shipwreck video

[Voldbjerg]

here are a interesting tv programme about shipwreck hunting
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d..._SsPwE9qv-Ab2jvWtDQ&q=shipwreck&view=2&dur=3#

 

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[capt dom]

Now there is a guy who knows his stuff about china plates, bowls, diving finding shipwrecks,
and collecting tea cups and dishware.... My only comment is where
and what about everything else that usually is associated with shipwrecks like navigational
gear, dividers, canons, cannon balls, anchors swivel guns, teals (I think they call their coins) ...

I mean no disrespect to Sven or whatever his name is but his preoccupation with porcelain and fired
objects does leave one wondering what about everything else that obviously was there....

Sven's boat costs money - as does his electronic gear, dive gear, diesel fuel and food for the crew.

Where does he stand on the sale of "other" artifacts he has found over the years....

Or, are we not suppose to ask

 

[Alexandre]

When I see divers so-called "maritime archaelogists" going in and coming out of the water without any measuring tools, notepads or drawings boards, anything is possible...

anyhow, selling ceramics is that guy's breadwinner:

http://www.thewanlishipwreck.com/

(maybe, just maybe, that's why we only talks about them. As far as I coudl tell, he does seem to be an expert on the field)


Anyhow, this information about this Wanli "portuguese" shipwreck has been duly noted (that, and the fact that it contained human bones) and I have just finished an email to my Goverment reporting it. Who says treasure hunting cant be fun?

 

[capt dom]

Thank you for the info...
If Sten (not Sven I guess) is flipping artifacts on the internet
My hat is off to him. Money to support exploration and research has
to come from somewhere.

Go for it Sten!

 

[Salvor6]

Capt. Dom, Sten has donated all artifacts including 30% of all the cargo to the Malaysian National Museum. His company is also training Malaysian nationals to become marine archaeologists. Something the Portuguese can only dream of. Since it was a private merchant vessel it may not have any cannons. After spending all their money on ceramics there may not be very many coins left on the ship. This story is about ceramics, not the boring notepads and measuring tools. Who wants to see that?

 

[crzhors]

Alexandre, Thank you for taking it upon yourself to notify the Port. Gov of these Pirates. I'm sure they will dispatch a team to take over the recovery and preservation of this "Treasure Cache"....

 

[Alexandre]

I pretty much doubt it. Unfortunately, the Portuguese Government has a bunch of spineless politicians, that dont' have the guts to put the laws they approve where there mouth is.

Maybe, just maybe, someone will harass the Malaysian Government with some questions. My big weapon is their wallet: a lot of Portuguese divers usually goes diving in Malaysia. Now, I pretty much they will be going there, now that they have seen how that country treats better coral than our sovereign vessels, with human remains still inside. A nice, public campaign will show Malaysia how much she can loose on tourism revenue.

 

[Salvor6]

Alexandre read the article. The vessels that Nanhai Marine Archaeology LLC are excavating are not Portuguese national ships. They were built in Malaysia (or India) by Chineese shipwrights and had a Malaysian crew. NMA is doing a great job and they are teaching marine archaeology to the locals. It sounds like you are jealous because they didn't invite you.

 

[ivan salis]

land based archies have found human bones for at least the last hundred plus years , did they go "whoa" we found human bones STOP EVERYTHING --PULL OUT , END OF THIS JOB --when they were in king tuts tomb -- of course they didn't --they actully took the "human bones" aka as a mummy and put them on "display" to be gawked at .

the world on the living is built upon the bones of the dead , at practically any place on the earth --some one at some time in the past "died" -- taking the ideal of never disturb the dead to extremes would make it so the living would have no room to build a home or exist -- waterborne historical shipwreck research / treasure excavation is in its young stages still -- as a site of death / graveyard type issue -- human bones should not be brought up except as a means of indentifying which nationality it might be if the vessels nationality ? ID is in doubt ---the human remains then should be replaced from where they came from with all due respect.


that said the dead can not be allowed to grasp and withhold from the living the useful and valuible cargo their vessels were carrying -- on land these days , even the car from a fatal car crash on land is "recycled" for the use of future humans--- the water borne dead of the past have no "right" to withhold things of value and use from the living -- of course we should not treat the sea borne dead dead rudely and should attempt to recover anything of value in the least distruptive manner as possible .

 

[Alexandre]

Ever heard the expression "grave robber"?

Ask the UK or the US navies... when I searched for two American wrecks in the Azores (a Civil War blockade runner loaded with the prototypes of the first electrical naval mines and the vessel of the guy that invented the pattern of the Stars and Stripes) I did ask for the US Navy approval... check these:

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-7h.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7454578.stm

http://www.royal-navy.org/lib/index.php?title=Court_victory_over_WWII_war_grave

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...ryShipwrecksProtectedAsFinalRestingPlaces.htm

 

[ivan salis]

key wording that needs to be addressed-- us and uk MILITARY vessels * -- by world wide agrements govt warships * are off limits to all -- trading vessels are however not , some govts are trying to claim every ship was a "govt owned" warship --( mainly the ones with worth while treasure upon them) which is total BS and they know it --

merchant vessels for thousands of years have had the "law of salvage" applied to them -- it is a long standing legal right --to claim that which is lost at sea for a profiet .

 

[Salvor6]

Yes Alexandre we know. It doesn't matter if it is a soverign American warship. If you want to excavate it, You should get permission! What would you call Zahi Hwass of the Egyptian Supreme Antiquities Council? A grave robber?

 

[Alexandre]

Is an unarmed confederate blockade runner a warship? I think not... yet, the US Navy claims it.

Was the armed corsair General Armstrong a US Navy ship? It was not, that's why it had a corsair patent...

All Portuguese ships fitted and armed by the Crown were Government ships - he who pays, owns.

Anyhow, I stand corrected - I checked with some people on the knowing and what Nanhai has is not a Portuguese ship.

When they write on their site that the 'Wanli' vessel was a privately owned Portuguese ship which loaded the porcelain cargo in Macao around AD. 1625 that's a fantasy. What they have is a chinese ship that happened to have loaded some pre-ordered decorated porcelain (that, folks, is the main difference between archaeology and maritime fiction).

 

[ivan salis]

when the confederate govt surrendered to the US govt all items owned by the confederates automatically transfered ownership to the american govt -- including all vessels armed or unarmed that were in confederate service -- they all became us govt property * thus its a US govt vessel.

the same goes for any confederate treasury money should it be found * --the US govt can and will claim ownership by "right of victory" over the confederate govt --"to the victor goes the spoils of war"

the same goes for pirate vessels -- if the US govt forces fought em and beat em the US gov will claim it --as "spoil of war"