Question about new machines

[XLV]

Is there a machine ...don't even think of using LRL in the answer ....that can determine say 10 kilo target at 6 feet deep in mild soil accurately the type of metal say 18k gold , lead , Fe etc ....if the answer is no ok just state no such machine ....if there is a machine could you tell me the model and price ...Thank You

 

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[TheGreenBoy]

No.
- You can accurately detect the said target wihout a problem using a PI, price range 300 - 2000 EUR or by using ERT (price....10.000 - 20.000EUR).
- You may determin either it is ferrous (Ferromagnetic) or not, by using a better PI with disc. (price 1000 - 3000 EUR) if lucky, i think it would be possible with a pro. PI, i believe the said target is too small for magnetometer but who knows....
- in my experience, you cannot determine the type of diamagnetic metal, the VDI from a top class VLFs is usually inconclusive at that depth, maybe with Nokta Invenio, you shuld ask Nokta for that. The ERT might give you some clue about target resistance if you do the array around the target but the resulution at such small target would be too low to determine the metal.

Assuming the 10Kg target is thought as a lump of metal rather than a thin or plate straching over a larger area.

 

[docweiser]

Not yet

 

[Jason in Enid]

no, no, no. no such machine

 

[XLV]

Thanks for the great info and answers i guess a core drill is the best machine still after you find the exact spot with a big coil PI

 

[Terry Soloman]

Yes. A Minelab GPZ 7000 Minelab GPZ 7000 Metal Detector | Fort Bedford Metal Detectors equipped with a Coiltek 40" x 20" Coil

 

[XLV]

So the beach sweeper thinks his GPZ 7000 with that small coil could do the job ...I believe that it could find the target ....Ive never seen a set-up like that in use ....So that rig can tell me if its iron or gold am guessing since i never used one or seen one used ....Terry i find that hard to believe but since its coming from Gossan Hat guy i'll take your word for it

 

[XLV]

Thanks Terry for your answer so i need a GPZ to find my pot of gold

 

[Terry Soloman]

The Coiltek "Mothership" Coil is for the GPX machines unfortunately. But the 5000 could probably do the job. The GPZ machine is a very sophisticated pulse induction machine, sending a lot of power to the coil. If you use a larger drag coil, you can get deeper.

 

[XLV]

Thegreenboy i took a quick look at that Nokta Invenio you mentioned ...do you really think this machine is a improvement what i read it didn't mention GPR Or is it just a Multi freq with a screen and larger coil ...aka ctx 3030 with a screen and large coil ... GPZ has many reviews and finds maybe not at great depths ( because they are only using what 14" coil ) it uses both VLF and PI tech .... do you think Minelab is just hype BS ? ...Where am at there no ads of minelab for deep treasure ...its all scam ads for LRL or real ads that are clone GPR

 

[Terry Soloman]

Minelab is the real deal.

 

[XLV]

The man that wears the golden hats i know Terry your the proof many times over and thousands of hunters in aussie land ....But Nokta the ones that hype there T.V detector and in today cellphone crazy phony world that what sells ...All the years here its either LRL or Big coil machines and nothing found and hunters blame there equipment ...Well they don't use minelab may be that there problem ,,,I want to give the other companies a chance to prove there machine better ...May be docweiser will let you one day test one of his deep machines Terry ...For now i stick to any machine that locates the target then drill the spot that 100% accurate ...A i know minelab makes the best P.I. machine to do the job ...

 

[XLV]

Terry i looked at Nokta invenio on there web site a few minutes ago ..The machine looks real good might be great on a beach in Florida .....But i would bet in half the places i go hunting this machine would be worthless ....and a minelab would shine ....i could be wrong ....Lets see active volcano ground covered with green slim , black sand beach , salt water , gossan areas , red rivers , 10% of the rocks attract to a magnet , black sand upland , areas with nothing but red sand stone , hot rocks etc ...this not Iowa .....and they mention its so powerful don't try it in your back yard ....why EMT or the % of black sand under that big coil ...what ive seen with big coils + 15 " on VLF machines the soil better be close to neutral ...even with 3 khz and a 15" coil you can have big trouble .....for sure the hype will never mention all this and there video and the ones i seen on you tube to stupid i won't waste my time showing them ....what i see may be its good down to 3' feet but that not worth it here ....Nokta do a real test i dare you

 

[TheGreenBoy]

I do not know if Invenio is a single or multi frequency machine, but it is definitely a fool blood comon VLF, not GPR. The first HW difference is a motion tracking sensor to keep track of coil movements, a solution with good potential to bring the new game to the people - not just profesional market. What really makes all the difference is not just the detector HW, but the application of novel mathematical visualization machinery - algorithms that process old data in an entirely new fashion. This makes the visualization of target contures possible. This is, in my oppinion, the only major step forward we have seen in the last 20+ yeares in detector developement. Though this is not quite new in pro and military line, it is, what i hope, a beggining of new game changing era in a hobby line machines. What can be seen in pro. market is the use of this data processing on PI/GPR or similar sensor pairs, makeing the PI detector's discrimination capabilities similar to VLF's along with the visualized target.
One of my home made PIs is using high energetic pulses with enormous polarization power, fare beyond you might even remotely see in comercial machines, but the discrimination, due to lack of knowledge, was carried out in an old fashion manner common to digital PIs: the areas under discharge curves are integrated and compared, the "ferromagnetic target" curve lies entirely abowe the "zero target" curve and the "diamagnetic target" curve starts below it at the begining and than it goes entirely abowe it. The area between the part of diamagnetic curve belowe the zero curve is minute compared to the area abowe it. Hense the disc. problems where strong signal not much affected by ground is required, and the discrimination inferiority relative to VLFs, as we can read in here so many times (and is a matter of past).

Using this machine on a diamagnetic targets similar of what you have described, can finde it without a problem even at 3m deprh, maybe more, but the disctimination at saied 2m would return diamagnetic respose (proper) in perhaps 70% and report it as ferromagnetic one in the rest of 30%, in my oppinione this is not a reliable behaviour.

 

[XLV]

Thanks for the info Thegreenboy am sorry that am not smart enough to fully understand what you wrote in theory ....Am just Old and stupid all there show and tell videos are always shown in places that there no Power lines and level old farm land fields in places with normal soil ...Where am at there 125,000 volt lines all threw the mountains which are as very steep ....What i seen there machine really needs 2 people to operate ...I wish them luck but hope soon they send a machine to Terry so he can give it a try in a mining state of Nevada ...Then let him say what he likes better GPZ or Invenio.... before anyone spends $10k they better wait to hear great reviews

 

[XLV]

I will talk to my son about all this and i hope docweiser adds some thoughts about this too ....What i understand from what the greenboy wrote in a farm field in england this probably would be the best detector for the job ..

 

[TheGreenBoy]

EMI from HV lines and transformers are not usualy compatibile with sensitive equipmet, regardless the type of the detector. Most will work with severely diminished setings, but none will work really good.

 

[XLV]

Ok Nokta put the spin ...now i understand ...So in urban areas LRL and all the other devices we mention don't work ...Don't try in your own back yard ....its not that the machine powerful its the 770 volt line on corner where the transformer converts to 220 volts is its so powerful ...Joke i thought it was the sun spots or the orbs or it was because of the full moon ...So when i seen some guy in a urban area with a machine with a screen find treasure it was probably staged i noticed 220 volt lines go over and behind the site in think it was in Greece not in english the video ... So terry what you do in urban area brake out your 8"dd coil and put it on to much trash and EMI ...How about a beach with more trash then sand just a joke ...Good luck

 

[XLV]

Well at least i learn something today those LRL users weren't told that those so sophisticated devices they use don't work good in urban areas ....It was giving them false readings ...Funny thing 4 sites ranging from 30 to 50 feet deep holes dug were all within 100 feet or less to at least 220v .. 2 of the sites 770 volts .... Thanks again greenboy

 

[TheGreenBoy]

Hmm, i do not think LRLs work at all, but i do not wish to discuss this. Metal detectors work well in urban area most of the time- just not under HV lines....but most of the time some detectors will chatter more, some less. 230V @50 Hz will not pose a serious trouble if line is nearby, 230KV will.