most of the old ones I own have on them...




And this one...Well...just a lot of things jump out at me...the small size of it, the narrow, thin style, and how perfect it is, plus obviously the material...

 

[Jon Phillips]

The reason I didn't want to say more about the circumstances of the purchase was that I didn't want to taint anyone's opinions. I wanted just some opinions based on a cursory look.

The fact that I said that I bought them probably cast doubt on them in a lot of people's minds already.

I have noticed that when some people come on here with something they bought (almost always with hardstone pipes), the opinions tend to go towards fake/modern. That may be correct, but I have bought old things before that there is no money in faking...and often times paid way under value for antique guns, etc....So real things get bought and sold all the time, right along side the fakes. Old collections make it onto the market all the time. I do estate liquidations, so I know all about that.

If I would have said that I dug them all myself...then the people that trust me would lean towards real.

If I had said that I paid full blown retail (or higher)...or bought them on ebay...I'm sure most would believe (as would I) that they had a good chance of being deliberate fakes.

My point is...I know it is hard to make a call on them without holding them in your hand, and you would need to rely on some of the circumstantial evidence...which is just that...

I can see that with all these views, and not many willing to weigh in, that either people thought it might be a trap... ...or it was just too hard to form an opinion based on the pictures.

So here is the story on them:

I picked them up at an out of the way antique store. The guy had several riker cases of them...ranging from broken ones, to field grade ones, to average ones, and a few super nice ones in single cases...This case had some of the nicer ones in it, and the guy was naming the same types that were in my head just looking at them, so he wasn't playing dumb like most people that try to misrepresent something tend to do when they know they are fake. He said that he had bought them all a while back from a local guys estate auction, and had sorted them, and cased them up. The shop was brand new, and he still didn't even have all the shelves filled, or construction finished, so I don't think too many people had even had a chance to see them yet.

I only paid $275 for the whole lot, including the case...so that puts them at about $21 each...so I figured that any modern knapped point that was that nice would, at least, be worth that much...and if ANY of the nicer ones were real that would make the whole purchase worth it, and if most were legit...it would be a decent score!

When someone goes through my points one day...if they were to mix them all up...there would be a few fakes in there! I keep them separate, but someone else wouldn't know to!

Anyway...thanks for taking a look!

 

[jamey]

im no expert but i like em,i think you did really well.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Thanks!

No matter what...I enjoy them, and most look legit in person, and in good light...it wasn't really fair for me to ask opinions with sub-par pictures, but I have had a couple of weeks off from work, and have pretty much watched everything on my dvr, and all the on-demand movies that I care to watch, so I got slightly motivated to take some pics of things that I had been meaning to document....


Like these...wrong forum...but part of the family heirlooms!

 

[jamey]

yea i can not see anything wrong just from the picks,i know nothing about the pottery as i never see it,but i really like a few of the points

 

[Jon Phillips]

That last post I did is all South American stuff....some pottery, some carved stone. Neat stuff that you don't see all the time. I have a little more.

 

[jamey]

well maybe more than a few,lets see the rest of
the pottery the last pic looks like olmac.

 

[monsterrack]

I think you did well, the one with the round notches you where talking about, just from what I see the notches where made the right way by a type of indirect percussion.

 

[joshuaream]

Jon, looks like someone spent some time in Costa Rica.

Thanks!

No matter what...I enjoy them, and most look legit in person, and in good light...it wasn't really fair for me to ask opinions with sub-par pictures, but I have had a couple of weeks off from work, and have pretty much watched everything on my dvr, and all the on-demand movies that I care to watch, so I got slightly motivated to take some pics of things that I had been meaning to document....


Like these...wrong forum...but part of the family heirlooms!

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[joshuaream]

Thanks for chiming in!

You hit three of the four that I definitely didn't like. Photo-authenticity at the best will save you from buying a bad piece, but you'll undoubtedly miss good pieces along the way. Comparing them to known pieces, and what you see in the area is the way to go.

 

[Tnmountains]

Nice Jon. Will you keep the pieces or pass them on?

 

[Jon Phillips]

well maybe more than a few,lets see the rest of
the pottery the last pic looks like olmac.

I'll make a full post on the South American Artifact forum, with some more detail shots...

 

[Jon Phillips]

I think you did well, the one with the round notches you where talking about, just from what I see the notches where made the right way by a type of indirect percussion.

Thanks!

I was trying to look at them with a critical eye...Trying to be cautious.

Glad to hear that most seem to be legit!

 

[Jon Phillips]

Jon, looks like someone spent some time in Costa Rica.

Yep...Costa Rican stuff....I would have loved to have been the one who dug them, but they were purchased from the most awesome estate auction ever...Like if you went to Indiana Jones' estate auction.

I'll make a full post in the South American Artifact forum later on this afternoon....