PI advice, from an Excal 2 user

[SweetCorn]

The title is misleading... I need PI advice!! I'm not giving it.

I have only been Mding for about 9 months, but I manage to hunt 10-15 hours a week, sometimes more. I've learned a lot about saltwater beaches.
I've learned to read them and that the more you visit them in both good and bad days, the more you can learn about them.

I've been curious about PI detectors for awhile, but my Excal has done a sufficient job for me thus far. However, the summer beaches are getting fatter and fatter with more and more sand and the number of hunters is increasing as well and lots of them have the same machine I have. I need an edge, or I just need an excuse to get another machine

I've read that PI machines are more niche machines than everyday machines. Although some people certainly use them everyday. I get the feeling that the niche where this type of machine fits is starting to come into play where I hunt. I feel like I need maximum depth and great sensitivity. I realize I will dig more trash. I dig trash now, bottlecaps, pulltabs, foil, copper, aluminum blobs, foil drink caps, etc. And I'll dig deep trash too.

Maybe getting a PI machine will be a terrible idea and I'll go running back to my Excal, but I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger.

Am currently leaning towards these 2 models: Tesoro Sand Shark, Whites Surfmaster PI Dual Field. The Tesoro has a lifetime warranty and allows for multiple setups and the price is great. The Dual Field seems like a popular model that has definitely found some good stuff. I've never owned either brand, have an Excal and an At Pro right now. Are there other options I should be looking at? Any pros/cons with either of these units?
Thanks in advance.

 

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[Mudflap]

I have a Dual Field and like it, goes deep. However, if your get into an area with a lot of small (IE itty bitty) iron and metal shreds your going to dig you a$$ off. The Dual Field has a fairly heavy loop and is much easier to use with a nice straight shaft with the electronics mounted behind the cuff for balance. That's when I park the Dual Field and get out the CZ-21. The Sand Shark has a good reputation also.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Both are excellent, but I prefer the Sand Shark for ease of use and weight.

 

[CASPER-2]

I used a Whites PI Pro from about 1995 to 2007 - I went to many spots others had said they cleaned out and found old gold and silver down deep at these spots - they cleaned the out from surface to about a foot but left the deeper older stuff behind -some others saw what I was getting with mine and went out and bought PIs in the early 2000s and went back to their old spots and got stuff they missed with other machines - a small group of CT. guys got the dual fields when they came out and went back to a lot of "cleaned out" spots and found stuff even deeper - yes you will get a lot of junk but once you cleaned it all out - you will get stuff under it and hopefully you will only get the fresh trash if you can get all the older iron out - in New England waters we dot have the probs with iron like Fla. does - their bottle caps and nails cake up and last forever - up here our salt eats it up - so older bottle caps dissolve with time - so do most nails and other small iron - just small sample of stuff I got yrs ago with PI
fresh water hunt - see the small iron/steel - guys I knew that hit here would crank their discrim. up to pass this little amount of trash up - they'd
would miss smaller lighter gold all the time
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/members/29748-albums1590-picture636917.html
older rings from salt water spots
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565965/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565783/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565689/in/dateposted-public/
95% of this silver & gold was found with PI in water - rest was with XLT on land
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2232964459/in/dateposted-public/

 

[CASPER-2]

so - if you have the extra money - and want a back up - pick up a PI - maybe you can find some one that will let you try one first
I would hammer your favorite spots with the excal and then go back in after with the PI and take everything out that you can
good luck

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

I've been considering the Minelab SDC2300 for some meteorite hunting treks planned in the coming years. Mainly attracted to the portability and of course the brand. But I also intend to use it for some PI beach hunting. Just wish I could find more people who use one; the guys that seem to use them are mostly gold nugget hunters and they mostly don't post much on the web.

 

[OBN]

Have both the Garrett LS big mono coil, and the Whites DF.. And still prefer the Excal hunting in PP with a toggle.. I might suggest hunting in PP only for a week with the excal and see if you like it..crank up the sensitivity to 9am..Volume full..

 

[cudamark]

I agree with OBN. I hunt with a buddy using a dual field, and my modded Excals will find stuff just as deep, if not deeper, and without the annoying iron targets. We compare target signals all the time, and many times, he wouldn't get a good enough signal to dig, while I do. So far, he hasn't come up with a signal that my Excal wouldn't also hit, but, I've found a few he couldn't. His machine, a stock White's dual field.....12" coil. My setups ( I have a couple of modded Excals), one with a 15" WOT, and one with a 15" NEL Attack. Of the two, I would give the nod to the NEL by a slight amount. Both have the PP mod and upgraded headphones.

 

[sonnar28]

If you hunt wet sand frequently, I would suggest a TDI Pro with a mono coil. For pure depth, it is hard to beat, and does have some rudimentary hi conductor/low conductor discrimination , but the control box is not waterproof. The Garrett ATX is waterproof but the depth may be less than the TDI Pro.

The combination of an Excal (for water and discriminate hunting on wet/dry sand), combined with a good pulse machine, is a very powerful combination, but you will need to learn to use the PI machine differently from the Excal. If you plan to use your PI in the water, I would favor the Dualfield for depth and versatility, and there are several excellent books by Clive Clynick about pushing the Dualfield to its limits, and also one about using PI machines in general.

You may want to look at some of the TDI Pro videos on youtube, especially the ones by DetectorComparisons that feature several head to head comparisons of various pulse machines.

Using a pulse machine will improve your coil control, and will teach you aspects of detecting that many VLF-only users never fully master. I suggest at least trying a pulse machine if you are willing to really learn how to use it.

HH

Charles

 

[bigscoop]

The Excal in PP modes is just as deep as most PI machines, especially true with good threshold control (if it's not stable and adjusted properly it effects everything else). But this takes "a lot" of getting use to, patience, and more focus, but it's also how many very deep goodies can be identified that you'll otherwise miss. Another good way to hunt with the Excal is in disc silent mode, the threshold adjusted to just below audible and the volume and sense as high as can be managed but still remaining stable in the headphones, (even though it's tuned to just below audible the threshold needs to remain stable as well). Both of these methods will get you increased, and often surprising depth. But even with this machine and these methods deep sand is still hard to battle.

 

[bigscoop]

Spend a couple of hunts going ot the beach without any machine volume, just your threshold volume set slightly above audible. Now all you will have in your headphones is the threshold hum “and it's pitch changes.” Can you identify potential targets of value with just these pitch changes? I promise you that guys like OBN, and others like him, can. If you want more depth, often amazing depth, this is where it often happens.

So you get a high shift or medium shift in your headphones, now turn up your machine volume and see what PP says about the disruption? Switch to Disc and see what that says about the disruption? Sure, this is a lot of fiddling but you'll walk away with a much better understanding of why threshold is so important when trying to locate those really deep targets.

It's hard to force ourselves out of our usual comfort zones for fear of missing a good recovery that we might otherwise make. But the way I looked at it is I was already looking for a better way due to the lack of good recoveries so what did I have to lose? I sure learned a lot by doing exactly what I'm suggesting here. Even when in PP, the threshold is still analyzing those ferrous and non-ferrous anomalies and sending that information back to the processor and to the keen detectorist. Most hunters just aren't focused on it, just as I wasn't. This is what OBN and others on these forums, and elsewhere, have indirectly taught me over the years. See OBN, I may be a bit slow but I do pay attention in my own way. I just have to experience everything in my own way first for it to stick.

 

[Rick K]

Fisher has acquired a design known as the Manta - developed in France by a physicist named Alexandre Tartar. Alexandre is now a First Texas (Fisher, Teknetics, etc.) employee. The Manta offered good depth and an impressive iron discrimination function.

What Fisher will make of it and more important - when - is anybody's guess. That they will release a beach PI is now a virtual certianty

 

[dewcon4414]

I agree..... hunt in PP for a few weeks and see how you like it NOT using disc. Another thing...... in most cases if the sand has come in and is too deep for an Xcal its likely to deep for the PI. The disc machines leave a lot of targets.... and that extra couple of inches from a PI..... well you get the picture. BUT if you are patient and grid an area there is stuff there especially at the water line. Now..... if you had that same patience with the Xcal griding ect would you have gotten it? There are trade offs. During recent drop times your best bet is to cover more sand in and out of the water knowing you arent getting it all. I dont know what kind of shape you are in..... but digging takes a HUGE toll too. I think we all get in that ...... man i need a PI. but i think its more we have never tried one and want something different to play with. ANY water machine will pay for its self if you put in the time.

 

[SweetCorn]

This is all great info. I tried hunting in all metal mode the other day and it was painful. I don't know if I've got the temperment for a PI machine... I think I will experiment more with my excal using the suggestions given here as well as get the pinpoint mod as soon as i can. Im under the impression that if i do this mod before my warranty is up,.ill void my warranty. Is this correct?? Id like to get the pinpoint mod plus a larger NEL coil but September seems like an eternity away to wait for that.

I can rent a pi machine (sand shark) from a guy nearby which i think i will do for sure before pulling the trigger on a new machine.
As a general rule, do you stick to low tide line and water primarily for pi hunting? My all metal mode hunting was done between low and high tide lines in the wet sand which produced coins and trash but way more trash than I would pull in descrim mode.

Thanks for your input, it's very helpful.

 

[cudamark]

I believe if the mods are done by an authorized Minelab repair center (ie. Kellyco) that it keeps the warranty in effect. I'd check with them to be sure, along with the wait time to get it done! "Borrowing" a detector to use before you buy is a good idea. I would only use a PI machine in the wet sand or water. Too much iron and other junk in the dry.

 

[sonnar28]

I can rent a pi machine (sand shark) from a guy nearby which i think i will do for sure before pulling the trigger on a new machine.
As a general rule, do you stick to low tide line and water primarily for pi hunting? My all metal mode hunting was done between low and high tide lines in the wet sand which produced coins and trash but way more trash than I would pull in descrim mode.

Thanks for your input, it's very helpful.

The PI machine does not itself discriminate, but gives you extra depth compared to a VLF machine. So you have to provide discrimination by choosing wisely where on the beach to use it and also which targets to dig. One place to use a PI is a high water traffic area such as in the water/lower wet sand in front of an expensive hotel, where you either find little iron when you first go in with the Excal, or when you find few targets at all when you first go in with the Excal.

Also, I rarely dig targets that are distinct double hits in one direction but only one (usually softer) hit when scanned perpendicular, unless the double hit is very close together (a carry-over) or I am in prime ground. If you can learn to choose the solid, round targets and especially those that sound sharp, you are well on your way to becoming a successful pulse hunter.

Charles

 

[adamBomb]

Good advice on hunting in all metal to see how it is. Having said that, a PI is great for certain conditions. My big question to you would be, is the PI actually going to be deeper than your excal? Where I live a PI isn't going to be deeper (except for a select few PI machines that are super deep like the TDI). If you aren't hunting in sand that limits your Excal, the PI isn't going to give you an advantage.

The only times I would use a PI where I live would be if I was hunting in a place with very heavy mineralization that was affecting the depth of my CTX and it was a very clean area. The only other time I would use it would be if I was going into the water above chest deep (scuba/snorkeling). Otherwise my CTX beats the PI hands down.

 

[slider66]

I used a Whites PI Pro from about 1995 to 2007 - I went to many spots others had said they cleaned out and found old gold and silver down deep at these spots - they cleaned the out from surface to about a foot but left the deeper older stuff behind -some others saw what I was getting with mine and went out and bought PIs in the early 2000s and went back to their old spots and got stuff they missed with other machines - a small group of CT. guys got the dual fields when they came out and went back to a lot of "cleaned out" spots and found stuff even deeper - yes you will get a lot of junk but once you cleaned it all out - you will get stuff under it and hopefully you will only get the fresh trash if you can get all the older iron out - in New England waters we dot have the probs with iron like Fla. does - their bottle caps and nails cake up and last forever - up here our salt eats it up - so older bottle caps dissolve with time - so do most nails and other small iron - just small sample of stuff I got yrs ago with PI
fresh water hunt - see the small iron/steel - guys I knew that hit here would crank their discrim. up to pass this little amount of trash up - they'd
would miss smaller lighter gold all the time
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/members/29748-albums1590-picture636917.html
older rings from salt water spots
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565965/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565783/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2376565689/in/dateposted-public/
95% of this silver & gold was found with PI in water - rest was with XLT on land
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/2232964459/in/dateposted-public/

Really awesome finds Casper. Thanks for sharing the photos. Makes me want to jump in my car and head right out to the beach!

 

[grey95chevyboy]

Really awesome finds Casper. Thanks for sharing the photos. Makes me want to jump in my car and head right out to the beach!

Hey slider66 have you been going out lately? Everytime I hit Jensen and have a rough day, I think in the back of my mind slider must have just been here..��

 

[slider66]

I have been going out but to the south. Jensen is just to sanded in. The south has been good to me.




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