PI verses VLF

[Dave45]

If Im not mistaken and correct me if Im wrong a pi detects deeper even in mineralized soil and for a person that digs everything or hunts relics or cashe's then a pi would be your best bet.
How deep does a pi go, is it a motion detetor or is it like a vlf in all metal mode
would be great to here your opinions

 

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[bakergeol]

Hi Dave
I really hate it when no one responds to a thread. However most people here are VLF users not PI users so they can be excused. The PI has far greater depth than a VLF because it is not effected by ground mineralization as a VLF is. The deepest detector out there for small metal objects is Minelab's GP3500(gold nugget machine) The first time I used a PI I was just stunned by the depth of a PI over a VLF. It made my high end VLF look like a toy in the depth department. A PI excels in areas with heavy ground mineralization and will outclass a VLF every time in such areas and is preferred for deep nugget hunting. It will not detect "hot rocks"(depends on brand also) which bothers VLFs.

The reason why PIs have not been employed very much in the relic hunting department is the lack of or only rudimentary iron discrimination. When you relict hunt there is an incredible amount of trash iron out there and I mean deep iron. The infinium is currently the only PI on the market which offers a rudimentary form of iron ID and is not recommended for newbies.

However, things are changing quickly as a lot of research has been done with PI iron ID. This will be the next frontier for MD users not only because of depth issues but metal ID will be superior to a VLF as PIs are nor affected by ground mineralization.

Have patience. Fisher is going to introduce a new PI this year. I heard that Dave Emery has also sold his Pulse Devil(PI with iron ID) to a major manufacturer. Right now every one is waiting for Eric Foster's new Goldscan 5 to be released(this month). Like the Infinium it is a 2 tone PI. If it's iron ID is as good as it supposed to be it can be used for relic hunting. The advantage is that you can go back to old heavily hunted relic sites for deeper relics. Check out the PI forum as well as the nugget hunting forums for information on this PI in the upcoming months.

George

 

[Michigan Badger]

The only experience I had with a PI was back in the Stone Age (1980's).

I bought a model I think was called a "Deep Scan" which was made in the UK and sold by KellyCo.

It was a major letdown. Actually it was the worst detector I've ever owned. It came with a 10 or 12-inch search coil. When I tried to order a smaller coil KellyCo wrote and said they could no longer get parts for this machine. I thought like....great!

The machine was easy to setup but had very poor depth. My VLF Fisher 1260-X could beat it with no problem.

I paid about $1000 for the "Deep Scan" and sold it 1 year later for $125.

Sorry for this negative stuff but it's true.

However, today is another day.? Maybe today they're really great. Maybe my machine was defective from the factory? There are a lot of possibilities.

I sure hope they're good today. However, after my experience years ago, I'd have to see one in action before buying.

 

[northeast hunter]

hello..i own both the pi and a VLF...i use the pi detector manly on the beach in water,volleyball courts,and places with lots of sand....my best depth i have got with the pi is 16'' and that was only half way turned up...i did try it in my back yard and WoW no way....way to much iron in my yard...as the VLF..i have got about 8" with the stock coil...if you where to get a pi for relic hunting i don't think it would work very well...just my opinion..H H

 

[Willy]

Well, it's been a while, but here's my 2 cents. I have a Garrett Infinium & a couple of VLF's (had many over the years) an one of my popular hunting spots suffers from a few problems: extreme mineralization, loads of dissolved mineral salts (fertilizers & such), and piles of iron trash (all sizes). What this leads to is a vlf detector ID'ing a penny at 4-5" with an iron tone. This holds true for Minelabs, Garretts, Tesoros, Whites, etc. Also, there are many iron targets that will fool a vlf even in mild soil. I took the Infinium there and, due to the 2 tone ID & adjustable delay (disc.), was able to get basically the same treasure/trash ratio as with the vlf's... but at much greater depth. ..Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Well, it's been a while, but here's my 2 cents. I have a Garrett Infinium & a couple of VLF's (had many over the years) an one of my popular hunting spots suffers from a few problems: extreme mineralization, loads of dissolved mineral salts (fertilizers & such), and piles of iron trash (all sizes). What this leads to is a vlf detector ID'ing a penny at 4-5" with an iron tone. This holds true for Minelabs, Garretts, Tesoros, Whites, etc. Also, there are many iron targets that will fool a vlf even in mild soil. I took the Infinium there and, due to the 2 tone ID & adjustable delay (disc.), was able to get basically the same treasure/trash ratio as with the vlf's... but at much greater depth.? ..Willy.

This is not my thread but I just have to say...AWESOME!

A few months ago I was hunting a plowed field and got a broken signal with my Minelab. The signal wouldn't repeat well and was filled with iron like sounds.

I decided to dig it anyway since I wasn't getting much action. It turned out to be an Indian Head penny (as I recall) buried only 3 to 4 inches deep.

I wish you'd share a lot more.

Zeb

 

[Sandman]

I just had to add my two cents to this thread. As for just depth, the PI wins hand down in my experence. They are the one to use at a salt water beach near the water line only if you have a strong back and strong scoop as the targets can be deep. They love long iron nails, etc. They are not the best to find small white gold and for that you need a VLF. The best I have used for tiny pinhead size nuggets is the Minelab 3500, but it is almost worthless on a salt water beach and close to it on fresh water too. Do don't want to drop it in the water unless you have lots of BREAD.

New machines are out soon from most of the manufactures. I hope to get one to test/play with.

Sandman

 

[tallpaul]

cant wait to try the new troy machine,,, ho ho ho,,,,,

 

[tallpaul]

hey just been givin this some serious thought here,, and without going into a full blown story,,, at the end of the day we are still in the dark with detector progress,, when you look at all the other tecnology out there on other items,, where is the true tecnology in detectors,, in this day and age we should have far better machines,,, but also i guess they could be doing what the cell phone companies do also,, take it easy let them have a little at a time,, we need to make money,, so they want throw all they have straight at you in one go,, its fed slowly so we all keep buying and buying,,, look at kids with cell phones its a craze whos got the latest,, they just keep comeing,, and all the gadgets for them,, theres truth in this,..

 

[U.K. Brian]

Hi Zeb
The Deepscan was an Eric Foster design. Sold as twice as deep as any other machine anywhere in the world. The magazines over here made the dealers withdraw that bit. Mine worked fine with the big coil though it acted like a sail on a windy beach and the audio was not loud enough to deal with crashing waves. It was soon followed by a discriminating machine (all metal with ferrous /non ferrous indicated on the meter). That was called the PPD I. Smaller coil, balanced I.B. type. Worked fine on land but didn't cope so well on black sand. Protovale brought out the Pulse Analyst at the same time. This was built into the plastic case of the Whites induction balance machine of the time. Also a meter discriminator but also had an iron reduction switch for real bad areas.
Wrights of Bristol followed up some years later with the Groundhawk. Again you were searching in all metal with meter I.D. Discrimination was achieved by using a BFO discriminating circuit. One coil for this machine was worn round the waist like a skirt. A ring at waist level held by straps over the shoulder with a few tubes going down to the detecting coil near ground level. You just walked until the target was directly under you. Then you had the problem of digging the target.
A few years went by and Eric came up with the Goldscan which was DEEP and could be switched into both discrimination and ground cancelling modes. Excellent and the machine was gradually improved and the old chest mount (and very large control box) shrank in size and weight until it became a shaft mount....interchangable loops, switchable probe for pinpointing,discrimination and ground cancelling, frequency control and rainproof. Drawback, well there had to be one. The discrimination did lose some depth and desensitised the machine to some wanted coins.
More years went by and I received a large box from behind the old iron curtain with a rather large/heavy discriminating P.I. This had taken a step back in time by needing a huge amount of power. It looked like a motorbike battery. Plus it didn't work in the slightest. Back it went and several months on another box/crate arrived. This time it did work and discrimination was more than just ferrous. A digital meter would wiz around and finally settle on a number. Iron was a mid range number not set to the far left as in every other machine. Drawbacks....large, heavy and insensitive. I'm talking twelve inch coil giving a six inch depth. Still it gives a place to improve from.
Meanwhile Dave Emery produced his two versions of a discriminating P.I. which apparently work well and like the Pulse Analysist he used Whites hardware for his circuit. Its a pity he seems not to be bringing it to the market himself as his wife produced excellent artwork for the graphics. Last of all, theres a P.I. project under way in France so its exciting times.

 

[Willy]

I've been waiting for the Pulse Devil for years. I believe the idea of a kit was tossed around.. would have gone for that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, things have been kept pretty mum regarding the possible introduction of the unit as a commercial product. It would be nice to have a tentatively firm (oxymoron...I know) release date with projected price/ manufacturor. ..Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hi Zeb
The Deepscan was an Eric Foster design. Sold as twice as deep as any other machine anywhere in the world. The magazines over here made the dealers withdraw that bit. Mine worked fine with the big coil though it acted like a sail on a windy beach and the audio was not loud enough to deal with crashing waves. It was soon followed by a discriminating machine (all metal with ferrous /non ferrous indicated on the meter). That was called the PPD I. Smaller coil, balanced I.B. type. Worked fine on land but didn't cope so well on black sand. Protovale brought out the Pulse Analyst at the same time. This was built into the plastic case of the Whites induction balance machine of the time. Also a meter discriminator but also had an iron reduction switch for real bad areas.
Wrights of Bristol followed up some years later with the Groundhawk. Again you were searching in all metal with meter I.D. Discrimination was achieved by using a BFO discriminating circuit. One coil for this machine was worn round the waist like a skirt. A ring at waist level held by straps over the shoulder with a few tubes going down to the detecting coil near ground level. You just walked until the target was directly under you. Then you had the problem of digging the target.
A few years went by and Eric came up with the Goldscan which was DEEP and could be switched into both discrimination and ground cancelling modes. Excellent and the machine was gradually improved and the old chest mount (and very large control box) shrank in size and weight until it became a shaft mount....interchangable loops, switchable probe for pinpointing,discrimination and ground cancelling, frequency control and rainproof. Drawback, well there had to be one. The discrimination did lose some depth and desensitised the machine to some wanted coins.
More years went by and I received a large box from behind the old iron curtain with a rather large/heavy discriminating P.I.? This had taken a step back in time by needing a huge amount of power. It looked like a motorbike battery. Plus it didn't work in the slightest. Back it went and several months on another box/crate arrived. This time it did work and discrimination was more than just ferrous. A digital meter would wiz around and finally settle on a number. Iron was a mid range number not set to the far left as in every other machine. Drawbacks....large, heavy and insensitive. I'm talking twelve inch coil giving a six inch depth. Still it gives a place to improve from.
Meanwhile Dave Emery produced his two versions of a discriminating P.I. which apparently work well and like the Pulse Analysist he used Whites hardware for his circuit. Its a pity he seems not to be bringing it to the market himself as his wife produced excellent artwork for the graphics. Last of all, theres a P.I. project under way in France so its exciting times.

Thanks, Brian. I just found your post.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Hi Willy
I've got some great performance figures on our U.K. coinage for the Pulse Devil. I think it has been taken up by a major manufacturer which I thought was to be Whites but then C-Scope our biggest detector manufacturer has a new P.I. (CS 8Pi) due for launch and Dave Emery does come to the U.K. quite often.

 

[bakergeol]

Well some folks had better hurry because Auquest is coming out with the GD1000 a vlf/pi hybrid. Supposely superior in depth to a GP3500 with Iron ID to depth.
Yep should be interesting.

http://groups.msn.com/GoldDetecting...essage=17213&LastModified=4675548127262845055

George

 

[U.K. Brian]

Just as I was thinking that the Pulse Devil would go to Whites I find out that C-scope have yet another machine which will be in the shops Feb 2006. This is the CS4Pi. Rain, not waterproof so its going to be land/beach which together with its title might suggest some degree of iron reject (present P.I.'s are the 6Pi and the slightly uprated 7UMD (Underwater Metal Detector)). In the past their top of range machines had '4' in the title ie 4ZX. So perhaps Dave sold his circuit to C-Scope, though this is pure conjecture, it could just be a super cheap version of the 6Pi labelled CS4 to stick it at the bottom of their range.
Everyone suitable confused now ?

 

[tallpaul]

c-scpoes are quite good machines,, ive used a 1220R it was fantastic,, and some really good finds have been made with the 1220R, when i first started out i was with the c-scopes,, but favour minelab now,. i'll be trying the new M6 in florida,, if i like i'll by as a back up,, if not i may by another 1220R as a second machine,.

 

[U.K. Brian]

I had the original 1220 and a 1220 XD both of which worked fine but I've yet to hear of anyone sticking with the 1220R due to its I.D.'ing small hammered as iron in areas of medium and high mineralisation. Which is also the problem with the X-Terras in my part of the world. XLT works fine, DFX doesn't. Re enforces that you can't go by reports....try before you buy stll rules.

 

[tallpaul]

hi uk brian,,, lol dont know what part of the world your in,, but the x terra 50 works better than most where i am,, from west -east and nobody here is haveing any trouble with it,, guess some people still cant come to terms with a great machine comeing out for only ?500,, see the thing is so many peoples heads are rapped up in all the teck talk and pondering on this and that, and listening to other teck talk,, and not doing what they should be doing,, gettin out there detecting,, i see the guys here with cheeper machines and mid ranged machines finding all the goodies,, wheres the goodies from all the high end peeps to much talk and not enough detecting thats what i say.

dont take offence brian aint haveing a go at ya mate, just saying what i believe is a fact,, same thing is with cars,, you buy what you think is the best,, then he he he a new one comes out cheeper but better people say oh no cant be better,, i paid a fortune lol,, yer he got ripped off,, and that is life iam affraid,, the full turn arround is comeing now with detectors cheeper prices they no they will sell more and they are sill making a huge profit,.

take troy shadow for instance they fetch a new one out in the new year,, this should be a cracker to as the x5 was major,, but watch the price it want be to high they'll keep it down knowing it will sell even more,, remember the little apples are the sweetest,,...

 

[U.K. Brian]

I just saw a report on the U.S. metal detecting equipment site re the most accurate report on the X-Terras with a link to Garys U.K. Detecting test 'Laser Trident v X-Terra 50'. The Trident won on all aspects including price. 'The X-Terra 50 was clearly out of its depth, it cannot compete with the higher end machines' was his summing up.
I'm in South Wales, I assume Gary was testing around London so there's more than one area where its not doing to well. I quite liked it to use but can't afford to pass up on small/deep hammered. Now the Shadow X5 I loved and it had great depth here but being an old coal mining area I would be spending to much time digging deep coal/coke. With a little luck that might be worked around in Troys new models.

 

[tallpaul]

UUUMMM I DID PREDICT THAT GARY WAS GONNA SAY THE TRIDENT ll OVER THE TERRA after all he is a laser tesorro dealer,, lots of people backed me on that one,,, he was moaning about the shaft being to short straight off he even put pics on the site stood next to another detector,perhaps the soil down south is crap must be,, but up north it seems to be sweet,, we do find hammerds here even des dunne from minelab is finding them, give him a call he'll tell ya all about it, o well ....... lets see how well mine performs on the florida beaches and inland,,.