Seeking .22 rifle target rifle knowledge... building one

[Dave Rishar]

i shot a 5 round group under a DIME without holes showing. Tim, the only one that could vouch for me is gone. .222 from a stock 700 BDL with varmint barrel. TTC

I believe you, no need for anyone to vouch for it. How many times have you repeated this feat?

 

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[Limitool]

I'd ask your gunsmith about shoots. He likely knows a local or two that participates.
You could ask at Four Seasons there in Centerville too...

Well sir... I did check with them. That's where my KIDD receiver and barrel was delivered for this build. And he stated there are NO shooting ranges or competitions like I inquired about around here. BUT THIS AREA NEEDS ONE he stated. Maybe that's something for me too think about possibly...? Maybe I can rename this ridge top from "copperhead ridge" to "rimfire ridge"...? I do have the room. I'm working hard now on getting a shooting bench design to build within the next week before my first .22 gun build is back from gunsmith.

And yes Duckshot... I'm going to post yet more pics on the internet of my 1st gun build. I'm kind of proud of it. Lots of folks have them but this one is my 1st. and I'd like others to see and help me.

 

[Limitool]

You might check with the folks at the links below.

Eagle Eye Shooting Complex in Mt. Pleasant. Eagle Eye Shooting Complex - NRL 22

Henry County Gun Club. https://www.henrycountygunclub.com/rimfire-benchrest/

Hell yea Frank.... The first is in my BACK YARD!!!! Columbia suburb! The other is very close also. That's exactly what I'd like to do and have fun with! THANK YOU for letting me know. BUT... before I ever go there to have fun I have a LOT to learn. The Eagle Eye Shooting one shoots out to 300 yds.! GREAT! Now I feel better about the scope I bought WHEN I learn how to use it. That's what this scope is designed for. (Vortex Strike Eagle 4-24 X 50 MM.)

I wonder why the gun shop in Centerville didn't know about it...?

 

[TerryC]

I believe you, no need for anyone to vouch for it. How many times have you repeated this feat?

i only did it once, for gp. I never shot competitive rifle. Only liked to shoot pistol for the department. Made 100 club three times with the mod. 14. My standard as an instructor was hit a postage stamp out of the gun case (cold barrel) and you did not have to practice that day. They practiced anyway. TTC

 

[GA_Boy]

I believe you, no need for anyone to vouch for it. How many times have you repeated this feat?

I agree too, if TerryC told me he had a Rooster that could pull a dead Volkswagen I would not hesitate to hook him up.
Marvin

 

[Dave Rishar]

i only did it once, for gp. I never shot competitive rifle.

My intent is not to take a crap on either shooter or equipment, but the reason that I asked is because I've shot some very amazing groups, and also some very amazing single shots. Some of them I will chalk up to equipment and/or the shooter. But some (most?) of them, I would not be comfortable in attempting to repeat if money were placed on the outcome.

When I say that I can do X with Y firearm, I say it because it's repeatable. I may not be able to do it every time, but I can do it more often than not. I'd certainly be willing to take a crack at it, cold, with people standing around watching. I might not be willing to put money on it for a first attempt, but I'd certainly bet on pulling it off 3 out of 5 attempts. If I couldn't do it that reliably, I wouldn't mention it - except with that caveat that I only did it once, and would not be able to reliably do it again.

I'm not saying that your claim is in this category, but I will go on record as saying that this is a known problem on the internet in general - hence the PSA for other folks that may chime in with their claims, especially when we're discussing accuracy on the internet, as this (and gunshops) tend to be the worst places to discuss such things. I'm not calling them liars. I'm sure that they shot what they did. I'm only here to remind them that if they can't do it on a regular basis, it was not equipment or skill, but rather luck, and it should be described as such so as not to confuse people who are new to the scene.

I'm speaking as a guy that's made a lot of lucky shots.

 

[TerryC]

My intent is not to take a crap on either shooter or equipment, but the reason that I asked is because I've shot some very amazing groups, and also some very amazing single shots. Some of them I will chalk up to equipment and/or the shooter. But some (most?) of them, I would not be comfortable in attempting to repeat if money were placed on the outcome.

When I say that I can do X with Y firearm, I say it because it's repeatable. I may not be able to do it every time, but I can do it more often than not. I'd certainly be willing to take a crack at it, cold, with people standing around watching. I might not be willing to put money on it for a first attempt, but I'd certainly bet on pulling it off 3 out of 5 attempts. If I couldn't do it that reliably, I wouldn't mention it - except with that caveat that I only did it once, and would not be able to reliably do it again.

I'm not saying that your claim is in this category, but I will go on record as saying that this is a known problem on the internet in general - hence the PSA for other folks that may chime in with their claims, especially when we're discussing accuracy on the internet, as this (and gunshops) tend to be the worst places to discuss such things. I'm not calling them liars. I'm sure that they shot what they did. I'm only here to remind them that if they can't do it on a regular basis, it was not equipment or skill, but rather luck, and it should be described as such so as not to confuse people who are new to the scene.

I'm speaking as a guy that's made a lot of lucky shots.

What you say is very true. Let me expound further and say that police long-range rifle (defined sniper) shooting must no longer be in the realm of lucky shots. It transcends the FUN stuff into very hard and tedious WORK. Hours and hours of practice and then hours and hours more to get it right. Consistently. Hitting an apple with an arrow is one thing. Hitting it atop your son’s head is entirely different. I only say I shot it once is to say I only tried once, that I remember. (This was done in my pre-instructor days) To repeat the feat the equipment, weather, lighting, my health and attitude would all have to be near perfect. Throw in the cost and time required to maintain that degree of expertise and I can tell you right now, I am no longer up to it. But there WAS a day..... That kind of shooting is still being done, daily, by those with the passion and/or the requirement to “git ‘er done”. Time and health has tempered my ability to do that. TTC

 

[TerryC]

Now, if you want to talk pistol, my abilities are recorded. Terrance Cieszki. If you know where to look, as a police bullseye shooter, I believe you will find me ranked 14th in the state of WI in ‘91, the last time I shot in police competition. (Patting myself on the back, here, a little) TTC

 

[releventchair]

Pictures of yet another gun on the internet?

Just show us that 100 yard group of five that can hide behind a Washington quarter.

I'm not a target saver. Don't know if I've had hundred yard 5 shot groups covered with a quarter...
I'll do you one better though with a .22.
You toss a 33 r.p.m. record in the air at a hundred yards and I'll take one shot before it hits the ground.
There will be a hole dead center....

First shot counts on game.
Competitions I enjoyed the most were not punching paper ,though as you put it I have got lucky.

Black powder ,open sights were the best.
There were folks better than I ,and better than many folks with their pet centerfires. Lots of serious practice and learning equipment will do that.
Cutting strings. Cutting playing cards in half. Splitting a roundball on an axe head and breaking both clay pigeons (one on each side), hitting tacks after choosing one ,snuffing candles ,shootingheads off matches. ect. .
Yes there were hundred yard targets. Farther targets too on occasion.
There were barrel types and twists that excelled below a hundred that gave fits at a hundred.

The thing is ,wringing out the greatest potential of a weapon and more so it's user.
That could be ten yards or six hundred yards. Or more ,or less.
Paper is fine if you are into that.
What can be done on paper is very different though than live targets.
A maximum point blank range range under ideal conditions is a start. And that depends on the shooter usually , more than what equipage they are shooting. Though premium equipment can be expected to perform better than more poorly constructed.

 

[huntsman53]

My intent is not to take a crap on either shooter or equipment, but the reason that I asked is because I've shot some very amazing groups, and also some very amazing single shots. Some of them I will chalk up to equipment and/or the shooter. But some (most?) of them, I would not be comfortable in attempting to repeat if money were placed on the outcome.

When I say that I can do X with Y firearm, I say it because it's repeatable. I may not be able to do it every time, but I can do it more often than not. I'd certainly be willing to take a crack at it, cold, with people standing around watching. I might not be willing to put money on it for a first attempt, but I'd certainly bet on pulling it off 3 out of 5 attempts. If I couldn't do it that reliably, I wouldn't mention it - except with that caveat that I only did it once, and would not be able to reliably do it again.

I'm not saying that your claim is in this category, but I will go on record as saying that this is a known problem on the internet in general - hence the PSA for other folks that may chime in with their claims, especially when we're discussing accuracy on the internet, as this (and gunshops) tend to be the worst places to discuss such things. I'm not calling them liars. I'm sure that they shot what they did. I'm only here to remind them that if they can't do it on a regular basis, it was not equipment or skill, but rather luck, and it should be described as such so as not to confuse people who are new to the scene.

I'm speaking as a guy that's made a lot of lucky shots.

Good points Dave and the very reason that I told Brad (Limitool) on Saturday that I resisted posting any of my shooting feats because I have no proof of most of them but believe or don't believe whichever you choose, here are a few!

Besides being a Truck Driver, General's Driver, Duty Driver for 22 Field Grade Officers plus a Command Sergeant Major and also as an Admin Specialist during my almost 5 1/2 years in the U.S. Army, I also attended Weapons School in June 1973 at Hohenfelds, Germany (West Germany at the time) and came back to my' Unit, Headquarters Company of the 2nd Battalion, 33rd Armored Tigers (the last Battalion in what was Patton's Tiger Division) of the 1st Brigade, 3rd Armored Division at Ayers Kaserne in Kirchgoens, Germany to be the Company Armorer. Being the Company Armorer from July 1973 to September 1974 was sometimes hell in an Armored Tank Unit but it afforded me some special privileges. As such, I finally was able to obtain Expert with the M-16 Rifle which I was unable to do in Basic Training since all of the M-16's except one had the bores shot out of them. I became an Expert with the M2 .50 Caliber Machine Gun and was sent with 4 hand-picked four man teams from the 3rd Armored Division to a German Air Defense Artillery Kaserne on the Baltic Sea to fire M2 .50 Caliber Machine Guns mounted on Ring Mounts on 5-ton Cargo Trucks against 4 Vulcan (M163 VADS) teams. Each team fired at a Sleeve with a Shot Counter being pulled by a single engine airplane at approximately 300 to 500 meters in altitude across the firing range. We fired against the Vulcan teams for 3 days and we out shot the Vulcans 130 to 40 hits per pass on average. On the 3rd day, we were making 150 to 160 hits per pass while the Vulcan teams never exceeded 60 hits even after switching their' Radar sighting off and going to visual sights. Also on the 3rd day, we became so bored with beating the Vulcan teams that we began aiming at the cable pulling the Sleeves. After dropping 4 Sleeves with Shot Counters in them into the Baltic Sea, they just sent plain Sleeves across the firing range but we shot them down as well. After that, I was afforded the opportunity to fire every weapon in the West German Army's arsenal with the exception of their' tanks and mortars. We even fired the West German Army's G3 Combat Rifle from 50 to 1500 meters at half silhouettes with only Graded Open Sights and only one shot for familiarization at each firing line, then firing 5 shots for record at each level. Everything was fine until I Robin Hooded a previous shot at the 500 meter line and even though I protested and showed them what I thought was clear evidence (slight widening of the previous hole) of a hit, they still recorded it as a miss. I then accidentally pulled one shot off at the 1000 meter line, so now I had two misses. When I got back to the 1500 meter firing line, so many Shooters had dropped out due to misses or not being able to see the target, they moved me from the 2nd firing lane to the 6th firing lane shooting an unfamiliar weapon in an unfamiliar lane. I protested the move to no avail and after taking the familiarization shot, I moved the German G3 slightly to the right on the sandbags to make my record shots but the 1st shot hit a limb and was recorded as my 3rd miss, taking me out of contention for a medal. After realizing what had occurred, I moved the German G3 slight back to the left and still made 4 hits in the Sweet Spot on the half silhouette with a shot group that fit under an upside down coffee cup. Because of my' eyesight and shooting ability, I was asked on more than one occasion to attend Sniper School which I declined but now wish I had accepted. My eyesight was never really test while I was in the U.S. Army with the exception of whether it was 20/20 or not and it was not until I developed Astigmatism and needed Reading Glasses that I found out how good my' long range eyesight really was or at least the best estimate. In 2000, while checking my' eyesight, the Optometrist asked me how far I could see certain things. Confused, I asked him to repeat that and he said it again. I then stated, I can see a Ground Hog stand up on it's hind legs in a field at more than a 1000 yards and see a man standing in a field at a mile and a half. The Optometrist then stated, well that explains it and I asked, explains what. He said that he thought that his' equipment was broke because it could not measure my' actual long range eyesight. Before I left his' office, he said that he guessed that my' eyesight was 20/05 at the time which was 26 years after I fired the German G3 Combat Rifle from 50 to 1500 meters, so my' eyesight may have been even better back then but who knows. While my' eyesight has and is waning from what it was, I can still see a very, very long ways and especially so if I drink less coffee and get plenty of rest.

 

[TerryC]

We all have our moments.... our 15 minutes of fame. I now wear glasses. They just ain't like they used to be. Left eye is now 20/50 but the shooting eye is still 20/18. Passable. Only problem is the rest of the body is sliding! ╦╦Ç

 

[huntsman53]

We all have our moments.... our 15 minutes of fame. I now wear glasses. They just ain't like they used to be. Left eye is now 20/50 but the shooting eye is still 20/18. Passable. Only problem is the rest of the body is sliding! ╦╦Ç

I know what you mean Terry as my' body has been sliding for a long time! My' pelvis was popped out of place during bivouac in AIT at Fort Dix, New Jersey in March of 1973, the U.S. Army Doctors and a civilian Orthopedic Surgeon could not figure out what was wrong, so I spent a little over 5 more years without any help while in the U.S. Army. It wasn't until I got out that a retired Chiropractor found that my' pelvis was out of place and popped it back in. He even showed me how to pop it back into place myself because he said that it had been out so long, that it would pop out again. How true that statement was. Due to my' pelvis being out of place so long, it damaged the disks in my' lower spine and I have suffered very, very much over the years and sit here at the computer in pain and the pain never stops and has not stopped for years. I have no idea what my' long range eyesight is nowadays but it is still extremely good but wish the Astigmatism could be corrected. I have a little problem with front and rear rifle sights that are too close but don't have problems with those that are farther apart nor do I have problems with rifle scopes. However, I prefer open sights and Peep Sights are my favorite.

 

[GA_Boy]

I took my Wife to a range and she once said, "Marvin shot a perfect three shot group".

The truth is I made one good shot with my .45 and purposely went wide right with the other two shots.
Then told her all three shots went in the same hole.
After we got home I told her the truth but for a while I had her going.
Marvin

 

[Dave Rishar]

Limitool, did you ever build your 10/22? I finally got mine done. Between the stamp and the refinishing and everything else, it took a bit longer than I'd planned, but it's almost there. The important stuff is all done anyway. I'd kept the option of an aftermarket barrel open, but although the chopped factory one is a bit heavier than I'd like, it seems to be doing the job. More testing is required of course.



When you consider that you're looking for a target rifle and I was essentially looking for a stocked rimfire pistol, and that we can both build what we want off the same firearm...well, that's a pretty flexible design I'd say.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

10/22
I shot 10 round groups (at 20 yards) off sandbags once after buying about 10 different brands of ammo.

The tightest (and nearly flattest) ammo was Remington Yellow Jackets ($9.99 for 500 rounds).
It was the dirtiest ammo and the bullets seemed loose in the case.

Each gun will have its own preferences having nothing to do with price.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Cant go wrong with a ruger 10/22. I bought the takedown tactical model a few years ago and it's been flawless. It eats any ammo and the 25 rd mags are a good time. Mine is stock and I'll just keep it the way it is, besides the 3-9 scope. Maybe a trigger upgrade someday but there are so many cool parts!

After dealing with a marlin model 60 for years I cant believe I waited as long as I did. What a hunk of junk that thing was!
I've been happy with other marlin firearms but the model 60 was usually like a musket. It might fire the first shot but then it was only a club. It never would work right and became a dust collector in the closet.
The 10/22 brought me back from the funk I was in with that marlin and it got me out shooting alot more. I forgot how much fun 22s were and I can afford to shoot them without going broke!

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Brother bought a new 10/22 a couple years ago..just the basic model, (I think before they went to plastic trigger guards). It stove pipes about 10% of the time. Chipped the stock out near the ejection area. It did at least cycle properly for 3 shots at the factory

 

[63bkpkr]

Dave Rishar, That is an interesting and Fine looking machine!


I believe I see a bit of a gold ring towards the front of the scope. Stubby sucker of a barrel and Fat! Ahh what fun! Thank you for sharing!.................63bkpkr

How does it shoot at what yardage? Does it like a particular ammo?? Fun to see it exist's!

 

[Limitool]

10/22
I shot 10 round groups (at 20 yards) off sandbags once after buying about 10 different brands of ammo.

The tightest (and nearly flattest) ammo was Remington Yellow Jackets ($9.99 for 500 rounds).
It was the dirtiest ammo and the bullets seemed loose in the case.

Each gun will have its own preferences having nothing to do with price.

I most certainly don't want to start a "ammo war" here. And I NEVER collected data from 25 yds. yet. But I have most certainly found a HUGE difference in expensive ammo VS cheap ammo. I have all the cheap ammo from Winchester, Remington and many other cheaper brands. And yes... many are "dirty". I'm NOT making light of those brands prices as for most/many they ARE expensive. But the more expensive bricks / ammo are for a reason. If anyone would like a list a of the "better" ammo I've used/tried I'll post... but DOES that mean THEY ARE THE BEST for your rifle.... NO! All of my opinions come from 50 yd. bench shooting experience only for now.

As you stated above: "Each gun will have its own preferences having nothing to do with price." That statement may be true. But I promise there is a difference between $10.00 bricks and $100.00 + bricks. And the price climbs easily from the $100.00 bricks.There is a HUGE difference in ammo according to prices. But in order to "prove" it you have to invest into the ammo and that costs up to 2-3K plus for all to try. YES... each rifle does have its preferences... and I totally agree. But it starts with a high quality machined .22 rimfire and then handed off to world class ammo. And from there breathing, aim and a world class trigger pull (I skipped some also).

I admit I am just getting into the .22 rimfire competition. And.. I have not entered into any competition yet and won't until I'm ready with my rifle. But this new adventure came from a professional archery background and a desire to excel and achieve now at age 63. I and my Grandson (15) this summer shot my new KIDD .22 target rifle. We shot many different high end brands through it and kept data. My Grandson and I both know a "good shot" from a bad shot. He was taught early on. And for those who don't know what I mean... I can't explain here.

The verdict is still out: After shooting many RWS rifle match 5 shot groups he and I both shoot groups of 1.5 bullet hole groups at 50 yds.each. We then completely broke down rifle, cleaned and reassembled.

Then we tried Eley Force 50 ammo: This round improved groups by about 15%. But couldn't be reproduced after switching lot #'s. We then broke down rifle, cleaned and reassembled.

Next was Center-X ammo: This ammo shot GREAT... except for 1 out of 5 shots. 4 shots would share a 1.25 bullet hole group with the "flyer" being 0.5 out of a single bullet hole group.

Then the weather turned bad down here in Middle TN. and I quit trying all the other high end ammo last fall. I closed down the barn door, worked on my toy box orders and I'll resume this spring.

I never posted any pics because I thought some folks weren't interested or offended... So here's a few and anybody who want any more info just ask and I'll be glad to post for you... Thanks, Brad

 

[Limitool]

Limitool, did you ever build your 10/22? I finally got mine done. Between the stamp and the refinishing and everything else, it took a bit longer than I'd planned, but it's almost there. The important stuff is all done anyway. I'd kept the option of an aftermarket barrel open, but although the chopped factory one is a bit heavier than I'd like, it seems to be doing the job. More testing is required of course.

View attachment 1669432

When you consider that you're looking for a target rifle and I was essentially looking for a stocked rimfire pistol, and that we can both build what we want off the same firearm...well, that's a pretty flexible design I'd say.

Yes Dave... I got my build... built. But i still have some things to do and much to learn. I'm waiting for the weather to break here to continue data collection and further ammo tryouts. I think your project is "1" thing and mine another possibly...? But hell I'm probably wrong as I don't know much about firearms. Did you build your firearm off a Ruger 10/22 basis?