PROBLEMS IN TOWN

[Is this thing on?]

Talk about an aggravating week! I went through the proper channels recently to verify that it was legal to metal detect at local parks in my town. Here is what transpired: (He wanted to know what MD'ing involved)

"Hi Brandon,

Thank you for the reply. When I detect a target, I usually use a spade to open up a small flap in the ground, which is usually a couple inches across. When I am done, the flap is closed, and virtually no evidence is left that I was even there. In keeping with good standing with other professional treasure hunters, I also take any and all trash that is recovered (Both in the ground and above it), so we like to think that we kind of do a service to the community .

I also spoke with Sgt. Thompson, of the Oneida Police Department, so I can assure you that I would not be breaking any local laws or ordinances in regards to the hobby.

Thanks for writing back!

Sincerely,

Chris"

REPLY:

"Chris,



As you will see in the email threads below, I’ve discussed your inquiry with the proper channels.



The City of Oneida does not have a permit application for metal detecting and the Mayor stated:



“No permits and no intention to permit people to dig randomly on city property.”



Therefore it is not permissible to do metal detecting in or on City Parks and/or on City Property.



If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.



Thanks,

Brandon "

Can you believe this CRAP??!! There is no local law that prohibits metal detecting on PUBLIC PROPERTY (The peoples property), but the Mayor says that I don't have permission? Who owns the park? The Mayor, or the tax payers? I have a good mind to detect there anyway. The reason why I went through this in the first place was because I had heard through the grape vine that a permit was required. Coupled with that, and the fact that some folks on this board have run into similar problems, I thought that I would verify whether or not a permit was needed.

Regardless of the consequences, I will detect anyway. If ticketed, I will fight this in court tooth and nail. Especially considering that other detectorists have detected here for years. I guess this is what I get for doing the "right thing".

 

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[jeff of pa]

1st. Mistake asking for perrmission.

If anything you should have only asked if the Public can use the park.

2nd. mistake "spade' brings up images of this



I hope this isn't what your using.

If you are, I'm glad you don't live near me :P

Intresting Reply on the

Because we don't have a permit you can't.

Do they Have Permits for Playing ball ?

Jogging ?

 

[jeff of pa]

I stand corrected.

Your first Mistake was going over the Sgt.'s head when you already
had a "GO"

yes you can do it if there is no law,

But be assured, now that you opened the can of Worms.

When they see you & The sgt. can't arrest you,
They will Start a law.

 

[gametalman52]

I would go metal detecting. Show me the law!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey Is-this-thing-on: Jeff is right, you do NOT ask for permission to detect public parks, unless they are specifically off-limits, for some reason, to begin with (like, if it was posted "no metal detecting" or something like that). Because, for you to have asked, merely implies that something is wrong with you, or your hobby, that you had to ask to begin with. You should think of yourself as no different than any other park user. I mean, would you "ask permission" to fly a kite there? permission to bird-watch? etc....

If you had satisfied yourself that there was nothing prohibiting metal detecting (which is different than asking "permission"), then you should have stopped there, and just gone and done it. The minute you mention "digging" of ANY sort (I don't care how minor or how shallow), what do you THINK their reaction was going to be? And trust me, anyone telling you "no" like that, probably would never have ever given it a second thought, or have even paid attention to you, if they'd passed you by. But now that you've asked, guess what's going to happen if they see you, or another md'r out somewhere? They're going to think "aha, there's one of THEM" and start booting people.

Yes, it's a necessary evil that we have to dig. There's no getting around that. No city in the USA is going to allow that (except perhaps on beaches). But the reality is, if you are discreet, don't stick out like a sore thumb, and go at low/no traffic times, odds are, no one cares. Like you yourself acknowledge, there would be no visible evidence left, so why do you need to ask?

Personally, I don't even ask at all, at any public park. As long as it's not an obvious historical monument, and as long as it's not posted "no metal detecting", then I will not consider myself any different than any other park user, unless told otherwise. Ie.: kind of like nose-picking, just be discreet, and no one will notice. But if you ask someone "can I pick my nose?" they're going to tell you "no".

 

[Is this thing on?]

Hi Tom,

I appreciate your input! I wasn't really asking for "permission", so to speak. Since there was no law prohibiting metal detecting, I would not think that permission would be required (That was established by my conversation with the police officer). However, I have heard from local folks that a permit was required to detect in the city. So, my initial question to Brandon, who is the head of the Parks and Recreation Department, was whether or not a permit was required for metal detecting, and if so, how would I acquire one. Of course, this opened up a whole can of worms that really shouldn't have opened.

Just keep in mind that "IF" a permit is required to hunt a certain location, then a detectorist is obligated to obtain one. I am still aggravated that such a benign question had turned into such a quagmire of bureaucracy and rejection. I had already determined that I had a "LEGAL" right to detect in the city, I just needed to know whether or not a permit was required.

Since I do possess a legal right to detect, I will do so. If I could do this all over again, I would have certainly followed your course of action. Never again...

Chris

 

[jeff of pa]

Hi Tom,

I appreciate your input! I wasn't really asking for "permission", so to speak. Since there was no law prohibiting metal detecting, I would not think that permission would be required (That was established by my conversation with the police officer). However, I have heard from local folks that a permit was required to detect in the city. So, my initial question to Brandon, who is the head of the Parks and Recreation Department, was whether or not a permit was required for metal detecting, and if so, how would I acquire one. Of course, this opened up a whole can of worms that really shouldn't have opened.

Just keep in mind that "IF" a permit is required to hunt a certain location, then a detectorist is obligated to obtain one. I am still aggravated that such a benign question had turned into such a quagmire of bureaucracy and rejection. I had already determined that I had a "LEGAL" right to detect in the city, I just needed to know whether or not a permit was required.

Since I do possess a legal right to detect, I will do so. If I could do this all over again, I would have certainly followed your course of action. Never again...

Chris

I was wondering :P

20/20 Hindsight, I guess you should have just asked the sgt.
If a permit was needed.

oh well, Shows you what good Mayors are

 

[Born2Dtect]

Getting permission is great if you need it. Most parks have rules posted, if detecting is not banned and there are no rules applying to digging, I would go. If you check a towns government web page they will usually list parks, with a commissioner. This is the guy to ask about a permit. The only time I get a "NO" from someone is usually a person with a personal opinion or who is too lazy to find out. If a police seargent says no laws exist I would have been there the next day.

Ed D.

 

[BestAntiquities]

Jeff covered it perfectly. Just do some behind the scenes checking to see if it's in the books illegal. If not all you have to worry about is being charged with public property vandalism. This usually doesn't happen if you retrieve finds (never ever use the word "dig") with a screw driver or small whatever.

In some areas of the U.S. it's illegal to be found with a detector on (or with) your person. That's true on most non-detecting state owned lands. It doesn't matter if you're using your detector for a walking stick they'll still bust you.

We're losing hunting territory every day and it isn't going to get better. Follow Jeff's suggestions (and the others) and be cool.
PM

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I know this will sound reckless to some people, but I will not even inquire if a permit is required. Because, as you found out, it just gets interpretted as a form of requesting permission.

Heck, I bet that across the whole united states, there may be nothing but a handful of cities that actually have such a permit thing. But the minute one city or one county does it, the magic internet information age blasts isolated incidents across the united states. Then everyone in their living room thinks: "hmm, maybe I should inquire if my city or county requires this too? Guess I better check!" So it's almost as if it was better not to have thought of such things, lest they merely become a self-fulfilling prophesy Like picking your nose: no one cares, till you ask.

I figure if there is a permit required, then a city worker or cop is welcome to stop me and inform me of this. No harm done. If it wasn't posted, you'll get "informed". So what?

 

[deepskyal]

In all my years, I have only seen one sign that specifically stated "Metal Detecting Prohibited". It was posted along with other rules and regulations of the site.

My school of thought...if they can state that in one sign, they can post it in others if they don't specifically want you doing something.

Most parks I've been to have some sort of signs specifically pointing to some prohibited activities, ie: no dogs, no kite flying (yes, Ive actually seen that), no alcoholic beverages, no disturbing the sand dunes...etc. You get my drift.
One park said no golfing but I still saw a couple regulars there practicing there form under the eyes of the park personnel without a peep being said to them. And the sand dunes? Full of poison ivy....wouldn't detect them anyhow.

I'll read those signs when posted and if my activity is not barred...I'll happily do my thing.

Al

 

[Montana Jim]

Are you in Onieda, NY?