questions about the Lost Dutchman

[rebel003]

Gents,
I not new to gold mining but I am new to treasure hunting per say. I grown up knowing of the legend and the show has intrigued me, Hopefully I can gain some knowledge.
I have a couple questions concerning Mr. Waltz and the gold he had. Does anyone know what type of gold he brought back to town? Nuggets or gold ore? And about how much was said to have been recovered by Mr. Waltz? How many years was Mr. Waltz bring this gold back to town?
My reasons for asking are:
First, if the mine is a load mine then the ore would have to be transported to a smelting plant to extract the gold before he could spend it around town. This would require wagons to transport not just a couple of pack mules, defiantly not carrying it by hand on mountain trails.
Second, is you then could gauge the approximate the amount of tailing that would be left at the mine site. Also how much ore could one man mine by hand over that time frame?
Third, if the gold were nuggets then most likely this was a placer gold find. Which would be much easier to recover pack out and leaving little or no signs of tailing behind for someone to discover.

 

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[Azquester]

Gents,
I not new to gold mining but I am new to treasure hunting per say. I grown up knowing of the legend and the show has intrigued me, Hopefully I can gain some knowledge.
I have a couple questions concerning Mr. Waltz and the gold he had. Does anyone know what type of gold he brought back to town? Nuggets or gold ore? And about how much was said to have been recovered by Mr. Waltz? How many years was Mr. Waltz bring this gold back to town?
My reasons for asking are:
First, if the mine is a load mine then the ore would have to be transported to a smelting plant to extract the gold before he could spend it around town. This would require wagons to transport not just a couple of pack mules, defiantly not carrying it by hand on mountain trails.
Second, is you then could gauge the approximate the amount of tailing that would be left at the mine site. Also how much ore could one man mine by hand over that time frame?
Third, if the gold were nuggets then most likely this was a placer gold find. Which would be much easier to recover pack out and leaving little or no signs of tailing behind for someone to discover.

Welcome to the Forum Alan,

Old Jacobs gold was mainly rich Ore that he hand cobbled himself because it was SO rich that's all it required. Apparently the mine itself wasn't very deep so the tailings pile would be small or not detectable.

I'm also a Member of the GPAA and DGD in Tucson.

Bill

 

[gollum]

Rebel,

Welcome, and as Bill said, Waltz hand cobbled the ore that came from his mine before bringing it home. His ore is described as being about 1/3rd gold. Here is a pic of a match safe made from his ore:



If the LDM had any tailings to speak of, it would have been found a loooooooooooong time ago.

Here is the description of the ore in his mine:

18" vein of rose and white quartz shot through with gold, and 8" soft gray tuff with visible gold.

Mike

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Rebel,

Welcome, and as Bill said, Waltz hand cobbled the ore that came from his mine before bringing it home. His ore is described as being about 1/3rd gold. Here is a pic of a match safe made from his ore:

View attachment 1124851

If the LDM had any tailings to speak of, it would have been found a loooooooooooong time ago.

Here is the description of the ore in his mine:

18" vein of rose and white quartz shot through with gold, and 8" soft gray tuff with visible gold.

Mike

From whence comes that description? And if the 'assay' of the under bed ore is correct that came out to 16.63% Almost exactly one sixth. thanks!

 

[djui5]

It came from Waltz himself, through Julia and Rhiney

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

It came from Waltz himself, through Julia and Rhiney

Do you have a legit reference to share?

 

[gollum]

There is also a secondary source for what the ore in the mine looked like. Read the story about John Reed. I won't post the whole thing, but everybody should do a bit of research on John Reed and his involvement with the LDM.



CHLSBRNS,

Another reason I can't get behind you Great Grandson of Waltz. I bet you are talking about Karl Waltz. The SELF PROCLAIMED great grandson of Jacob Waltz FROM HOLLAND!



Jacob Waltz was from Prussia (Germany). He also says that there was never a Lost Dutchman Mine. Waltz made that up to hide the fact that he really got his gold from ancient underground cities. REALLY?



Funny that in the 1880 Phoenix Census, Jacob Waltz was listed as SINGLE (see above). If he had been married in 1876, he sure was quick to forget his wife and child!

Mike

 

[gollum]

You don't?

CN,

Randy has spent more time out in the Supers than many of the people posting here. I have never known him to lie about anything. Do you have some particular reason for doubting something he says?

Mike

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

CN,

Randy has spent more time out in the Supers than many of the people posting here. I have never known him to lie about anything. Do you have some particular reason for doubting something he says?

Mike

The argument that he is an expert is a fallacy all its own, yes? Not sure it is appropriate for you or anyone to impute doubt on to me. In the course of investigation it is foolish to believe anything without evidence or verification. Someone just saying so is NOT that. He throws stuff out there but when asked for the evidence goes silent. (like you did - back from work yet?) We are supposed to eat all this up in blind faith?

Most of the posts are meaningless dribble being without valid reference. How do you expect people to take them?

If someone can't put out the supporting reference to be scrutinized what is the value of their claim?

 

[chlsbrns]

There is also a secondary source for what the ore in the mine looked like. Read the story about John Reed. I won't post the whole thing, but everybody should do a bit of research on John Reed and his involvement with the LDM.

View attachment 1125320

CHLSBRNS,

Another reason I can't get behind you Great Grandson of Waltz. I bet you are talking about Karl Waltz. The SELF PROCLAIMED great grandson of Jacob Waltz FROM HOLLAND!

View attachment 1125321

Jacob Waltz was from Prussia (Germany). He also says that there was never a Lost Dutchman Mine. Waltz made that up to hide the fact that he really got his gold from ancient underground cities. REALLY?

View attachment 1125317 View attachment 1125318

Funny that in the 1880 Phoenix Census, Jacob Waltz was listed as SINGLE (see above). If he had been married in 1876, he sure was quick to forget his wife and child!

Mike

Hahaha! You never cease to amaze me!

Karl: No.
I did post that the info came from ancestry records. I did not say the info came from emails.

Your email says great great grandfather. I said great grandfather.
LoL!

You really need to put more thought into your claims. Your claim that Franks gold contained a lot of copper was a good one! You obviously didnt have a bit of knowledge about the copper content but made the claim anyway. Frank set you straight by posting the assay results.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ya meanlke this Gully ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

C Nether; If there was 'any' valid, proven data, there would no longer be a lost Dutchman mine. I was kidding when I said "you doubt dejuicy" , the same for Gully. Since there is a distinct lack of 'any valid data', it is basically useless to bring up that argument . Aw drink your coffee my friend.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

OK. Works for me. If everyone is just telling tall tales then so be it. If they don't man up to that admission we have the right to ask for verification. Farmer Jake would be proud

 

[djui5]

I'm flattered to have such a reputation.

As to "conceptualizedgoogleearther"s question, it is not my word you should trust, it is the word of Jim Bark and Sims Ely, both who personally interviewed both Julia and Rhiney. I believe we have discussed this in a previous thread. The research is public knowledge my friend. I don't have any secrets.

 

[gollum]

Hahaha! You never cease to amaze me!

Karl: No.
I did post that the info came from ancestry records. I did not say the info came from emails.

Your email says great great grandfather. I said great grandfather.
LoL!

You really need to put more thought into your claims. Your claim that Franks gold contained a lot of copper was a good one! You obviously didnt have a bit of knowledge about the copper content but made the claim anyway. Frank set you straight by posting the assay results.

The statement about the copper content was from Frank. See, if you knew him, you might have spoken to him outside the forums. When we were together in Arizona a few months ago, he was the one saying his gold had a lot of copper in it.

But since all you have are the forums, and being a troll, I wouldn't expect your knowledge of any subject to go very deep.

Also, this is from ON the forums:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...superstition-mountain-gold-8.html#post4251324

Mike

 

[chlsbrns]

The statement about the copper content was from Frank. See, if you knew him, you might have spoken to him outside the forums. When we were together in Arizona a few months ago, he was the one saying his gold had a lot of copper in it.

But since all you have are the forums, and being a troll, I wouldn't expect your knowledge of any subject to go very deep.

Also, this is from ON the forums:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...superstition-mountain-gold-8.html#post4251324

Mike

I get it now! He said his gold had a copper color that could be cleaned and showed pics of it clean and you thought or believed that his gold had a high copper content.

I wouldn't say that someone who posts mostly facts is a troll.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I'm flattered to have such a reputation.

As to "conceptualizedgoogleearther"s question, it is not my word you should trust, it is the word of Jim Bark and Sims Ely, both who personally interviewed both Julia and Rhiney. I believe we have discussed this in a previous thread. The research is public knowledge my friend. I don't have any secrets.

Name calling is the mark of a loser. Disrespecting the other party in a conversation is telling. Of many things. And ^ is not any sort of valid reference. Telling someone to go ogle until they find something to support your point of view is no support for it either.

 

[djui5]

Name calling is the mark of a loser. Disrespecting the other party in a conversation is telling. Of many things. And ^ is not any sort of valid reference. Telling someone to go ogle until they find something to support your point of view is no support for it either.

You have misunderstood me again. Sims Ely wrote a book about the Lost Dutchman mine. Jim Bark published his "notes" on the subject. Neither of which you can find on Google. You asked for a "source" of my answers to your questions since you don't trust my word, then I provide that source of information and you accuse me of name calling. This isn't going I a good direction.

I don't call people names, that's childish. I do wish you understood our conversations more.

 

[motel6.5]

Side Note, Walz at one time had Assayer A.L. Pellegrin of Tucson clean a sackful of ore specimans. Instead of charging
Walz he accepted a chunk of the Gold Quartz for payment which he latter had cut into ring settings for his children.
It is a possibilty the same jewler who cut the ring settings also inlaid the match box. I dont have the jewlers name.

 

[djui5]

I see the problem here, you think I care about whether you believe me or not. You should know I dont. It doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. If you want to know the answers to your basic questions on LDM history then I'm telling you to read the same books/documents that many of us have spent time reading. Then we can have a legitimate discussion on these matters. What I say is common knowledge. Take some time to read and do some research before you accuse me of forging truths.

You're not gonna come on here and demand me to give you anything. It doesn't work like that. I don't care about you.