Possible fallout against detectorists from Indiana Jones movie

[Silver Fox]

As far as I know the first Indy movie "RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK" didn't affect our hobby but by the indications this latest offering from Hollywood could prove problematic here and there for us detectorists. I say this because this latest Indy movie is offering more excitement than most H'wood movies and the outpouring of articles and TV documentaries connected with archaeology might get some of them to become more offensive in their public opinion of metal detecting, if asked.

Besides, it's not the quality of the CGI-laden movie which by the trailers doesn't look THAT good, not up to the "standards" set by "RAIDERS..." It's Harrison Ford that's the attraction but behind him it's his adventures as an archaeologist. I just saw a 2-hour TV documentary in which they mixed portions of the movie with real-life archaeologists and some of their adventures, nothing close to Indy's. But the interviewed archies were aglow with the new-found fame.

Also, the DAILY NEWS had an article in today's paper in which they feature interviews with several NYC archeologists. All of this attention is eventually going to archaeologists being asked what they think of metal detectorists and we are going to be badmouthed with the exceptions of those coming to our "rescue" by saying how useful we can be and talking about such locations as Little Big Horn where detectorists were helpful. Also, in some crime locations in which such objects as guns were found with detectors. None of the archies included in the newspaper article mentioned the Staten Island detecting club which is associated with returning found history to Staten Island.

It may not happen as I've speculated. But if it does, put on YOUR fedora, get your whip out and make some noise. Indiana Jones, yeah right!

Silver Fox

 

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[radarwill]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey Silver Fox! I too saw portions that 2 hour "history channel" documentary last night. I wondered about its implications to our hobby. Of course, I quickly changed the channel when my wife walked in, lest she think I hop fences into old cow pastures to look for foundations, or "raid" that "archaeologically sensitive" mercury dime out of a park somewhere

Yeah, anyone who metal detects is immediately on par with a grave robber like Indiana Jones! But it's a slippery slope if you think about it I mean, yeah, a wheat penny or barber dime in a park is a long ways from a grave-site. But if you're some bureaucratic law maker making laws, you always take the high road. Thus we get caught up in the loop And of course, our hobby has never been a friend of the archaeologist camp, so when they interview scads of them for this documentary, how did you THINK we would fare? That's why I do all my detecting at night. Just like picking your nose: "out of sight is out of mind"

 

[truckinbutch]

Archies were darn sure selfserving and negative toward us in that History Channel program last night.

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey all,
I just go back from the movie and it was GREAT!!!!! The movie continually pointed out that " DR " Jones was arche however, he actions were not of one who takes his time as a arche would do. He worked as if he had the heart of a THR, and his fellow arche was even worse...It wouldn't expect too much fall out if any...

PLL

 

[satansfollower]

I doubt anyone with half a brain would look down on metal detectorists because of a movie.

The problem is archies. Most of the ones ive met or talked to think we owe them everything and when we refuse to do what they want they paint a horrible picture of us.

A friend of mine found an item and had archies try to tell him he "better tell them where he got" and demanded to know the site info and location.

Loser archies with nothing better to do that be pissed off that their dreams of being the next Indiana Jones didnt come to fruition are the ones you have to look out for.

I personally will never tell an archie anything. I will destroy or hide anything I find before they have a chance to take it.


They demand respect while acting like total jerkoffs. To any archies that may read this,sorry,your brethren are making you all look like jerks.


Im not saying all archies are bad. But claiming the moral highground while trying to make a "name" for yourself is pretty stupid. Trying to use strong arm tactics to get what you want amounts to nothing more than extortion in my opinion.

 

[WilliamTheFinder]

I'm not sure I know the lingo, so I'm going to guess that Archie is slang for an archeologist or fanboy archeologist or some-such thingymabob.
I'm not one, but I work in close concert with them (the real ones and the wannabe's)...I'm the guy who does the research, though I've been to and seen a few digs.

I won't lie that Indiana Jones and his older 1920's-1930's company got me interested in the more physical elements of history, but me and any sane and ethical digger are fully aware that he's fictional...it'd be sort of like an Astronaut who was inspired by Flash Gordon. I'm neutral on the subject of Archeologists and Academics, some can be real scumbags, but you'll get those in any line of work. (And yes, I do have the freedom to avoid working for the ones I find patently unethical)

As for the history channel, I don't watch it much anymore because it depresses me. Some stuff is really very good, most of it is sensationalist "Lost Crystal Secrets of the DaVinci Aliens prophecy" style tripe. I like to dabble in that stuff a little, but I also like to read fantasy and science fiction...it has little to no place on a channel about history.

 

[Silver Fox]

I didn't mean to imply that the movie ITSELF would have any impact on our hobby; only the TV presentations where some archies are interviewed about not only how Indiana Jones movies portray real-life archies but how they feel about their sometimes adventurous jobs. Indiana Jones is based on fantasy and I doubt that any real archie even comes close to what Indy puts himself through.

Archies that work outside of the US hardly ever deal with hobbyists so they have nothing negative to say about us. It's the ones in the U.S. that see us as "competitors" although we're not after the same things they are.

While archies may see themselves as necessary for the continuing knowledge they may gain and pass on to us about our past, the truth is that nothing that has ever been found by archies has changed the world one iota. We keep getting up in the morning and going to work and then home, dinner and some TV watching or, in our case, some THing.

There has not been one strong voice or group of voices telling off the archies and pointing out that what they do is simply find stuff, sometimes steal it "legally," and then hide it in vast storehouses on millions of shelves, drawers, whathaveyou. Unfortunately, they have world authorities on their side and no matter what strength you gather in number of fed-up hobbyists, they can gather the mighty power of governments.

At the moment they don't have enforcing powers over you and your equipment so any encounters you may have will be up to you to bring to a peaceful resolution simply by being respectful but stern because you know that no matter how much they preen and make themselves important they're still graverobbers and you can tell them so. Remind them that there are still quite a few governments that are demanding their stolen artifacts be returned which some museums are being forced to do. Returning these stolen items frees up museum display space and then the museum can go to ITS storage and bring out more for the public to view!

Also tell them that they have enough artifacts in storage without necessitating the few objects that you are finding with your metal detector. We don't have to take a backseat to archies.

Silver Fox

 

[relichunters]

I understand what you mean. Some detectors give everyone else a bad name.

 

[WilliamTheFinder]

I didn't mean to imply that the movie ITSELF would have any impact on our hobby; only the TV presentations where some archies are interviewed about not only how Indiana Jones movies portray real-life archies but how they feel about their sometimes adventurous jobs. Indiana Jones is based on fantasy and I doubt that any real archie even comes close to what Indy puts himself through.

the truth is that nothing that has ever been found by archies has changed the world one iota. We keep getting up in the morning and going to work and then home, dinner and some TV watching or, in our case, some THing.

I typically argue that historical scholarship is MORE interesting and action packed than the history channel portrays. No documentary or action-adventure movie can possibly convey the electric feeling that you get when you realize that people have been translating that one word wrong all these years...and consequentially have been looking in the wrong place or talking about the wrong person. I'm sure it's similar to what you guys experience when you see that glint of metal under the earth.

Academia et. al. has a VERY overinflated version of how much it contributes to the world...very elitist in my mind
however, I feel we have contributed significantly to how humanity sees its place in the world...I may just be saying that because my current and future job depends on it being relevant...so make of that what you will.

 

[radarwill]

I doubt anyone with half a brain would look down on metal detectorists because of a movie.

Thats what I was trying to say! Excellent point!

 

[WilliamTheFinder]

agreed...I'm mostly agreeing with you because of your picture...dear lord I love that woman...
and that historian/metallurgist that was on the colbert report last night...me and my girlfriend have an...understanding...about those two...

course, I had to make a similar pact about several actors on Grey's Anatomy, but I digress:

If anything, Indiana Jones is a poster-child for the love of treasure hunting...he's an Archeologist, but definitely a hunter at heart.

 

[radarwill]

You would think that HOT and SMART women would just naturally go for the TH'ng type.
I don't see it happening.

 

[WilliamTheFinder]

well, I'm pretty happy with my darling woman, who's a little more into the profession.
Still doesn't take me seriously though...but that's probably in a significant other's job description.

She hates the history channel too...it's basically the Guns, Conspiracy, and Hitler channel these days. Being a hermetic tradition/alchemy/history of science/history of religion nut, it's really kind of empty for me.

 

[Silver Fox]

I didn't mean to imply that the movie ITSELF would have any impact on our hobby; only the TV presentations where some archies are interviewed about not only how Indiana Jones movies portray real-life archies but how they feel about their sometimes adventurous jobs. Indiana Jones is based on fantasy and I doubt that any real archie even comes close to what Indy puts himself through.

the truth is that nothing that has ever been found by archies has changed the world one iota. We keep getting up in the morning and going to work and then home, dinner and some TV watching or, in our case, some THing.

I typically argue that historical scholarship is MORE interesting and action packed than the history channel portrays. No documentary or action-adventure movie can possibly convey the electric feeling that you get when you realize that people have been translating that one word wrong all these years...and consequentially have been looking in the wrong place or talking about the wrong person. I'm sure it's similar to what you guys experience when you see that glint of metal under the earth.

Academia et. al. has a VERY overinflated version of how much it contributes to the world...very elitist in my mind
however, I feel we have contributed significantly to how humanity sees its place in the world...I may just be saying that because my current and future job depends on it being relevant...so make of that what you will.

I agree wholeheartedly with you and have found many instances where what you say about mistranslating has been pointed out. I've always been a critic of the mis-named "History" Channel for I know of a lot of b.s. that has been presented as fact. It should be called "Pseudo History Channel." I'm an armchair researcher and now with the Internet there's no end to what one can find out. But I do a lot of historical reading also, sort-of concentrating on biblical research. At the moment I'm reading Tudor Parfitt's 2008 book "THE LOST ARK OF THE COVENANT." Curiously, I also just taped a 2-hour documentary on Tudor possibly dealing with the contents of the book as I haven't viewed it yet.

What I find, though, is that highly educated individuals can sometimes be wrong with the "facts" they present. The way I see it, though, is that no matter how educated you are, someone else discovers something else about what is being discussed in books and the media and the highly educated person is not aware of the new findings. I've written to many such individuals to alert them to the new info so that they can consider changing their POVs and sometimes these people are sold only on THEIR research and have no desire to learn something new or be proven wrong. It's frustrating.

History is, no doubt, interesting and to some necessary. But the world would not be any different if the past was not known. Which is why a lot of history remains lost as non-knowledge of it did not interfere with progress. It is even surprising how advanced the ancients were but we are learning now what they knew then. We just keep trucking along not aware of what's behind us.

Silver Fox

 

[greydigger]

OK this may sound dumb, but are you talking about the new Indiana Jones movie about the glass head? It just came out today so I haven't seen it. Will wait a couple years for the TV version.
Now the "Archies" have that title why? They have a diploma from somewhere they can flash in a government officials face to show they are not mere folks looking for old stuff. Do I have that wrong?
Gosh, I remember "Diploma Mills" where folks could pay someone some money and get a diploma for anything you wanted. All printed up nice and fancy.
I'm sure someone could "Certify" that (whomever) is a bonafied archie with lots of letters after their name according to the Institute of Highest Knowledge found on the Planet Earth. Then you too can be an archie. (Not sold in stores, limited time only)

 

[Silver Fox]

OK this may sound dumb, but are you talking about the new Indiana Jones movie about the glass head? It just came out today so I haven't seen it. Will wait a couple years for the TV version.
Now the "Archies" have that title why? They have a diploma from somewhere they can flash in a government officials face to show they are not mere folks looking for old stuff. Do I have that wrong?
Gosh, I remember "Diploma Mills" where folks could pay someone some money and get a diploma for anything you wanted. All printed up nice and fancy.
I'm sure someone could "Certify" that (whomever) is a bonafied archie with lots of letters after their name according to the Institute of Highest Knowledge found on the Planet Earth. Then you too can be an archie. (Not sold in stores, limited time only)

You asked: "...are you talking about the new Indiana Jones movie about the glass head?..." Yes, that one and the glass head is referred to as a crystal skull. I also will wait for it to be shown on TV as for me the Indiana Jones franchise is not my cup of tea. After "Raiders Of The Lost Ark" the sequels went downhill faster than a downhill racer!

Now, archaeologists are NOT our enemies, in general. Some individuals have gotten the upper hand here in America but we are not really suffering as we can detect almost anywhere we want without being restricted in any way by anyone or any organization, government or private. There are certain areas that some detectorists would love to hunt in such as battlefields or certain parks but cannot do so. This is offset by the rest of the United States being available, of course mostly private properties.

We do need archaeologists to find the lost remnants of civilizations of the past. Our lives won't be changed by what they find but I'm grateful for their finds otherwise we would not be able to appreciate Egyptian arts, or Mayan, or Indian (NOT native Americans although they also), etc.

There are archaeologists that have had to bust their chops in colleges and universities to be able to be accepted by archaeological institutions and allowed to supervise digs in all parts of the world where they may be allowed by local governments. The archies we detectorists agree should be given a quick kick in the pants are those that see our harmless activity as an affront to their livelihood as if we were going to unearth some long-lost civilization with out hobby metal detectors. These individuals have gone plumb loco and no one recognizes that their outrageousness is not supported by common sense and logic.

Don't seek publicity next time you make a major find especially if it's connected to something they would find interest in such as a battlefield that's partly on private land and the archies won't know about it and come knocking to put you through the mill. There are ways and means to deal with these people but an education about what THEY do is a good beginning.

Silver Fox

 

[tradderran]

Now where can I get a leather jacket; fadorea and a bull whip

 

[Philvis]

I used to be an archaeologist, but now am in a different line of work due to the lack of money and stability in the archaeology field. I still consider myself an archaeologist...afterall, I figure if I am still paying for the degrees, I should be able to retain the label. I will be honest and say that a good chunk of archaeologists are egotists. As with any academic field there often tends to be a pissing contest amongst each other in regards to experience, who they studied under, etc. There also is the notion that if it is in the ground, no one but an archaeologist should be able to remove it. I was always the black sheep archaeologist because I had a different train of thought towards the field. Many archaeologist, like metal detectorists, can tend to be apprehensive towards the public. That is where I think people go wrong. Embrace the public and showcase what you do and get people interested in history. While Indiana Jones is more remniscent to the early days of archaeology, where it was mainly an adventure to find nice antiquities, it did tons to promote the field of archaeology.

I am a firm believer that history is there to be appreciated as well as learned from. People would be shocked to know that 95% or more of the artifacts recovered by archaeologist are in bags/boxes somewhere in storage, and will likely never be seen by the public. I am a metal detectorist (not very successful), and in no way will knock another metal detectorist because of what some consider to be irresponsible digging. As long as you aren't digging up burials, hunting on national historic sites, and things like that, I say, have at it. There are times when major concentrations of historic artifacts are discovered and I do think at that point, it may be of interest for an archaeologist to do a proper excavation because there may be some important data that can be recovered. Don't get me wrong though, a cache of silver or gold coins doesn't warrant an excavation in my book! haha!

I think as long as you respect the laws, don't destroy the land(i.e. fill in your holes), and use common sense, there is no reason to be looked down upon. The metal detectorists who frustrate me are the ones who get there before me. Just remember that while you may have some archaeologists who look down upon you, the majority of the public is fascinated by what you do. Folks at my work who know that I detect joke and ask me if I wear knee high socks on the beach with huge headphones and lots of sunblock. That's probably the worst image most people have. Just be responsible and archaeologists will have no reason to complain. As long as archaeology remains an academic field, there will always be snooty, holier than though archaeologists. That won't change anytime soon. Good hunting my friends and stop getting to the sites before me so I can find more than a 1994 penny!

 

[Silver Fox]

Good, common sense words, Philvis. We all have benefitted from serious archaeological work and there are certain areas where metal detecting would definitely not be welcomed. Areas such as Jamestown, Viking settlements, New England colonial sites, Southwest native sites, etc. From such sites we do learn some meaningful history. But as you pointed out, and exemplified in the ending scene of "RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK," most of the recovered artifacts end up in museum storage rooms and other storage rooms that the public will never see. And the reality if that no more artifacts are needed to be collected since there is more stored than there will ever be sufficient archaeologists to study them.

I enjoy seeing TV documentaries of archaeological work being done in the jungles of Central and South America, in Egypt, in the Mediterranean area in general and we know that metal detectorists are never going to be found in these areas so they are "safe" from us coil swingers.

Of course, as I've mentioned, here in America is where the problems lie as there's a fine line between Civil War artifacts on private property and Federal lands. But when a person finds dinosaur bones on their property and even they don't have the right to the bones because archaeologists have declared that only they have the right to those bones, that's where archies earn the disrespect not only from detectorists for the archie's overzealouness, but from the rightful owners who discovered whatever.

We know that more and more of these so-called "hallowed" grounds (Civil War as an example) are giving way to shopping malls, or they've been abandoned for whatever reason, but let some poor schmuck get caught in the woods doing a little digging and not only the government officials jump in on the person's case but we get the added attraction of the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 being brought down on those caught.

Proper research by detectorists will help keep them away from the wrath of archies and, whenever possible, volunteer to help archies if they're in an area near you. We all know that just swinging a coil keeps us happy since not every hunt results in goodies.

However, someone please teach that young upstart Josh Bernstein that hieroglyphs should not be called hieroglyphics as hieroglyphics is the study of hieroglyphs! Nothing worse than hearing an alleged highly educated archaeologist sound as if he didn't finish college!

Silver Fox