Question on Creek hunting practices?

[DemonCatSpaceStar]

Hello,

I'm just sitting around because of cold temps watching youtube vids of all these Arrowhead hunters (like myself) & got me thinking, when you hunt what are the laws of creek walking in the state you live in?
I've heard in some states it's any waterway is public access (except from private land), then like mine you have to get permission from land owners even to access from the road, they own the land under the water.

Just a thought for conversation.

 

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[monsterrack]

There was a post on this once before you may check that out because there was a lot of talk on this subject. In Ms. all creeks are posted unless you can travel it in a motorized boat, but then the land owner still owns the bottom so if you get out of the boat you are trespassing.

 

[hvacker]

New Mexico considered any water way to be public ownership until recently. Wars are fought over water in the SW and many are still ready for war. Historically in the SW, water was survival and laws disallowed changing the course of a river.
More recently the State legislature changed the law because some land owner didn't like people fishing on "Their" creek.
For the most part there are a lot of free places still but the threat is always there.
Probably a data base of the different States would be helpful. There's a lot of confusion on this. I would not have known about NM law except the legislation was in the paper.

My understanding was a land owner can't disallow access to National Forrest land but that didn't stop one from not allow my buddy and me access. We told him we wanted to recover a deer but still "You guys get out of here" It also didn't seem to matter that we both had side arms. In truth there was no deer, we were meteorite hunting a known strewn field but didn't want to advertise that.

 

[GaRebel1861]

In Georgia, the land under the water in a creek belongs to the property owner. The water belongs to the state. You can legally hunt for fossils and artifacts if you have permission from the land owner. On navigable waters of a river it is unlawful to hunt / collect Native American artifacts but fossils are ok. That is my understanding of the laws here.

 

[mn9000]

Of course it'll vary a bit from state to state, but I think a generalized answer to your question that'll somewhat apply to more states than not is this: floating a navigable stream in kayak canoe etc is almost never considered a trespass. But the moment you step out of the boat and into the creek, you are on somebody's property. 50% of the creek bottom belongs to the property owner on your left, 50% belongs to the property owner on your right. Therefore if you're traveling on foot in low water or dried up creek beds, same rule probably applies 99% of the time. And what GaRebel said is important to remember-- on public land fossil hunting is almost always perfectly legal, arrowhead hunting is almost always illegal. It doesn't hurt to carry a couple fossils in a designated pocket in case you need to prove to someone that you're fossil hunting & not artifact hunting. On a side note-- I've recently found some exceptional coral & sponge fossils in a few dried up eastern Oklahoma creeks that have really peaked my interest in fossils again. They make great display pieces.

 

[tamrock]

I'd like to know why I never find artifacts in the creeks around where I live? ... Maybe it's because the creeks here are just a short distance from the mountains and what ever artifacts that do get washed in are quickly washed away in the spring runoff and pulverized by all the big rocks that are put in motion by the strong torrent water running down from the mountains? A new idea that's come to mind is looking in the many dry irrigation ditches. So far I've found some old bottles that are not terribly busted up. That gives me the idea that maybe an artifact could be found intact. These ditches are old and many were dug during the early settlement of Boulder county in around the last quarter of the 19th century. No one can see you hunting in them as they're as deep as 8 to 10 feet in places. They run with water only 4 months out of the year, so that gives me time to look around. Sometimes I'll spook a coyote out as they use these as pathways to get around and not be seen. I suspect the mountain lions that have been seen reported here in the suburbs also use the irrigation ditches as ways around everything so not to be seen. Couple summers ago folks said they heard a big cat screaming his call out in the open space and a bulldog was mysteriously killed and fish & game suspected the culprit was a mountain lion.

 

[NCPeaches]

As far as North Carolina is concerned I've researched a lot because I hunt exclusively in a creek, of which a good section of it is on my property. They have what is called riparian rights/law here. Nothing I've found relates to artifact hunting but instead gold panning or trout fishing. I think and I could be reading it wrong, if it's navigable you are ok as long as you are in the water but once you touch land you are trespassing unless you have permission. If it's small and shallow like the creek I hunt you can walk it as long as you are in the water or if it's posted you can walk the side not posted. You can collect anything and all you want if it's unposted. If it's a property line like my creek my line is in the center. Even though I didn't have to, I have asked permission of my neighbors to poke around in their section of the creek. If I go upstream past one of the neighbors I haven't asked yet because there are culvert pipes made into a sort of bridge we all cross to get to our homes that I and my son are the only ones who clean out the debris that keeps it from creating a sinkhole and nobody questions why we are there when we are. They don't want to mess with it lol. Now if you are on federal land like say Linville in my area or if it's national forests you can't or not supposed to hunt or pick up artifacts at all. Needless to say creek, stream and water laws are a bit murky here.

 

[dognose]

This topic comes up every now and then. As stated mn9000, the laws vary state to state.


I have a large creek flowing through my property and every few years someone wants to not only walk the creek but our property also using the Navigable Waterways laws of Indiana. I have read these many times due to this and more often than not, the walker slants them so they may walk anywhere on the property.


In Indiana property rights relative to Indiana waterways often are determined by whether the waterway is "navigable." Both common law and statutory law make distinctions founded upon whether a river, stream, embayment, or lake is navigable.

Read it NRC: Navigable Waterways Roster
Check the county to determine which are "navigable." NRC: Roster by County

 

[hvacker]

Y'all have heard "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse" If that's the case the Law should have better access.
When I travel I look up the gun laws for States I'll be going through. There are lists of all the States and how they consider concealed firearms. No matter though, as the Laws won't prevent from me from carrying. I'm not a gun nut, just cautious.
I think these Laws regarding trespass should be as easy to find unless the Authority doesn't want Laws to be known or they are as ignorant as we are. Probably the latter.

 

[monsterrack]

It comes down to this GET PREMISSION and you want have any problems. It is not ethical to sneak, trespass or any other way than the legal way and if you do trespass it makes it hard on everyone else that likes to collect anything. The laws are the law it is on us to know what is right or wrong, so do your home work and respect others.

 

[hvacker]

I always like the phrase in a Woody Guthrie song where he sings about coming upon a "No Trespassing" sign and goes on to sing "On the other side it didn't say nothing!" and "That sign was made for you and me"
Kind of like that to a point.

 

[hvacker]

It comes down to this GET PREMISSION and you want have any problems. It is not ethical to sneak, trespass or any other way than the legal way and if you do trespass it makes it hard on everyone else that likes to collect anything. The laws are the law it is on us to know what is right or wrong, so do your home work and respect others.

It interesting you said "It is not ethical to sneak, trespass or any other way than the legal way"I once had a book on the laws regarding squatters rights in different States. While States had their differences most stated a Squatter had to be blatant about squatting. No hiding. The Squatter had to be in plain sight and declare he was on his rightful land. Occupying the land in terms of time varied State to State (7-21 years if memory serves) before the title of ownership went to the Squatter.
Land ownership has a long history of legal battles.
I like the script: "I'm taking your land" "You can't, it's mine" "Where did you get it?" "From my father" "Where did he get it?" "He fought for it" "Well then, I'll fight you for it!"
Just a question on the assumed right of private property. After all you can't own the sly unless your a Nation. Now here come the drones. Can a land owner ban drones from "his " land? Hard to fence off the sky.

 

[NCPeaches]

Just something I've noticed in hunting in my creek for almost 4 years. Now to be clear I've lived here for going on 24 years. The only time I have seen anyone in my creek is this year a couple of teens, boy and girl wandered up a ditch on my property with their dog. It was ok to me if they were in the creek but as long as they didn't come up to my land but they did and I asked them to go back on the other side. But what I'm getting to is how much junk people throw in the creek that my son and I have put back out of it. Like these kids family took a tractor and pushed small trees over into one area that borders their side and I didn't know it until a few months later. We worked hard at it but pushed all those trees back over to their land. Then my sweet neighbor's deck got twisted off the back of her house by a straight line wind so her boy and grand boy tore it off and rebuilt, guess where the old one wound up? yep in the creek. Now that one is upstream and whatever is tossed in there usually makes it's way down to my area I call the cluster fluck and makes it even worse. And then there's the ones who drive across the bridge and throw beer bottles and drink bottles and anything else they have in their hands right into the creek. Oh and there's a piece of land that runs from my line up to past my neighbors that they tree harvested last year and I had to call the forestry service to have them inspect it because they were leaving all kinds of tree debris in the creek and that's against the law. But it's always a fight to keep it clear, nobody cares about it but me apparently. So when my son and I go to the upstream side of the bridge to inspect it for blockages these are some of the things that are causing problems with sink holes in it. Yeah I'll look for pottery and points while I'm in there but nobody on my road knows what's in there other than their trash and most times don't know I'm in there. I know it's not right in the eyes of some on here but I almost feel like what little I find from the other side of the bridge is payment for keeping the culvert pipes clear of limbs, plastic, wire, you name it. Also, when we're doing that and they drive over it and see us there they wave and go on, nobody stops because they don't want to help.
This is a pic I took today of the "cluster fluck" area behind my shop. There are some huge trees that fell and one broke off and fell in there and everything gets stuck there. This area I have found most of the stone stuff in and the Palmer in my avatar. The right side is my side, the left side is the tree harvest side.

 

[jamey]

yea,monsterrack is right .it pays to know where you are hunting.me and a friend was hunting on a creek that goes through his brothers property,i guess we went to far and ran into a fellow that the banjo's did not have anything on him,we told him the truth that we were hunting arrowheads,he said he thought we was after his sang,any way when he found out who we were we could follow the creek as long as we wanted.

 

[NCPeaches]

Yes it does pay to know where you are hunting and the only other creek I've walked in was the one on our college's property, I asked to look there and it was not a problem if I just walked it and didn't rearrange it. That campus is known for it's artifacts but all I found were flakes and a thick pottery shard. They plowed a large area to grow organic wheat on and I have permission there too but haven't had time.

 

[jamey]

that is it NCPeaches,just let everyone know that you like artifacts,at work.school.church..... you will be able to find spots everywhere,no need to sneak around about it.