Pulse induction detector alternatives to Minelab GPX series?

[GreyGhost]

I've been detecting for about a year and a half in Arizona with my Gold Bug Pro. I've been hitting some areas sometimes weekly that are known gold producers (Las Guijas, Greaterville) and still haven't had any luck finding nuggets.
Recently I upgraded to the 10" DD coil for my GBP to try and get a little more depth out of my detector. The areas I detect have alluvial gold and the miners that have worked these areas dug down into the gravel and bedrock for the nuggets. The gold out here is deep and naturally the areas that are gold bearing are extremely mineralized; white floater quartz everywhere, dark red soil and hot rocks at every step. I've been detecting an area recently with magnetite boulders the size of basketballs! Swing the GBP near one of those and the thing goes nuts.
I don't feel I'm getting enough depth out of my VLF detector or enough ground balancing or discrimination for these extremely mineralized areas. My chances of finding surface nuggets within the first few inches of over burden that my GBP can sniff through just doesn't seem to be cutting it. My GBP feels like a toy out here, these areas have already been hit for years by other guys with VLF detectors so anything within the first few inches of ground is long gone.
So I'd like to upgrade to a pulse induction detector. However a $4-5$k Minelab GPX just isn't in my budget. Are there any viable PI alternatives to the GPX series that might be a little less expensive?
Thanks

 

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[63bkpkr]

Well 2com it is not wise for even myself to vaporize/pulverize PO or PI as the airborne particles do a number on anyone even old non allergic me. Gets in your eyes as well. So your all natural spray is the correct item to use but then the dead vines need to be removed and for some folks even the dead ones still cause them fits.............63bkpkr

As far as Texas goes, this is not my last stop as I still require mountains for my retirement years!!!

 

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[IMPDLN]

Nothing wrong with the 2100. They are fine machines. I have one that gets regular use and still finds gold. However I am not convinced that getting a PI unit will necessarily get you into gold if not finding it with the GB. The GB is a fabulous VLF and finding gold ain't easy. We use GB SE and find gold in nasty mineralization with plenty of rocks full of iron that drive the units nuts. In my opinion you might need to modify your tactics. Have you been out with any experienced detectorists? I suggest trying to hook up with somebody that might be able to help you refine your tactics. Even using a PI unit, I still find most of my gold shallow and within reach of the GB. Concentrate your efforts in washes or on benches with exposed or at least shallow bedrock. Nobody ever gets it all. Dennis

 

[GreyGhost]

Nothing wrong with the 2100. They are fine machines. I have one that gets regular use and still finds gold. However I am not convinced that getting a PI unit will necessarily get you into gold if not finding it with the GB. The GB is a fabulous VLF and finding gold ain't easy. We use GB SE and find gold in nasty mineralization with plenty of rocks full of iron that drive the units nuts. In my opinion you might need to modify your tactics. Have you been out with any experienced detectorists? I suggest trying to hook up with somebody that might be able to help you refine your tactics. Even using a PI unit, I still find most of my gold shallow and within reach of the GB. Concentrate your efforts in washes or on benches with exposed or at least shallow bedrock. Nobody ever gets it all. Dennis

That's some sound advice. I've been metal detecting for about 5 years now, the last year and a half focusing on gold detecting with my GBP. I've never been out with an experienced gold hunter, just been kind of teaching myself along the way. I haven't given up on my VLF detector yet, I think I just need to really slow down with it and focus on the tones in the magnetite field I've been detecting.
I always thought washes were supposed to be good to detect but some of the information I've been reading suggests they're newer erosive events in the landscape, created by flash flooding, and that often the gold can lay up above them or outside them entirely in the much older alluvial benches, which are the bottoms of even older streams.

 

[IMPDLN]

No doubt there is gold found in alluvial deposits, however think about how heavy gold is and gravity. What does water do during a flash flood? It flows down hill into drainages. The steeper the hill or drainage the faster it flows. The faster water flows the more force it has. When you have enough force water will move gold, however while lighter materials go with the flow fairly fast, gold will slowly tumble along.

Gold is very dense for it's size. It really takes an incredible amount of water force to get it moving. The heavier the piece of gold the more force required to get it moving. Water that is moving tennis ball sized rock might only move fine gold. Water that is moving bowling ball sized rocks might get pickers moving. Water that is moving boulders the size of the hood on your vehicle will get small to medium sized nuggets moving. It takes flow that moves boulders the size of your car to move large nuggets say 1oz or more in size.

Be advised these are just approximations to draw a picture in your mind of a possible scenario. Of course gradient, gravity and friction all play a role in this as well. Think of a wash as being like a sluice box. If it's too steep or the flow to fast gold will wash right through. It there was no bottom to a sluice you would never capture any gold. Gold has a tendency to concentrate it's self in places because of a few factors. The bedrock or sometimes false bedrock is the bottom of the sluice in a natural setting. The nooks and crevices are the riffles which trap the gold. Therefore your best chances of finding a nugget metal detecting is where gold will concentrate, hence bedrock in washes as it is the lowest point for concentration. Simple physics and gravity make everything flow down slope. What you need to find is the natural sluices or concentration points that can stop the gold in it's path.

From another angle, look at any hillside and they have a at least a few washes. Anything flowing down a hill will eventually end up in a wash. So in more ways then one, a wash is a concentration point. I say narrow your search and increase your chances. I myself have yet to find any nuggets on a hill side. All the nuggets I have found have been on bedrock in washes or just slightly above the current stream bed. The only benches that have produced for me myself have been just out of the current stream bed, like within 6-8 vertical feet of current high water areas.

Magnetite/black sand is definitely an issue with any VLF and Az. has no shortage of it. By now you certainly can distinguish between a valid target and mineralization. With the GB pro you can turn down the sensitivity without missing targets. You might loose a little depth but it can better handle the mineralization if you run with a little less sensitivity. If you are using the stock 5 inch round coil, you really have to slow down. It can be really sensitive to changes in the ground over a short distance. If you haven't invested in the 5''x10'' elliptical coil yet, I highly recommend you think about that as a worth while investment. With that coil you can cover more ground per coil sweep and the toe is every bit as sensitive as the 5'' round. I have the GB non pro version and paid for it the 4th time out with a nice 1/4 ounce chunk. I only use mine part time and for specific reasons, since I do have the 2100 as my primary machine.

I'm not saying you can't find nuggets out of a wash, but you need to find gold 1st and foremost. I suggest you will better your chances if you focus on possible locations of concentration. Number 1 is bedrock. it helps if the gradient of the area is shallow like the slope of a properly set up sluice. Water tends to take the path of least resistance and so does gold. I hope some of this info will help you narrow your search. Dennis

 

[IMPDLN]

Just another note. I just reread your original post and see you have the larger coil. You mentioned discrimination......don't use that looking for nuggets. Always run in all metal mode as this will allow more depth penetration and sensitivity to small pieces of metal. Dennis

 

[GreyGhost]

No doubt there is gold found in alluvial deposits, however think about how heavy gold is and gravity. What does water do during a flash flood? It flows down hill into drainages. The steeper the hill or drainage the faster it flows. The faster water flows the more force it has. When you have enough force water will move gold, however while lighter materials go with the flow fairly fast, gold will slowly tumble along. Gold is very dense for it's size. It really takes an incredible amount of water force to get it moving. The heavier the piece of gold the more force required to get it moving. Water that is moving tennis ball sized rock might only move fine gold. Water that is moving bowling ball sized rocks might get pickers moving. Water that is moving boulders the size of the hood on your vehicle will get small to medium sized nuggets moving. It takes flow that moves boulders the size of your car to move large nuggets say 1oz or more in size. Be advised these are just approximations to draw a picture in your mind of a possible scenario. Of course gradient, gravity and friction all play a role in this as well. Think of a wash as being like a sluice box. If it's too steep or the flow to fast gold will wash right through. It there was no bottom to a sluice you would never capture any gold. Gold has a tendency to concentrate it's self in places because of a few factors. The bedrock or sometimes false bedrock is the bottom of the sluice in a natural setting. The nooks and crevices are the riffles which trap the gold. Therefore your best chances of finding a nugget metal detecting is where gold will concentrate, hence bedrock in washes as it is the lowest point for concentration. Simple physics and gravity make everything flow down slope. What you need to find is the natural sluices or concentration points that can stop the gold in it's path. From another angle, look at any hillside and they have a at least a few washes. Anything flowing down a hill will eventually end up in a wash. So in more ways then one, a wash is a concentration point. I say narrow your search and increase your chances. I myself have yet to find any nuggets on a hill side. All the nuggets I have found have been on bedrock in washes or just slightly above the current stream bed. The only benches that have produced for me myself have been just out of the current stream bed, like within 6-8 vertical feet of current high water areas. Magnetite/black sand is definitely an issue with any VLF and Az. has no shortage of it. By now you certainly can distinguish between a valid target and mineralization. With the GB pro you can turn down the sensitivity without missing targets. You might loose a little depth but it can better handle the mineralization if you run with a little less sensitivity. If you are using the stock 5 inch round coil, you really have to slow down. It can be really sensitive to changes in the ground over a short distance. If you haven't invested in the 5''x10'' elliptical coil yet, I highly recommend you think about that as a worth while investment. With that coil you can cover more ground per coil sweep and the toe is every bit as sensitive as the 5'' round. I have the GB non pro version and paid for it the 4th time out with a nice 1/4 ounce chunk. I only use mine part time and for specific reasons, since I do have the 2100 as my primary machine. I'm not saying you can't find nuggets out of a wash, but you need to find gold 1st and foremost. I suggest you will better your chances if you focus on possible locations of concentration. Number 1 is bedrock. it helps if the gradient of the area is shallow like the slope of a properly set up sluice. Water tends to take the path of least resistance and so does gold. I hope some of this info will help you narrow your search. Dennis

There's a large wash in the area I've been detecting with exposed bedrock. I'll narrow in on that area. There's more than just black sand in this area... there's magnetite boulders so it makes things tricky. Maybe I'll post a pic. Its unlike anywhere I've ever seen in the desert and I've been in Arizona for 30 years.
I might have the time to hit it today for a few hours. Wish me luck!

 

[IMPDLN]

Magnetite boulders are common in Az. I have tons of rock in my area that are at least 50% magnetic and yes even a PI will sound off on lots of them. My pick with 3 super magnets will jump out of my hand if I get it too close as well. Some of the bedrock is even made up of this stuff and almost impossible to metal detect on or near it. Just part of the game to learn how to deal with heavy mineralization.

I hope you did better than I did today. I kind of lost most of my days off this week due to work events. Still managed some time out, just didn't manage any gold. Dennis

 

[Notsuredomus]

I currently have a touch of Poison Oak myself lol. I got it prospecting a New 49er Claim K-25AA. I am lucky. I don't get it to bad and I know the warning signs and force myself not to scratch until I can clean the infected area. Then put some sterile gauze over it. A friend of mine is so allergic to it the slightest brush upon a leaf or branch and he will be a giant oozing sore from head to toe. Remember to wash the affected area with a soap or detergent meant to dissolve grease and oil and wash in as Cold a water as possible. Hot water causes your skins pores to open allowing a larger quantity of the oils to be absorbed. Sometimes exposure can't be helped. Dead vines, branches and leaves on the ground that don't even resemble poison oak anymore can still contain the oils needed to ruin your weekend.

 

[IDdesertman]

Lots of guys out there hammering loads of gold with the old SD & GP series Minelabs. If you are in gold country, you can probably keep your eyes open and find one within your budget.

 

[Hard Prospector]

I currently have a touch of Poison Oak myself lol. I got it prospecting a New 49er Claim K-25AA. I am lucky. I don't get it to bad and I know the warning signs and force myself not to scratch until I can clean the infected area. Then put some sterile gauze over it. A friend of mine is so allergic to it the slightest brush upon a leaf or branch and he will be a giant oozing sore from head to toe. Remember to wash the affected area with a soap or detergent meant to dissolve grease and oil and wash in as Cold a water as possible. Hot water causes your skins pores to open allowing a larger quantity of the oils to be absorbed. Sometimes exposure can't be helped. Dead vines, branches and leaves on the ground that don't even resemble poison oak anymore can still contain the oils needed to ruin your weekend.

The key to removing the oils is to soap up with concentrated dish washing liquid BEFORE any water contact.. If water hits the skin first the soap can't penetrate and lift out the oils nearly as well. When I get home from a day in the bush I strip down in the garage, grabbing the bottle of dish soap on my way to the shower. That nasty stuff chews me up but so long as I stick to this routine I never break out.

 

[AzViper]

There's a large wash in the area I've been detecting with exposed bedrock. I'll narrow in on that area. There's more than just black sand in this area... there's magnetite boulders so it makes things tricky. Maybe I'll post a pic. Its unlike anywhere I've ever seen in the desert and I've been in Arizona for 30 years.
I might have the time to hit it today for a few hours. Wish me luck!

Hi Chris,

I just picked up my new coil but I am really pissed as I will not be able to get out for a while. I just got back to feeling like I could go out again after having shoulder replacement surgery 2.5 months ago and Friday I learned I had broken the Patella bone (Kneecap) in my surgically replaced left knee. I had fallen while out in Greaterville and sheared off the kneecap internally. From what I am told and hoping its a quick turn around as its not having the entire joint replaced.

 

[liftloop]

lucky bum's
wish I could detect old rive bed for gold nuggets
all we have up here are old Ox burrow's
from babe the blue Ox's

 

[EagleDown]

The key to removing the oils is to soap up with concentrated dish washing liquid BEFORE any water contact.. If water hits the skin first the soap can't penetrate and lift out the oils nearly as well. When I get home from a day in the bush I strip down in the garage, grabbing the bottle of dish soap on my way to the shower. That nasty stuff chews me up but so long as I stick to this routine I never break out.

I'm in the process of growing an herb that I've given to many people to nuetralize the poison from spider and scorpion stings. Generally, after they've gone to a MD and found that all the doctor can do is give them a shot of antibiotics. It never seems to help, as two or three days later, the swelling is more pronounced and painful. By using this common herb as a poltuce, usually within 24 hours, the pain and swelling is gone.

I've never had the opportunity to try it with PO or PI, as I'm immune to both. But, if you would like to try it, go into Wikipedia and type in "Plantain". (The herb, not the bananna) (lol) There is a photo of what the plant looks like. I find it growing wild in city parks and the woods. The leaves and roots are natural antibiotics also.

I think that if you used a hand operated juicer, (heat destroys herbal enzymes) and used the juice on the affected area, it 'might' nuetralize the PO/PI. Personally, I think it would be worth a try.

Sorry, after checking, I found that Plantain just takes you to the bananna. Try this instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_lanceolata

Another link with even more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago

Eagle

 

[Lanny in AB]

Grey Ghost,

I think you've been given some great advice about a Pulse machine. If you take your time and buy a good used PI (Minelab or otherwise), you can get one for a decent price. If you buy a Minelab, you know it will have the circuitry to ground balance to counteract the minerals you'll encounter when you're out hunting nuggets.

I still have my 2100, and I found a lot of nuggets with it. I've hunted with the 3500, the one Steve suggested, and it's a great machine too.

Take your time, look around to get a good one, and buy a used Minelab PI. They've found lots of gold, and they'll find gold for you with the added bonus that they'll ignore far more hot rocks and ground mineralization than a VLF will.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[pasttom]

In case there are noobs lurking or anyone just doesn't know... PO is a very contagious oil that can VERY easily be spread by secondary contact. If you have a dog or touch contaminated clothing before its washed look out! Anyone touching them may as well be touching the leaves. Also for heaven sake don't pee or scratch if its on your hands! You DON'T want to go there!

 

[GreyGhost]

Lots of guys out there hammering loads of gold with the old SD & GP series Minelabs. If you are in gold country, you can probably keep your eyes open and find one within your budget.

I'm kind of interested in an SD but can't find one on eBay for less than $1,000. I've heard they can be had for cheaper tho.

 

[GreyGhost]

Hi Chris, I just picked up my new coil but I am really pissed as I will not be able to get out for a while. I just got back to feeling like I could go out again after having shoulder replacement surgery 2.5 months ago and Friday I learned I had broken the Patella bone (Kneecap) in my surgically replaced left knee. I had fallen while out in Greaterville and sheared off the kneecap internally. From what I am told and hoping its a quick turn around as its not having the entire joint replaced. <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=968955"/>

Yep that's the setup I have now. Real bummer about your knee. I sent you a PM to see if you were going to Greaterville about two Saturdays ago. I'll be out this Friday in the Guijas I think. Have a good one.

Grey Ghost, I think you've been given some great advice about a Pulse machine. If you take your time and buy a good used PI (Minelab or otherwise), you can get one for a decent price. If you buy a Minelab, you know it will have the circuitry to ground balance to counteract the minerals you'll encounter when you're out hunting nuggets. I still have my 2100, and I found a lot of nuggets with it. I've hunted with the 3500, the one Steve suggested, and it's a great machine too. Take your time, look around to get a good one, and buy a used Minelab PI. They've found lots of gold, and they'll find gold for you with the added bonus that they'll ignore far more hot rocks and ground mineralization than a VLF will. All the best, Lanny

Yep I'd like to find an SD (maybe spend my tax return on one) or a GP. Just gotta keep hunting eBay for deals.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Yep that's the setup I have now. Real bummer about your knee. I sent you a PM to see if you were going to Greaterville about two Saturdays ago. I'll be out this Friday in the Guijas I think. Have a good one.

Yep I'd like to find an SD (maybe spend my tax return on one) or a GP. Just gotta keep hunting eBay for deals.

A thousand bucks for a good one is a good deal. I'm not sure you'll find one that's worth having for less than that, unless you get very lucky and find someone that's desperate to sell for some reason.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[IMPDLN]

Be advised buyer beware on E-bay. Lots of Minelab scams have been known to surface there. I suggest watching the classified adds on the many gold forums. They do come up for sale from prospectors and you are more likely to get a gently used unit at a fare price......which by the way $1000 isn't bad depending on model and what they are including with it like extra coils, batteries, headphones and such. Also try checking with Minelab dealers. They get good used units on trade in all the time. Arizona has 4 gold forums and 3 of them are ran by Minelab dealers which all take in trades when guys upgrade. Dennis

 

[Lanny in AB]

Be advised buyer beware on E-bay. Lots of Minelab scams have been known to surface there. I suggest watching the classified adds on the many gold forums. They do come up for sale from prospectors and you are more likely to get a gently used unit at a fare price......which by the way $1000 isn't bad depending on model and what they are including with it like extra coils, batteries, headphones and such. Also try checking with Minelab dealers. They get good used units on trade in all the time. Arizona has 4 gold forums and 3 of them are ran by Minelab dealers which all take in trades when guys upgrade. Dennis

The gold forum classifieds are great places to look. I agree wholeheartedly with Dennis on this one, and the tip about the Minelab dealers is one you can take to the bank as well.

All the best,

Lanny