SEASON 8

[gazzahk]

and yes before you ask, I do believe the original 3 dug a hole.. it may or may not have ever had treasure in it..

Yes I agree.. I to believe the legend must home some basis of truth. I personally would really like the story told by the descendants of the original finders to be true... This seems to me to explain the start of the legend. Some treasure was found.. Word got out.. People went looking in an empty hole. Found some totally non related structures that they could not explain and added some wishful thinking.... The legend of Oak Island was born. At least this version has oral family history to support it and an actual GOLD cross...

However I know this is just what I want to be true and not because there is any strong/convincing/actual evidence that this version of history is in anyway true...

I do not believe that any "mythical group" buried "Priceless treasure" on a small island of the coast of Canada...

 

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[DaveVanP]

Do you believe as Singlestack does that no one ever dug a hole that later became known as the Money Pit....

The fact is, the contention is that there was NEVER any MONEY in the "pit" that no one has denied ever existing. The skeptics assert that there was NEVER a pit that MONEY (or anything of historic or intrinsic value) had been buried in - therefore there was never a MONEY pit...just an EMPTY "pit".

 

[n2mini]

The fact is, the contention is that there was NEVER any MONEY in the "pit" that no one has denied ever existing. The skeptis assert is that there was NEVER a pit that MONEY (or anything of historic or intrinsic value) had been buried in - therefore there was never a MONEY pit...just an EMPTY "pit".

Most would agree with that. yet a few of them don't believe the 3 dug a hole at all, and have said so... It can't be proven or maybe it can if they'd be willing to have the gold cross the family descendents have date tested if that's possible at this point.. Even if it is old enough to fit the story that doesn't mean it actually came out of the MP but it would go a long ways to most of answering the OI stories... as most would believe it to be true and here is the proof..

 

[DaveVanP]

Having participated in some practical jokes of a similar vein...it could be that three guys (McGinnis, Vaughn, Smith) just decided to "pull a fast one" on some friends, and dug a hole in a secluded spot, and told others they believed they had found a treasure-burying site - but they hadn't found it yet...it's STILL THERE!!!
After all:
1. It is only THEIR word that there was a "depression" in the ground under a tree limb;
2 It is only THEIR word that this tree limb had a block and tackle hanging from it (or a worn spot on the limb, or just a length of rope, depending on which version);
3. It is only THEIR word they dug 30 feet down, finding log platforms, and a "layer of flagstones";

I use the term "their words" rather vicariously, as these stories are ATTRIBUTED to McGinnis and his companions, but there are in fact, NO first-hand accounts by any of the story originators - which even stories don't agree on. The original story told by Vaughn (FIRST described in 1862, 60+ years "after the facts"), had McGinnis finding the "depression" ALONE, in 1799, while searching for a building lot. The current (TV) story has him with the two others, finding it in 1795 while on a fishing trip.

Subsequent searchers acted on such nebulous and enigmatic clues, and rather than suffering public humiliation by admitting they were duped, spending thousands (later MILLIONS) of dollars in a fruitless search based on what amounts to a "pub story" (or "sea story*" for you veterans), the searchers would "keep the legend alive" by admitting only that "they didn't find it YET".

Henry Bowdoin, the leader of the 1909 Oak Island treasure search in which FDR participated in (Old Gold Salvage Group), wrote an article for Collier's National Weekly Magazine after the conclusion of his treasure hunt: "My experience proved to me that there was not, and never was, a buried treasure on Oak Island. The mystery is solved." (H. L. Bowdoin, “Solving the Mystery of Oak Island,” Colliers, August 19, 1911, pgs.19-20.) The complete 1911 Colliers article Bowdoin wrote can be seen here, in which he itemizes the many factual findings which led him to this conclusion: http://www.jasoncolavito.com/solving-oak-island.html

* Fairy Tale begins: "Once upon a time..."
Sea Story begins: "I sh*t you not; this really happened..."
Other than that, there is NO DIFFERENCE.

 

[n2mini]

All or none of that is possible sadly. The 3 did have to get help once they got down so far supposedly from some of their friends or towns people. And once they quit and other companies formed and came in to dig a couple of the guys worked with those groups as well. Why would they do that if they made the whole story up to begin with. They aren't getting anything out of it. Why not just sit back and laugh at them instead of being one of the fools still digging..

 

[DaveVanP]

Most would agree with that. yet a few of them don't believe the 3 dug a hole at all, and have said so... It can't be proven or maybe it can if they'd be willing to have the gold cross the family descendents have date tested if that's possible at this point.. Even if it is old enough to fit the story that doesn't mean it actually came out of the MP but it would go a long ways to most of answering the OI stories... as most would believe it to be true and here is the proof..

Well, the story was first "revealed" over 60 years AFTER the alleged hole-digging (1862)...it's not like there were any witnesses or any verification...just a magazine article printing an aged Anthony Vaughn's "story".

 

[DaveVanP]

All or none of that is possible sadly. The 3 did have to get help once they got down so far supposedly from some of their friends or towns people. And once they quit and other companies formed and came in to dig a couple of the guys worked with those groups as well. Why would they do that if they made the whole story up to begin with. They aren't getting anything out of it. Why not just sit back and laugh at them instead of being one of the fools still digging..

The stories say they dug down 30 feet, then quit, either because they got tired, or because of "superstitious fear"...
It is quite likely that "other companies" (Onslow and Truro) came seeking the treasure, and McGinnis and possibly his buddies "consulted" for them (for a small fee, of course)...and sat back and laughed at them.

 

[n2mini]

everything is still on the table I guess, but why would you need someone to consult you on how to continue their dig straight down... If one of them owned the land they were actually digging on then yeah I could believe they were getting alittle something out of it in leasing the land to them.. Don't think they did though...

 

[ECS]

...
Sure sounds like you don't believe the original 3 dug a hole... so what is it. It's a yes or no question really it is... YES they did dig a hole, or NO they did not. I'm just trying to get everyone to actually say what they believe in and not be playing their posts on somewhat both sides of said story as it fits their narrative at the moment for the point they are trying to get across..
SOME, of ya'll keep flip flopping on that part.
Your sounding like you don't believe they ever dug a hole but you won't actually say that...

Your lack of comprehension of what I posted is truly amazing, so I will make another attempt to explain.
The entire Oak Island tale is based on the word of McGinnis, Vaughn, and Smith-NO ONE else ever saw this original hole.
All knowledge of this alleged hole come from second or thirdhand sources like newspapers and/or magazine articles.
You, n2mini, never saw the alleged original "hole", you just believe there was a hole from what you read from an outside source.
Therefore, your knowledge of said "hole" originates from the hearsay of the three, not from direct knowledge.
From this hearsay, you assume that there was an original hole on Oak Island, but in all reality, you don't really know that as a fact.
Your constant boring badgering of other posters to admit there was a hole is totally unwarranted and ridiculous, considering that you, n2mini my fried, have no way of knowing if an original hole ever existed or if it was a tale tale told by the three.
Savvy?
'Nuff Said!

 

[franklin]

You need to tell the Lagina brothers there never was an original hole dug on Oak Island? They may reward you for saving them so much money. They have drilled holes like a screen wire searching for that original hole or shaft as they call it. About $40 Million has already been spent over 225 years searching for the empty hole or shaft. But there never was an original hole? HA HA

 

[n2mini]

ECS, we all believe it one way or the other. Doesn't make it right or wrong as we will never know. I just find it amazing that you will not admit it one way or the other. The story goes that they did go get help "from others" well before they quit digging for good. If that is true then there were others that saw the hole. I'm "guessing" that the Truro Company saw it as well since they came in behind them and one or more of them worked with them... Someone had to dig a hole to start all this.. It's funny you say that I never saw the hole. Which is true but NONE of us did which also means if the original 3 or ANYONE ever did find a treasure we'd not know about it. So you and "others" on here can't say for a FACT that it or the island never had treasure on it as you don't know.. as I said this morning else where that yes I do believe the original dug a hole. I might be wrong but atleast I own up to it.. Does or did it have treasure in it who knows....

I'll ask you again. Do you think the boys dug a hole? It's a yes or no question. If they did not then how did all this get started? (This is what it keeping you from answering the first question. ) What enticed the other groups to form companies to come in and dig? No wrong answer here really as it is all speculative.. Heck make something up but take a stand on it...

 

[mts]

I'll ask you again. Do you think the boys dug a hole? It's a yes or no question. If they did not then how did all this get started? (This is what it keeping you from answering the first question. ) What enticed the other groups to form companies to come in and dig? No wrong answer here really as it is all speculative.. Heck make something up but take a stand on it...

How did all of this get started? Every single treasure hunting company that has been on Oak Island started digging because they heard a STORY. Was there already a hole there when the Truro Company arrived? I don't know. Does it matter? No.

If after hearing the story, do you think they would have decided not to dig if they showed up and no one else had already started a hole for them? I can just hear the conversation now... "Yeah Jake, ready to dig for this buried treasure we heard so much about? Hey wait a minute.... something fishy is going on here! There's no hole in the ground yet! Better pack up our crap and head back to Californy!"

Do you have anything else you want to discuss because this "hole" nonsense is tiring and seems to me like you are trying to distract from the fact that you have no other concrete evidence to back up your beliefs.

 

[ECS]

... The story goes ...

"The story goes"...
'Nuff Said!

 

[n2mini]

It is tiring but that is what started of all this. Without it there is nothing. Keep in mind that a couple of other companies came in to dig before everyone's first writing of it was published supposedly. I'm guessing that was not the first writing of it. Had to be some local stuff going around on it in order for other companies to hear about it. No I can't prove that.

Would you go digging just anywhere just because someone told you too.. Now had they already dug a hole say 30' deep and had a good story to go along with it, how about then...People don't just go digging for treasure without atleast a good story/reason behind it... evidence would be great of course.

As you see on here too many people just want to discredit everything the show is doing or what others on here think might have happened but they don't say too much on what they believe about it to not be tied down to anything so when they flip flop around on what they are saying in a different thread they fell ok with it.. I have been calling them out on it and they get pissed as you see...If there was never a hole dug how did this get started. No one wants to go there and or has a decent answer for that. I'm sure they are all thinking up something to say about that now of course.. Never mentioned along the way though. Just wanted to throw out the no hole ever dug thing..
At this point there is no way to have decent conversations on here anymore like it was in the early years of this forum. Sure there were still "believers" and "nay sayers" but we all got along better and didn't speak as if everything we say is a fact when we all know it's not. It's just what I or whoever thinks/believes.. oh, the good ole days!!!!

 

[DaveVanP]

everything is still on the table I guess, but why would you need someone to consult you on how to continue their dig straight down... If one of them owned the land they were actually digging on then yeah I could believe they were getting alittle something out of it in leasing the land to them.. Don't think they did though...

I used the term "consult" to answer your question(post #385), "And once they quit and other companies formed and came in to dig a couple of the guys worked with those groups as well. Why would they do that if they made the whole story up to begin with." That is how they "helped the groups"... they provided info/consulted/told them where to dig...and then sat back, toasted each others' cleverness with tankards of ale, and giggled about it.

 

[Robert_Dazzler]

Forget about viruses, stock market manipulation, lobbying for laws to make you money, phony stories about "saviors", etc etc.. EVERYONE knows the BEST way to make a FORTUNE is to dupe investors into giving you money to find buried treasure with ZERO evidence of there ever being one. DUH

 

[n2mini]

I used the term "consult" to answer your question(post #385), "And once they quit and other companies formed and came in to dig a couple of the guys worked with those groups as well. Why would they do that if they made the whole story up to begin with." That is how they "helped the groups"... they provided info/consulted/told them where to dig...and then sat back, toasted each others' cleverness with tankards of ale, and giggled about it.

Maybe. "consult" is your answer that you believe in.. I don't see why anyone would need them to consult them on how to dig a hole that is already started straight down.. Just my thinking though.. but hey if they offer to pay me to stand there and watch them dig I'd do it too...

 

[DaveVanP]

I'll ask you again. Do you think the boys dug a hole? It's a yes or no question. If they did not then how did all this get started?

Question 1: I don't know. NOBODY knows.
Question 2: It got started because somebody, for the FIRST time, wrote about it (60+ years later, without proof), and stated "the boys" dug a hole... Who knows maybe "the boys" dug their hole, because somebody told THEM about a fabulous "Money Pit" on Oak Island (Vaughn did claim it was Capt. Kidd's treasure - which is, itself, only rumored.)

Our friend Franklin has claimed to know the location to, or the "secrets of" several wonderous treasures around the country, but cannot share them or provide proof, due to government regulations, or perhaps even personal danger to his life...but you are claiming we should accept his stories at face value as "absolutely true" just as we should accept the "the boys" did, in fact "dig a hole"? All that's REALLY true is that somebody DID believe it, and....here we are.

 

[franklin]

Well yesterday, I located all the treasures of Great Britain up until the time of King John about 1216 AD. Today, I located the cave or tomb where King Arthur was kept during the Winter of 579AD in Kentucky. Yes in Kentucky. What have all you been doing posting "hit me first" no you "hit me first." I do not go for that kind of talk or work. I work. I get things done. And eventually the whole World will see what I have done.

 

[mts]

Without it there is nothing.

You keep saying this but it is simply not true. Boys make up story to tell their friends. Friends think it is a great story and tell others. Treasure hunters hear about it and get interested. The story is good enough that they don't care about whether or not there is already a hole there (or boys lie and tell them that a hole was dug and then filled back in). Greedy treasure hunters decide to dig based solely on a story. In my example there was NEVER a hole dug there before the treasure hunters got there. And yet the treasure hunters are digging anyway. Are you saying this is not possible?

Would you go digging just anywhere just because someone told you too..

I wouldn't, but greedy treasure hunters do it all the time. Have you been over to the "Treasure Markers and Signs" forum? How about the "Dowsing Forum"? "Long Range Locators" forum perhaps? There is no shortage of gullible people who, given a good enough story, will go out and start digging without even a shred of credible evidence. Are you saying that NO ONE has ever dug somewhere just because someone told them to?

People don't just go digging for treasure without at least a good story/reason behind it

Yes they do. All the time. See above. You are trying to make a claim using an absolute. By saying "people don't" you are implying "all people don't". Are you saying it is not possible for ANY person to decide to go digging for treasure without at least a good story/reason behind it? Also, aren't we talking about holes here? Can't someone have a really good story and not have a physical hole they can show and just claim that they filled the hole in? Are you trying to say that it is impossible to have a good story if you don't also have a hole? And isn't it really easy to just dig a hole after the fact or claim to have filled it in? In other words.... can't a hole be "faked"?

If there was never a hole dug how did this get started. No one wants to go there and or has a decent answer for that.

I went there and you appear to have ignored the post.... Simple answer: it started with a STORY. And whether or not a hole was already there is irrelevant to whether or not a treasure hunting company could be convinced to go there and start digging.

And frankly, I have no idea how this has anything to do with whether or not someone dug a 100 foot pit hundreds of years ago and buried a treasure there. It's clear you are trying to perform character assassination in an attempt to try and build credibility. You want to try and get someone on record as having flip flopped so that you can point it out and try to bring them down. Yet you claim there is no way to have decent conversations anymore when you appear to be the one who is being disingenuous.

The only one I've seen so far speaking as if everything they say is fact is you. You keep saying things like "without a hole in the ground there is nothing". That's a pretty absolute statement of "fact" to make considering how wrong it is.... FACT: Countless treasure hunting stories exist where there is no original hole in the ground to point to. And people believe these stories and go digging around in the ground anyway. I don't see why you think that establishing whether or not the boys dug a physical hole before the first treasure hunters arrived on the scene has any bearing whatsoever over what happened hundreds of years before that. Why are you putting so much energy into this?

Are you looking to have a conversation about the merits of the show or the legend or are you just interested in attempted character assassination? I have to think at this point that you are really only interested in trying to bring other people down by looking for any slip up you can find. So why are you surprised when people choose not to give you that opportunity?