Placer gold recovery research Final summary. sluice and riffle report. Randy Clarkson

[Skiddum]

has anyone ever read this by RANDY CLARKSON riffle report. he was hired by the Klondike miners association to find out why they were loosing gold.
he irradiated the gold so he didn't have to run a thousand pounds of material through the wash plants and sluices. he could just watch how the gold acts. he also explains about riffles and corrugated steel. the proper angles on riffles, spacing and so forth and even and why you don't want to put the riffles on top of the corrugated steel because they work against each other instead of helping each other. they make a each make a vortex and when there placed on top of each other the two vortex work against each other and destroy what's supposed to happen and cause the material to compact making it almost impossible for the gold to get to tell mat.

after reading the report I've been getting away from standard sluices. every one says mine the miner. and apparently that's what allot of companies are doing. the report is not given to a select few you can download it all day every day off the net for free. and Randy Clarkson is one of the Major Authoritis on the matter. otherwise they wouldn't have called him up there to study what was going on. and it wasn't just some little thing either he watched every one of there mines and every piece of equipment they had for a good long time before coming to up with these results and he made more than 1 report before coming up with his final summary for them. I know I'm kicking the Hornets nest buy posting this to. I'm sure there's tons of people who use keene, jobe and a hundred other brand names out there.
but it's not like only a few people know about this. I'm sure all of them do.

So I'm getting away from coventional sluices. I got my bazooka 24 inch sniper yesterday. took it out and easily doubled what I normally would have got if not trippled what I would have gotten with my Keene.

does anyone know about these underflow sluices. never tried them but look interesting my biggest problem is that I work with 20 to 150 mesh if not smaller gold. at least in the areas I've been in. I'm sure some of the other areas out there have some bigger stuff. buy I haven't found much. if anyone uses an underflow sluice Id like you to chime in and let me know what you think. especially if you have a Bazooka and underflow and like both of them. I highly doubt I'll be using anything but my bazooka and some other stuff I've been looking into. I'm trying to find out how well they work as apposed to one another. I know they each have there ups and downs but just for information sake.

one day I'll get my ducks in a row and just make my own sluice. combine a couple different ideas into 1 sluice but will see. another thing I'm looking at is the Clean gold system. again the stuff Ive been working in is incredibly small and I really don't want to get into murcury. Wife, dogs and hopefully a little one here in the next year or so. that's the last thing I'd ever want to expose my kid to in any form. I'm sure you know what I'm saying on that level.

 

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[Vance in AK]

You may find one or two other Bazooka users here... I'm guessing some will pop up

 

[goldenIrishman]

The Clarkson report has a ton of good information in it but keep in mind that it was aimed at larger operations that are running tons of materials everyday. When you're operating at that level it's a whole different game. Equipment is built at a much larger scale just so it can handle the amount of materials that these types of operations move in a day, week or month. they have the equipment to move lots of materials, the processing plants to run it and lots of water available to wash the gold out of the materials.

The majority of the people on here work at a much smaller scale with equipment that is sized accordingly. Jobe, Keene and several other companies have been making equipment for a long time that has been aimed towards the small scale miner. Nothing wrong with this and their gear works well when set up in a manner that is correct for the conditions. If their gear didn't catch gold they wouldn't be staying in business nearly as long as they have. When the gear is "Dialed in" a stock sluice from any of these manufactures will do a very good job. The trick is in taking the time to get to know your gear. While I've never used a Bazooka brand of sluice, I have heard some very good reports on them from people whose opinion I trust. There are also new styles of mats available from GoldHog that will improve recovery rates on traditional style sluices and work very well on fine gold. I don't think that there is a single system that is going to capture all of the gold all of the time. Too many people expect to much from their gear at times and it's almost like they feel that the gear should do all the work for them automatically.

At the smaller scale of mining like most here are involved in, it's hard to get every bit of the gold out of the materials. There are just too many variables involved. Everything from the changing composition of the materials, the amount of water flow, the angle of the sluice and the type of riffle system within the sluice are going to effect the recovery rates from area to area. It's rare that a small scale miner can have their gear set up in a permanent location. This alone is going to cause gold to be lost. Larger operations will set up their processing plants and once dialed in, they're not moved unless it's absolutely necessary. This allows them to run tons of materials a day and get the best recovery rates. Even then, a slight change in the composition of the materials can effect those recovery rates.

I feel that a good way to really learn what works best for the equipment you have is to set it up as a recirculating system. This will give you the ability to learn just what angle, flow rate etc works best for your particular setup. You can capture the tailings and rerun them to make sure that you're not blowing gold out the end of your sluice. Once you know your system as well as possible, it becomes second nature on how to set it up. Keep in mind though that even as a recirculating system there are going to be changing conditions. The more materials you run, the more your water is going to thicken up from small particles in suspension. If your water is filthy, it can cause smaller gold to float and you will blow it right out the end of the sluice and could also damage your pump(s). A large tank that will allow the crud to settle out of the water before being run through the sluice is best, but it's not always feasible. This is particularly true in portable re-circ systems like those we use in the desert areas of the southwest. These systems require changing the water out from time to time to prevent it from floating gold out of the sluice as the amount of fine particles in suspension increases. The operations that Clarkson was dealing with had lots of water to work with so it was always fresh.

Your idea of having a sluice with several different areas using different capture methods is a good one, but it's pretty much already been done for you with the GoldHog Mats. These mats come in several different riffle styles and can be mixed and matched to give you the best capture rates for the type and composition of the materials you're running. If you haven't done so, I'd suggest yo check them out. They could just save you a lot of work.

Avoiding Mercury is also a good idea, especially when you have young children in the household. Other options would include the "Blue Bowl" system or a Miller table. Neither of these methods use anything nasty that could cause a health risk to you and yours.

 

[dredgeman]

There are lot of good reports from Canada and some universities. Basically they all say the same thing that you are experiencing now. Clarkson report is great info.

We use undercurrent sluice for dredging and sluicing. So large or small operation will benefit from using different collection methods. The Hog mats work well for converting aluminum boxes to a better recovery.

Drop systems work very well and is basically what the Hog mats duplicate. Mostly we use Larger fluid bed systems instead of any riffles or matting at all.

 

[ratled]

You should find one that was put out by a miner that goes by Zooka. Hard to find but it's still out there (if you find it cut n paste here).

ratled

 

[Reed Lukens]

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #50479 - Riffle theories, ideas, and designs

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #51377 - More on miners moss

Pro-Mack Mining-- Underwater Mining Specialists-Size of riffles

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #60467 - metal miner's moss and sluice testing

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topics in Quick Guide to Useful Tech & DIY Links

http://www.hecklerfabrication.com/files/sluice-build-partIII-2.pdf

here's a few old words

 

[Skiddum]

thanks guys. I've been running my Keene A51A for about 4 months now. and probably watched 100+ movies on how to set this thing up right. and it does alright but I've recently been using the two bucket method, pretty much a centrafuge system on my tailings and what I loose from the keene it collects fairly easy. but I'm loosing quite a bit. and it seems like every thing I try I can't get it to do what I want. it does collect 20 to 50 mesh fairly well from what I've noticed. and I've tried V mat both deep and shallow, a mix of fine gold matting, like vortex, miner's moss, and V mat. straight miners moss. and quite a few different things all together. but it still has a hard time collecting the smaller stuff. I've tried different water speeds angles and so forth. the best I've found is when the water level is just bearly above the riffles. I think the biggest problem is the first riffle. it straight launches the water over the next two riffles. so any of the fines my ride the water right over half the trap. I've woundered if it's set to steep. my friends A52 never had that problem.
it's not for lack of trying I've even though about getting the kryorsos Vortex insert system. and I always classify down to 1/4. I've got a little wire bucket I bought for a dollar at tge doollar store and got some hardware cloth and wrapped around it. it makes classifing super easy just fill the big bucket with water and set the wire bucket inside it and fill the wite bucket up. once it's full just shake and spin it takes 3 seconds. that easy. even with the bazooka I used it and major increase. I know you don't need to classify with the bazooka but with that little guy there's almost no point not to. except 1 a regular bucket is HUGE. if I could find a smaller 1 bucket the little 1 would still sit in I'd use it. just cause packing the bucket up to some of the areas I go is ungodly. it's not Cause there heavy it's just the bulkyness. a 4 mile hike up with gear plus packing the bucket. but anyway I was thinking about the underflow sluice cause they claim it'll catch 300 mesh. but have never talked to anyone who's used 1. and the 1 place I like going has tons of ultra fine gold. 100 mesh and smaller. I'm going this week and I'll post some pictures of what I get. the stream isn't very fast either so I'm hoping the bazooka minis get her in time. just cause there suppose to not need anything super quick. but then again so is the 24 inch sniper. it's just a bigger trap than the 24 inch super mini. but will see. im.just Goin to take the le trap pans up and our regular Keene dual riffle pans up. the garret gravity trap works well to but for the fine stuff I like the duel riffle of the Keene. but the le trap I can use the clasifier in. my wife came up with that idea. OOOO and I got the Pyramid pro finally. can't wait to test it out up there. but again the blacksand is killing me. I have a blue bowl and blackmagic. I love the black magic it works great. the blue bowl EEEEA. I like it just not for cleaning my cons. Maybe the super cons. I Need to Finish my classifier set. I've got half inch down to 50 mesh once I get the rest, especially a hundred mesh screen then maybe I'll like it more. it's just SOOOOO slow. also anyone have anything better than jet dry. Ibe seen this Clay gone stuff. it's supposed to be better than jet dry but it still says adding a drop of dawn dish soap helps.

also I've got a ton of blacksand Now. I've herd people talk about using a rock tumbler on black sand then use a blue bowl again. anyone tried this. is it worth it. and if so anyone know what a good rock tumbler is. all the ones ive seen have a mix of good and bads. the goods are like great shipping and so on. but the bads are about the proformance and the parts. I found 1 that looks really good but 200 hundred dollars is allot for something I might only use once or twice a year. but In those couple times the machine would be going for a couple weeks non stop as I went through all the blacksand that I've Come up with.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #50479 - Riffle theories, ideas, and designs

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #51377 - More on miners moss

Pro-Mack Mining-- Underwater Mining Specialists-Size of riffles

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topic #60467 - metal miner's moss and sluice testing

Prospectors Cache Forum - Viewing topics in Quick Guide to Useful Tech & DIY Links

http://www.hecklerfabrication.com/files/sluice-build-partIII-2.pdf

here's a few old words

Thanks for the links Reed.

Tons of reading to dig in to.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

thanks guys. I've been running my Keene A51A for about 4 months now. and probably watched 100+ movies on how to set this thing up right. and it does alright but I've recently been using the two bucket method, pretty much a centrafuge system on my tailings and what I loose from the keene it collects fairly easy. but I'm loosing quite a bit. and it seems like every thing I try I can't get it to do what I want. it does collect 20 to 50 mesh fairly well from what I've noticed. and I've tried V mat both deep and shallow, a mix of fine gold matting, like vortex, miner's moss, and V mat. straight miners moss. and quite a few different things all together. but it still has a hard time collecting the smaller stuff. I've tried different water speeds angles and so forth. the best I've found is when the water level is just bearly above the riffles. I think the biggest problem is the first riffle. it straight launches the water over the next two riffles. so any of the fines my ride the water right over half the trap. I've woundered if it's set to steep. my friends A52 never had that problem.
it's not for lack of trying I've even though about getting the kryorsos Vortex insert system. and I always classify down to 1/4. I've got a little wire bucket I bought for a dollar at tge doollar store and got some hardware cloth and wrapped around it. it makes classifing super easy just fill the big bucket with water and set the wire bucket inside it and fill the wite bucket up. once it's full just shake and spin it takes 3 seconds. that easy. even with the bazooka I used it and major increase. I know you don't need to classify with the bazooka but with that little guy there's almost no point not to. except 1 a regular bucket is HUGE. if I could find a smaller 1 bucket the little 1 would still sit in I'd use it. just cause packing the bucket up to some of the areas I go is ungodly. it's not Cause there heavy it's just the bulkyness. a 4 mile hike up with gear plus packing the bucket. but anyway I was thinking about the underflow sluice cause they claim it'll catch 300 mesh. but have never talked to anyone who's used 1. and the 1 place I like going has tons of ultra fine gold. 100 mesh and smaller. I'm going this week and I'll post some pictures of what I get. the stream isn't very fast either so I'm hoping the bazooka minis get her in time. just cause there suppose to not need anything super quick. but then again so is the 24 inch sniper. it's just a bigger trap than the 24 inch super mini. but will see. im.just Goin to take the le trap pans up and our regular Keene dual riffle pans up. the garret gravity trap works well to but for the fine stuff I like the duel riffle of the Keene. but the le trap I can use the clasifier in. my wife came up with that idea. OOOO and I got the Pyramid pro finally. can't wait to test it out up there. but again the blacksand is killing me. I have a blue bowl and blackmagic. I love the black magic it works great. the blue bowl EEEEA. I like it just not for cleaning my cons. Maybe the super cons. I Need to Finish my classifier set. I've got half inch down to 50 mesh once I get the rest, especially a hundred mesh screen then maybe I'll like it more. it's just SOOOOO slow. also anyone have anything better than jet dry. Ibe seen this Clay gone stuff. it's supposed to be better than jet dry but it still says adding a drop of dawn dish soap helps.

also I've got a ton of blacksand Now. I've herd people talk about using a rock tumbler on black sand then use a blue bowl again. anyone tried this. is it worth it. and if so anyone know what a good rock tumbler is. all the ones ive seen have a mix of good and bads. the goods are like great shipping and so on. but the bads are about the proformance and the parts. I found 1 that looks really good but 200 hundred dollars is allot for something I might only use once or twice a year. but In those couple times the machine would be going for a couple weeks non stop as I went through all the blacksand that I've Come up with.

Lots of interesting information in your two posts. It's got me rethinking river sluicing . . .

Thanks, and all the best,

Lanny

 

[russau]

You should find one that was put out by a miner that goes by Zooka. Hard to find but it's still out there (if you find it cut n paste here).

ratled

ZOOKA (Dave Bryce) is the co-owner of Goldminers on yahoogroups lots of knowledge / experience!!!!

 

[specksandflecks]

-Skiddum- What does the ~$90. LeTrap have in common with 10k+ usd shaker tables, besides maybe the color?

Smooth, low coefficient of friction surfaces with recesses in them.



The cement mixer ball mill. Most miners who do this are using mercury amalgamation, as at that point it has probably already been run through jigs,BB's etc.

Some concentrates can still contain sulfide gold after all the free gold and even free milling gold has been removed. In which case you have to roast the sulfides off before the acids can act on the material to separate the gold. Sulfides can be broken down in other ways less toxic also. To what extent/size this material should be crushed to before roasting I do not know. I do know the smaller you crush something up the more surface area it will have...

Primary,secondary and tertiary concentration is probably a lot to ask of 1 single small scale system. If anyone happens to find something like this that will also screen 3 sizes, weighs less than 50 lbs and cost under $200. Please send it to me for testing and evaluation. I will pay the shipping!

 

[Skiddum]

Thanks. I've got OCD so once I set my mind to something I'm very dedicated to doing it. so I dedicated myself to finding the best equipment In my price range and finding out the most I could. So anyways I have been looking at some of these drop riffle sluices. I like the reccon 2 from AM. what's the difference between AM and LE TRAP. The recon 2 looks like a really great idea. to force water in the suddenly open up to drop pressure and drop everything down on the riffles. and the double riffle design so the really fines get caught in the small riffles while the large part traps the larger riffles

 

[specksandflecks]

Not sure. Went to AM website, hadn't been in a while. They have more sluice options now than I last remember. Similar to Letrap in a lot of ways. I think Kevin Colorado said he has both AM and Letrap ? Note top 3 Letrap riffles. See the flat surface between the riffles? The riffle creates a drop, which is good, in doing so it mixes the thin film of slurry.The flat spot lets things settle again ever so slightly. If your gold spends most of its time in contact with the bottom surface of the sluice it tends to collect easier IME. IMO you want the gold sliding along the bottom as the path of least resistance. If the gold gets stuck while still being exposed to the full current in the sluice, it is more apt to tumble or kite and we don't want that.

Original intent of Letrap might have been to concentrate concentrates although I'm not sure. It does this very well. That might explain why its a lower capacity sluice than similar sized. It could have been designed to fit inside a dredge sluice.

These type of riffle work very well but they can't handle much volume. Letrap is going to be classifying to ~1/8" and feeding with a hand trowel.

 

[Skiddum]

I've seen the Le trap has the same double riffle design it's just allot bigger than the AM recon 2. length and wide. but the boss 2 has the same design just larger about the same as the le trap. I do really like the AM I'm thinking about getting 1 just to try it out but at the same time If I classifie my bucket down 2 1/4 or 1/8 and run it through the bazooka I can almost see the same results. But I'm not sure. the classifier I have is 2 easy not to use. I bought 2 wire buckets from the dollar store. and wrapped them with 1/4 and 1/8. I just fill the bucket with water and then place the wire bucket up and fill it up with dirt. once it's full I just lift and spin the wire bucket back and forth it empties in seconds. it's really a nifty idea. I've also been thinking of making a wire Frame and placing some 1/4 to 1/20 mesh around it. the Fram would sit inside what ever sluice I built it for. the all you'd do is set it in the mouth of the sluice. the top frame would rap around the top of the sluice holding it in place. and all the dirt would be washed out buy the current and down the sluice. but yeah just an idea. But I'm still reallythinking about getting an AM just for these slow streams. but then again my mini works just fine in the one I'm using it In and I haven't been classifing anything. I k own it would help though. I'm thinking about just taking the Le trap square pan and put the little wire bucket in there and fill it up. its common knowledge that gold may be heavy but if your running stuff allot bigger than the gold your trying to catch in your sluice the largest items will kick the smaller stuff out. so I've thought about using a classifier at least 1/8 or smaller like 12mesh or so depending on how small I'm after. but thus far I haven't had any problems. and the stream I'm running is incredibly slow and shallow. but the mini does hold it just fine