Perfume Bottle from the 17th Century, Amazing that it was not broken by the JCB

[woody50]

One day while walking around doing some metal detecting in a large, deep and muddy building pit on a Sunday, I saw a glimmering of something a short distance away, and knew after a few more steps that it was a bottle. But I could not see if it was broken because it was sticking out of the mud about one third; so I dug it out very carefully. Most of the time the bottom of the bottles are broken off, but this bottle was whole!

It was laying almost in the tracks of some JCB's and tractors, who had just missed it by inches, and was still not broken! That is amazing enough! More amazing was the bottle itself, its of a type that I had never seen before. With a glass seal (can't read whats on it) and a neat pouring spout. And best of all it had a wonderful patina from laying centuries in the ground.

When I got it home it was easy to clean and only a chip off of the base was missing, so that I cannot stand it upright. It is estimated to be from at least the 17th century, or earlier. It is one of my about 10 small old bottles all with a wonderful patina, one of my best to date.

I have been told that its a quite valuable bottle, I estimate from the 17th or earlier centuries, not sure at this moment. But anyway a great find with the very good patina (you get that only after centuries in the ground, and then only certain ground). It has a prominent place in my main show case.

Thanks for looking!

 

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[jopher]

Thats a beautiful thing, and its truly amazing that such a fragile relic could survive the elements for soo long.

 

[woody50]

Thats a beautiful thing, and its truly amazing that such a fragile relic could survive the elements for soo long.

Yes it is, I have even found one or two smaller and thinner bottles, whole not broken, and then in-between the tread marks of a tracked excavator. Sometimes I don't even believe it. Didn't have a small camera with me back then, it would have been great to take those photos! Those bottles also had a nice patina...

 

[cntrydncr1]

simply beautiful! congratulations

 

[phantomfinder]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW That is sooooooo coool looking...

 

[kdismuke1]

great looking bottle. congrats.

 

[BuckleBoy]

This is honestly the most Beautiful bottle I have ever seen.

I had noticed it in your avatar before you made this post, and was going to PM you and ask what it was...



Now I know the story.



That is a fantastic find. It is truly a museum quality piece.




Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

 

[seger98]

That is a dandy!

 

[woody50]

Is that the remnants of the pontil (punty rod) on the ‘bottom’ or an applied base? The shape is more consistent with a Saddle Flask than a perfume.

I agree about the shape for sure SWR, but this thing is only 3½" high and 2¾" wide, and very fragile, so I don't really think so. Would not contain much water...

 

[woody50]

Is that the remnants of the pontil (punty rod) on the ‘bottom’ or an applied base? The shape is more consistent with a Saddle Flask than a perfume.

I agree about the shape for sure SWR, but this thing is only 3½" high and 2¾" wide, and very fragile, so I don't really think so. Would not contain much water...

How about the base? Is that the remants of the pontil (open pontil) or an actual base. I'm very curious.

Also, have you tried doing a pencil/paper rub of the shoulder seal.

Will look at the base tomorrow, when its light, and see if a pencil rub will work!
Will reply tomorrow...

 

[woody50]

So SWR here I am again.

1) I tried a pencil rub, but my paper is not thin enough and the symbols or letters on the seal are just not distinct enough to read on the paper that I tried, also looking at it under different lighting conditions gave no satisfaction, they are just not impressed hard enough on the seal, its a shame but maybe I can try one of my buddies when he is here, he is good at that...

2) There is no pontil, it is an applied base, a round piece of glass. One side is broken off, therefore it cannot stand anymore.

3) The spout is unique for me, never seen one like it (but have not seen many either!).

 

[ink-a-alot]

need imformation on old coffin flask and pumpkin seeds, of all sizes. is there a web site i can go to? I want to find out how much they are worth, allso have lots of old medicine bottles not ibm real old stuff all embossed with names of towns..

 

[woody50]

need imformation on old coffin flask and pumpkin seeds, of all sizes. is there a web site i can go to? I want to find out how much they are worth, allso have lots of old medicine bottles not ibm real old stuff all embossed with names of towns..

Can't help you there, but someone should be able too on this site....

 

[veronasteve]

hey woody youv'e opened my eyes to whats lurking around holland

 

[woody50]

hey woody you've opened my eyes to whats lurking around Holland

Hi Steve, well most of the time with metal dectorists the grass is greener on the other side. Holland was a great land to search in, until all the guys got the idea to do it too, and many only for money. Well just like many places it became a race with the 'other' guys to see who could find the most and sell it quickly. And they didn't ask permission, or pay attention to arch places. Used to be able to go onto building sites and search, but nowadays all the crane operators know the prices of things, (by the way, what we DONT find) and say no way. Its got very hard here, most building sites are after they are dug, immediately filled up with sand, they don't want anything to do with archo's. The owner from the ground has to pay for investigation of the ground himself, so if we search there and find something.... don't want to seem negative about it, but it's just not what it used to be. But you are welcome, send me an email...

 

[crazyjarhead]

Thats one cool bottle

 

[BuckleBoy]

The applied lip is very utilitarian, and not consistent with scent/perfume/cologne bottles of the period (early 1800)

on a bottle that dates at the latest to the 1600s?

 

[woody50]

The applied lip is very utilitarian, and not consistent with scent/perfume/cologne bottles of the period (early 1800)

on a bottle that dates at the earliest to the 1600s?

The bottle dates to the 1600s?

In my opion it dates to the 17th century, the dating that I have done refers to the other finds in the layer of ground it was found in.
I am far from a bottle expert. I should have said to the earliest instead of latest....

 

[woody50]

Thanks for your reply and pictures.

I believe the ‘base’ is actually the remains of the pontil (open pontil). A base would have been a solid gather of glass that has been flattened and applied before the annealing process.

The ‘spout’ is simply where the blowpipe has been broken off (removed) and fired smooth. It is not a formed spout. The applied lip is very utilitarian, and not consistent with scent/perfume/cologne bottles of the period (early 1800)

I tend to believe you have found a salesman sample bottle. It will be interesting to find out what the seal says. That will seal the deal (so to speak).

Yes the base was a solid piece of glass, about the same size as the seal. You cannot see it with the photos, but the whole center of the the solid piece of glass is broken out. In the photos it looks like a ring of glass, but that is not true. Pity its broke, can't stand up now. Can agree with the spout, the rest I will first ask around here. Thanks. I don't think I will be able to see anything in the seal, there is something, but to handle the bottle too much would not be good for the glass. I will try to enhance the photos though.

 

[kane23]

Woody, Nice bottle....Kane 23