Search and Rescue vs. hikers

[cactusjumper]

Roy and Azhiker,

Most of our searches take place well after dark. Not many hikers are pounding around in the desert after dark, so the chances of them stumbling across our victim are slim to non-existent. In situations where the victim is truly lost, we usually find them. We don't quit easily, because we owe them our best effort, as well a the families.

We pay for our own equipment, except for radios (I paid for my own) and are on call 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. Not many hikers are making that kind of commitment to finding people in bad situations. Sometimes they are not lost, but have been murdered. We don't know that until we find the body.

The last search involved looking for a man who was a double murderer, except we didn't know it. The last thing we want is some innocent person walking up on someone who just hacked his last victim into a number of pieces and left the body parts here and there. That makes us a little reluctant to ask someone like Beth, for help.

Tracking someone in the mountains or across snow is nothing like finding tracks at night in the desert. I don't believe there is anything that compares to man tracking in the desert. Over 600 searches a year take place in Arizona alone. Are you saying that 300 of them end in failure? What do you consider failure?

I will say this once again. The Sheriff's Office can't ask civilians to participate in searches, other than trained SAR personal, and we are sworn in as deputies every year. The Sheriff's SAR operates under the control of the State. Each member of the search team must have basic training, and be insured. They will ask for advise, if they need information on the victim or an unknown or unfamiliar area.

Beth,

Your threats are uncalled for. Do whatever you wish.

I believe I will step back out of this conversation.

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[mrs.oroblanco]

Joe,

It was no threat.....YOU said that I was not telling what I was referring to - I just didn't happen to think it was something that needed to be aired, unless you insisted.

Asking somebody like Beth - now, what the hell does that mean?

B

 

[djui5]

One last thing. The idea that I would tell anyone exactly where Jessie's camp was, just shows how little all the experts here know. You may all berate me for being a liar now.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
You are just absolutely amazing you know that? You post a map on this site with the wrong camp site, and when asked you remove it you start slinging the --deleted-- like a monkey with rabies.

Why would you even post a map if the damn camp location was wrong Joe? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Dammit you really piss me off. And what the hell do you mean by "these people"

I'm really sick of your --deleted-- Joe. You are such a hard person to get along with and I'm tired of trying. I'm sick of you starting fights with me over every petty little whatever. I'm sick of you slinging --deleted-- around when things don't go your way.

Don't contact me again. I've had it with you and your petty --deleted--ing games.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Djuicy: Err ah what is "deleted"? the description in my old dictionary doesn't fit the post?? Oro ?? Beth ?? anyone

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Randy,

One wonders why you came back on this Forum. You once deleted all of your posts, because "there are too many crazies" here. Now I am one of the crazies.

"Why would you even post a map if the damn camp location was wrong Joe? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard."

My map was in reply to the question, "where would you search". The little hikers were where I would search, if doing it on my own. I further delineated the area with a yellow box. I placed Jessie's camp at Kane Spring, because that was close enough at the time. I was simply answering the question. No harm could come from my putting Jessie's camp where I arbitrarily placed it. The path and area I would search remains the same, even today. Had I placed his tent where it actually was, I could have compromised what the Sheriff's Office was still doing. People like you were busy passing that information around. I did not want to add to that stupidity.

I don't know who died and left Randy in charge, but you are welcome to the job. From our first contact, I have been a friend to you. I have set you up with people who have shown you many things in the Superstiitions. They have become your friends. When you have been a burro, I have, like a friend, spoke my mind.

If you are through with me, I am better off.

Have a good life,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Tracking someone in the mountains or across snow is nothing like finding tracks at night in the desert. I don't believe there is anything that compares to man tracking in the desert. Over 600 searches a year take place in Arizona alone. Are you saying that 300 of them end in failure? What do you consider failure?

Joe you are assuming that was my only experience in searching for a missing person when it was not - I only mentioned that as it was during a very bad snowstorm and it was feared that if the hunter was not found quickly he would soon die of exposure and the snows would hide everything - I got lucky in finding his trail. I have also been a part of manhunts for escaped prisoners which is a very different thing. I do NOT claim to be an expert in any way, we all want the same thing and I don't understand this apparent bitterness and vitriol.

I did not state that 300 of the SAR missions were failures and did not mean to imply that. I don't think MY personal definition of "failure" would necessarily be the same as anyone elses - failure to find a missing person is not a reflection on those searching in my opinion, it really depends on where that person actually is. There have been cases of a disappearance which resulted in repeated searches and eventually it turned out that the person had deliberately vanished and was "hiding" in another state entirely. Would you say that was a failure on the part of SAR? Yes there has been criticism posted here in T-net - so what? Sometimes criticism can be constructive, helping to find new ways to address problems.

Joe you seem to have been taking a lot of the posts as direct and personal insults, when they may not have been intended that way at all. I have been reading the same posts and am not getting the same meanings you appear to be, maybe it is my misunderstanding of them.

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

Djuicy: Err ah what is "deleted"? the description in my old dictionary doesn't fit the post?? Oro ?? Beth ?? anyone

I can't imagine what it might mean Don Jose' - perhaps it was substituted for "superb" and "genius"? That is the way I read it when someone writes me a note full of those "-deleted-"-s I figure they were a string of high praise and compliments, which were removed as a matter of respect. Is there some other meanings which they might represent?

I don't have much time to be on here at the moment, just checking in and was hoping to see some good news posted. Imagine my surprise. Will check back this evening,
Oroblanco

 

[djui5]

Dear Randy,

My map was in reply to the question, "where would you search". The little hikers were where I would search, if doing it on my own.

See, this is what is so frustrating!! If you were making a map of where you would search, then why put his camp on there at all?? I just don't understand it Joe. Really, I don't. Maybe it wasn't that far "away", but ask anyone who has hunted the Dutchman mine in the last 100 years how important "not far away" can be in those mountains. I thought I had kindly asked you to remove it, but I guess I was being an asshole. Then the fight ensued. Well it isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last.

You are such a nice person in real life, but on the internet you are such an asshole. It's another thing I will probably never understand.

BTW, I do appreciate you "setting me up" with people, but don't fucking hang it over my head like I owe you my life. That isn't cool Joe.

 

[RGINN]

We appreciate the search and rescue teams here in the mountains. In many cases they're searching an area the public has no business being in (avalanche slides) Lost hikers are like looking for a needle in a haystack. Some folks are scratching their heads about the word disingenuous which has appeared twice here, (well three times now). It's true meaning is insincere, but I think it's been used in previous posts to indicate naive or uninformed.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Rginn,

While I agree with you - finding a hiker is like finding a needle in a haystack - finding a treasure hunter is like having to find the haystack in a field of haystacks, and then trying to figure out which haystack even has the needle!!

You know how we are - "oh - wait, what is that over there.............................................."

B