Request for help in identifying object found near Ohio River

[jefrenshaw]

Good morning, everyone.

Yesterday I purchased the little guy in the attached picture. I bought him from a main in Jeffersonville, IN who said that he found him near the banks of the Ohio River. He said that he spoke with officials at the Falls of the Ohio State Park and that he was told that it is likely a Hopewell Rain God from around the 6th century AD. Unfortunately, the interpretation center at the Park is closed for renovation until fall, so I'm not able to speak with them myself.

Any idea what this could be? He seems like he's in awfully nice shape to be 1,400 years old. Also, any advice about where I can go in the southern Indiana / Louisville, KY area to get an expert opinion?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'm new to treasure hunting.

Jeff

 

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[ARC]

Somehow I missed the word "bought" before posting the statement I jus deleted.

If real... then... "wow".

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You need to post more pictures of all sides including the bottom and close ups that are clear so we can see better. Moving this to Indian artifact forum were experts can look at it

Understand though, there are a lot of fakes sold.

 

[jefrenshaw]

You need to post more pictures of all sides including the bottom and close ups that are clear so we can see better. Moving this to Indian artifact forum were experts can look at it

Understand though, there are a lot of fakes sold.

Thank you! I'll take a few more pictures and post to the artifact forum as you suggested.

Jeff

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Thank you! I'll take a few more pictures and post to the artifact forum as you suggested.

Jeff

You can post new pictures to this thread. I have already moved thread to Indian artifacts.

 

[jefrenshaw]

Thank you for doing that!

 

[Charl]

It's remindful of a Tesuque Pueblo Rain God:

Southwest Indian Pottery | Figurines | Tesuque Pueblo | Potter Unknown | Tesuque Pueblo Rain God Figurine with Large Vessel - Adobe Gallery, Santa Fe

 

[Charl]

If not one of these, perhaps made in copy of these.

Southwest Indian Pottery - Tesuque Pueblo - Historic - Contemporary - Pottery - Figurines - Storytellers - Dough Bowls - Ollas - Storage Jars - New Mexico - Adobe Gallery, Santa Fe

 

[monsterrack]

I believe Charl is on to something.

 

[jefrenshaw]

I believe Charl is on to something, too. The one thing that doesn't match up though is geography. The man who found this piece told me he found it near the Ohio River. As far as I know, the Pueblo lived in the southwest. That said, this piece looks just like the Pueblo Rain God.

 

[Mark Todd]

"Jefrenshaw" your pictures are
great, but you're missing a couple of details that could be helpful; is it made of pottery/ ceramic or perhaps some kind of stone? Size? Is it 5"s, 8"s tall, can't tell for sure only gauging from the 1rst picture with countertop and dishwasher in the background.
Similar shaped figurines have been reportedly found in the central states River valley complex area. Some of the Hopewell and Mississippian artifacts are known to have originated from very distant areas (Canada, Central America, coastal areas, etc..
As far as the figurine looking too good to be "that old" trust me, there are much older
artifacts which have been found that are in pristine condition.
Assuming that the seller was being honest with you, I would consider the possibility that it could be an unfinished effigy pipe. Similar effigies albeit without the tall neck open mouth have been found in your region that were pipes.
Here are a few examples from Arkansas, Arkansas, and Missouri.

 

[jefrenshaw]

Mark and others,

First, I want to thank you for all of your helpful insight. This is my first time to post to this forum and your willingness to help is awesome. The figurine in my photos is about 5 1/2" tall. Is there a tell tale way to determine whether he is clay or stone? He feels a little gritty, but I imagine that could be the texture in either case.

Thanks again!

Jeff

 

[jefrenshaw]

A couple other things that may be worth pointing out...(A) There's a tiny hole in the bottom of the piece and another hole inside of the bowl. You can see the size of the hole in the pictures I posted. (B) It looks like the bowl and the body could be separate pieces. That makes me lean toward believing he's made of clay.

 

[rock]

Might just me and I could be totally wrong but I don't think so. It looks more modern to me than old. To me the material doesn't look rite but like I said I could be wrong. Welcome to the site

 

[Charl]

I believe Charl is on to something, too. The one thing that doesn't match up though is geography. The man who found this piece told me he found it near the Ohio River. As far as I know, the Pueblo lived in the southwest. That said, this piece looks just like the Pueblo Rain God.

If it's a Pueblo Rain God, it may have been found in Ohio, but it's made in New Mexico. Sometime after 1880. Is it possible the man who told you that was not being completely honest? Is this something you wanted to be from Ohio? I hate to go here, but sometimes it happens. Provenance added that is what the buyer is looking for, rather then where it is really from. It's happened to me years ago. Like noted, it isn't impossible that someone found a pottery vessel from New Mexico in Ohio. The problem is, messing with provenance happens. And if you google "Hopewell Rain God", I don't think you'll find anything. Maybe he was just flat out mistaken. Maybe send photos to museums in the SW, asking what they think. If it's a genuine Tesuque Pueblo Rain God, you could research the value. I have seen them sell on eBay. Really, sounds like right ID, wrong locale where found. A rain god, but from the SW, not Hopewell. But Mark Todd knows your region better then me...

 

[Mark Todd]

Mark and others,

First, I want to thank you for all of your helpful insight. This is my first time to post to this forum and your willingness to help is awesome. The figurine in my photos is about 5 1/2" tall. Is there a tell tale way to determine whether he is clay or stone? He feels a little gritty, but I imagine that could be the texture in either case.

Thanks again!

Jeff

Most people with little experience can tell pottery from stone just by its weight compared to mass, or by tapping it lightly with your fingernail,or even tapping your teeth against it to feel whether it's a dense or sparse material/ like pottery. The fact that the head of your figurine has an open mouth and slit eyes that (at least appear in the pics.to be) are hollow behind would suggest pottery rather than stone, but it's always helpful to know for sure from whoever's holding the artifact.

 

[Charl]

Mark and others,

First, I want to thank you for all of your helpful insight. This is my first time to post to this forum and your willingness to help is awesome. The figurine in my photos is about 5 1/2" tall. Is there a tell tale way to determine whether he is clay or stone? He feels a little gritty, but I imagine that could be the texture in either case.

Thanks again!

Jeff

i'm sure it's ceramic.

Mark, we posted at same time. I'm sure for same reasons, those slits for eyes. It's ceramic.....

 

[Charl]

jefrenshaw, should this turn out to not be Hopewell, but rather sometime after 1880, NM, here is a bit on the location. It could very well be real, a neat item to own really. It's apparently a very traditional pueblo and was one of the leaders of the Pueblo Revolt of 1680.

Tesuque Pueblo - New Mexico Tourism - Travel & Vacation Guide

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Contact Joshua Ream. I'm pretty sure he still checks in here every now and then. Also try Neanderthal on here. Matt is one of the best in the country at this stuff.

To me it looks newer than Hopewell.

 

[unclemac]

here is good info about your piece....seems to have been made for the tourist trade.

Southwest Indian Pottery | Figurines | Tesuque Pueblo | Potter Unknown | Tesuque Pueblo Rain God Figurine with Large Vessel - Adobe Gallery, Santa Fe