Richmond, VA City Parks

[Ghalt]

Got this from City Parks and Rec:

Sec. 26-403. Permit required to locate, excavate or remove historical or archaeological resources, relics or artifacts.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to undertake any type of field investigation, exploration or recovery activity in an effort to locate, excavate, remove or otherwise disturb any historical or archaeological resource, relic, artifact or item upon public grounds, including city parks and playgrounds, unless such activity is conducted pursuant to a written permit granted under this section or pursuant to written permission otherwise granted by the chief administrative officer. Upon conviction of an offense under this section, a person shall be guilty of a class 4 misdemeanor.


(Code 1993, § 8-225; Ord. No. 2004-360-330, § 1, 12-13-2004)

That confirms what I had heard through the rumor mill. Guess some kid picking up a penny on the ground COULD get busted. Likely not...this is one of those catch-all rules that they can use in case they see you doing something they don't like.

Some people say that it's better not to ask. I think that depends where you are. In Richmond, the capital of the Confederacy, the historians/archaeologists are pretty touchy. They know there's a lot of stuff here and have already written laws to protect it from the bo-bo-heads out there that dig craters and take everything they can find. So in this case, asking was probably prudent, especially considering the consequences. I'm pretty sure the judge isn't going to buy "but there were no signs saying I couldn't".

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Ghalt, you have found one of the less than 1% of cities, anywhere, that have such verbage. Ie.: 99% of cities/counties will have nothing addressing detecting, or "item recovering", etc...

And yes, it is better not to ask "are there any such rules?" If a person suspected or wondered if there is any such rules in their area, they should look it up themselves. And then, if there IS such a rule, they would find it in writing like you have. Looking it up yourself is different than "asking". Because "asking" can get turned around to where someone tells you "no you can't", when in fact, no law existed.

Even if a person tries hard to phrase their question in a way that puts the onus on the city clerk to prove or show such actual written rules, it can still back-fire. For example: I read of one fellow who distinctly phrased it "Is there anything written in city code that addresses metal detectors in the park?" Now you would THINK that this phrasing would mean that the clerk would need to answer the question, and present such a written rule, or ..... give the alternative "no there's no rules", right? But get this: The clerk searches around through their codes, and doesn't see anything. She excuses herself to talk to persons in another office, and returns a minute later. She tells the guy "We don't want people digging in the park". Do you see how it can back-fire? She never answers his question, but merely has images of geeks with shovels, and interprets his question as some sort of "asking permission", even though he phrased his question quite specifically. And truth be told, the lady, and whomever she talked to in the back, would probably have never given the matter a second thought, if they'd just been driving across town and seen a guy detecting a sandbox.

Contrast THAT, to if you look it up yourself (usually available on-line a city/county websites). If you found it to be silent on the issue, then go.

So, yes, by all means educate yourself to if you're in such a rare locality. But no, don't "ask", lest you just get a law written or interpretted to apply, to "address your pressing issue".

 

[Ghalt]

Tom -

I agree, for the most part.

The difficulty with 'looking it up myself' is that just searching the code (city, county, state) for 'metal detecting' isn't enough. Sometimes it has obscure wording, like 'item on public grounds' .

Asking CAN open up a can of worms...I've read enough on this forum to see that.

My way of asking is to find friends of mine who are cops and ask them if they'd give me a hard time if they saw it. Since they're the ones who enforce the law, they're a safe bet...but only ask ones who are your buddies.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yes, asking cops (rather than city/county hall) is better. They have no vested interest. They will tell you if there's something they've ever heard of as far as law, rather than a personal opinion (as if you'd asked for their OK).

I suppose a cop could turn this around to say "better ask at city hall". Then you'd be back where you started from. That's why it's important how you word it, and the psychology and "who-cares"-phsycology-ness" of how you phrased it.

One time, some buddies and I got behind the fence of an old innner-city urban park scrape (to make way for artificial turf). Naturally, we had to hit it after the workers had left at 5pm (so as not to interfere with worker equipment). But one night, some sort of crime had occured in this blighted neighborhood. Cops came blazing, and crossed through the demo. They asked us: "who are you and what are you doing?". We said "metal detecting" They just ran past us and said "we have more important things to do!" and kept going....." The point is: we could've ran (as if we were doing something wrong), or replied "can we metal detect here?" or whatever. You see how the psychology of how you talk and act, determines the outcome of what you're allowed to actually do?

Like I say: ask enough people if you can pick your own nose, and someone will eventually tell you "no".