✅ SOLVED Small button with fouled anchor

[baytraderbutch]

Can anyone help me identify this button. Its brass and has the remains of a ring on the back. It was found in an area where I have been finding coins from the mid 1800s up to modern coins. The material is a dredge pile from the MS Sound. There was a naval battle just days before the Battle Of New Orleans near here and activity during the civil war. Any help would be appreciated. This is my first post with a photo so lets see how it worked out. The button is very dark with a lot a wear or so it appears.
Thanks

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[Silver Searcher]

Just class them as common blazer buttons, that's what usually happens when people have no idea what they are

SS

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[baytraderbutch]

Romeo my button as you can see by the penny for comparison is small. I have see large buttons that have the same anchor and could be used for a coat.
I did see, about midway down the page, a button like mine on that button web page that said Merchant Marine. I didnt see any markings on the rear of the
button but didnt see the anchor at first. I will look for a mark. The button has been buried in the sand under salt water so the loop on the rear is mostly gone but looks like it would be as the one you have posted. As far as the anchor its identical. So what would you guys suggest to determine what it is?

Here's mine...front and back.

View attachment 917326

View attachment 917328

 

[baytraderbutch]

Baytraderbutch wrote:
> Cannonballguy I scrolled down about 3/4 down the page and found the same photo with this id. Thanks again guys.
> Britain - Canada
> Merchant Navy
> Private Purchase - 1774-1812

Actually, that is not the same photo (meaning, it does not appear twice on the Colchester webpage). The photo in the Royal Navy section shows an anchor whose hooks-section is very V-shaped. The one in the Non Royal Navy section looks similar but the anchor's hooks-section is shaped like a wide smile. The button you found has the very V-shaped anchor. That is why I went with the Colchester website's ID of it as a Royal Navy button. Look closely and you'll see your button's anchor's hooks-section does not match the Britain-Canada Merchant Navy button. See the anchor's details in those two Colchester photos, below.

By the way, the anchor's crossbar is also different.

Compare the details in the two photos, below.

Yes I see what you mean, so this would be a British Navy button? I sure appreciate the effort here this is the oldest object I have found thus far. Thanks
again. What makes this more interesting to me is how it got where it was. There was a small skirmish here leading up to the Battle of New Orleans.

 

[CRUSADER]

We are talking about one type of button that varies to a small degree, but they are not similar. I went with agreeing they are similar because you said it, but the truth is they are obviously different. It's actually black and white to me - not even close. As for the others, especially the ones at the top on the right, they are also very common and I wouldn't be surprised if they are merchant navy, or some kind of shipping button, but I have never seen an ID for them. I'm like many others, if it's not an issued British Royal Navy button I don't have any reference material on them, and haven't really cared or paid much attention to them. Now that it comes up I'll check my same pages with the other little one and see if he has these listed too. He does have quite a few misc. types in there, so maybe.

This is why I would like to get to the bottom of them all, maybe all mine are Merchant Navy, but that means quite a bit of differences. All I would like is the answers, & I don't feel we are any closer yet.

 

[Iron Patch]

Romeo my button as you can see by the penny for comparison is small. I have see large buttons that have the same anchor and could be used for a coat.
I did see, about midway down the page, a button like mine on that button web page that said Merchant Marine. I didnt see any markings on the rear of the
button but didnt see the anchor at first. I will look for a mark. The button has been buried in the sand under salt water so the loop on the rear is mostly gone but looks like it would be as the one you have posted. As far as the anchor its identical. So what would you guys suggest to determine what it is?

I'll correct you on that one, and is another very interesting point to be made for these.... they are all cuff size! Roughly about 13mm. (so I can basically guarantee you, you never seen a large one) Considering that fact, or what I consider it to be darn close to fact from all the years I've seen these, it leads me to believe the opinion on them having multiple use is likely wrong. That is unless they were on a generic type coat, and that coat was used by the various services mentioned.

 

[Iron Patch]

This is why I would like to get to the bottom of them all, maybe all mine are Merchant Navy, but that means quite a bit of differences. All I would like is the answers, & I don't feel we are any closer yet.

I agree, because I was never even 100% sold on Merchant Navy.... although as I've said a few times in this post it sounds like it makes sense.

 

[baytraderbutch]

I agree, because I was never even 100% sold on Merchant Navy.... although as I've said a few times in this post it sounds like it makes sense.

So where do you guys find these buttons? I see posts about civil war era buttons found around old civil war sites but where do you find these buttons? I found mine at a dredge site but not sure how it got where it was being a British button.

 

[Iron Patch]

So where do you guys find these buttons? I see posts about civil war era buttons found around old civil war sites but where do you find these buttons? I found mine at a dredge site but not sure how it got where it was being a British button.

For me it's farm fields that once had early home sites, but that's not strange because I have dug thousands of early buttons at these places including a large number of military.

 

[baytraderbutch]

I appreciate the information Iorn Patch. The site I am currently digging is dredge spoils and has produced lots of nice stuff. Gold ring, several 1800 era coins early 1900s coins
and a lot of interesting things that are of no real value except curiosity like old casings and shot gun shells even a few bullets. Its an area near an old popular swimming area with a playground and public piers for many years, as well as many buildings that have been washed away by Hurricanes since the area was settled. Ive learned a lot about where to look digging this area. I'm not done yet I pulled a 1917 wheatie and one that was unreadable a couple of days ago.

 

[Iron Patch]

I appreciate the information Iorn Patch. The site I am currently digging is dredge spoils and has produced lots of nice stuff. Gold ring, several 1800 era coins early 1900s coins
and a lot of interesting things that are of no real value except curiosity like old casings and shot gun shells even a few bullets. Its an area near an old popular swimming area with a playground and public piers for many years, as well as many buildings that have been washed away by Hurricanes since the area was settled. Ive learned a lot about where to look digging this area. I'm not done yet I pulled a 1917 wheatie and one that was unreadable a couple of days ago.

Well you can be sure the button is old, there's no question about that. So who knows what else you will find there.

 

[CRUSADER]

I found mine in ploughed land in the middle of England.

I have an important update in my home email. I went for more clarification because this really began to confuse me. When he looked at the poor quality picture he never saw the lack of fouled rope, so his thoughts are now different. I will attached the info later.

I also never said where they were found, I like the IDs to be free of hints.

 

[Silver Searcher]

If it is a Naval button from the late 1700's early 1800's, it is most likely from a officers uniform, as enlisted men did not wear uniforms until after 1812.

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

I found mine in ploughed land in the middle of England.

I have an important update in my home email. I went for more clarification because this really began to confuse me. When he looked at the poor quality picture he never saw the lack of fouled rope, so his thoughts are now different. I will attached the info later.

I also never said where they were found, I like the IDs to be free of hints.

I thought of that when I first read his reply, not so much that he didn't see the rope, but that he was grouping it in with the many that have rope... because they better fit what he wrote.

 

[CRUSADER]

I thought of that when I first read his reply, not so much that he didn't see the rope, but that he was grouping it in with the many that have rope... because they better fit what he wrote.

Yes, I finally got some clarity, because only a very few Navy buttons didn't have the rope. I still hope to get a reply on my 2 'similar' ones without rope. He may have replied to that as well. I will wait & see.

 

[Iron Patch]

If it is a Naval button from the late 1700's early 1800's, it is most likely from a officers uniform, as enlisted men did not wear uniforms until after 1812.

SS

Can't see that for a few reasons. The first is they are not gilted, 2nd they are extremely different and only the small size, and 3rd they are not included in any reference material with the issued officer buttons... at least my reference material which is pretty decent.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Can't see that for a few reasons. The first is they are not gilted, 2nd they are extremely different and only the small size, and 3rd they are not included in ant reference material with the issued officer buttons... at least my reference material which is pretty decent.

In 1817, after 42 years of confusion over enlisted men's attire, the War Department finally dared to enforce a uniform regulation for its rag-clad naval force, demanding that enlisted men wear "blue jackets and trousers, red vest with yellow buttons and a black hat.

 

[baytraderbutch]

I found mine in ploughed land in the middle of England.

I have an important update in my home email. I went for more clarification because this really began to confuse me. When he looked at the poor quality picture he never saw the lack of fouled rope, so his thoughts are now different. I will attached the info later.

I also never said where they were found, I like the IDs to be free of hints.

Crusader when I first found it I thought it was from some kids cloths like a sailor suit or something because we are a coastal town. Now of course I know better but seeing that you found them in England and Ironman finding them at farms I guess its not so strange that one might end up here. I love digging history. Coins and gold are great and I love that as well but learning about things from the early years of my area and anyplace for that matter is the most fun.

 

[Iron Patch]

Crusader when I first found it I thought it was from some kids cloths like a sailor suit or something because we are a coastal town. Now of course I know better but seeing that you found them in England and Ironman finding them at farms I guess its not so strange that one might end up here. I love digging history. Coins and gold are great and I love that as well but learning about things from the early years of my area and anyplace for that matter is the most fun.

Not strange at all. What might be a little strange that it seems I have found way more than Crusader, which is usually not the case for most British finds.

 

[CRUSADER]

Crusader when I first found it I thought it was from some kids cloths like a sailor suit or something because we are a coastal town. Now of course I know better but seeing that you found them in England and Ironman finding them at farms I guess its not so strange that one might end up here. I love digging history. Coins and gold are great and I love that as well but learning about things from the early years of my area and anyplace for that matter is the most fun.

One of the reason's I like IDs without any findspot information is because it can skew peoples thinking. We should all use the IDs to help build the picture, not the other way around. What I've found in detecting is that many pictures make no sense at all. Anything can turn up & it will likely turn up where you least expect it. (although yours makes perfect sense)

I'm at Dads at the moment & will post the update in about 2 hours when at home.

 

[CRUSADER]

Not strange at all. What might be a little strange that it seems I have found way more than Crusader, which is usually not the case for most British finds.

This is why the ID might shed some light. I think French Navy was mentioned (along with others), does that fit your references? (I thought you may have already said by now though??)