Sounding weights and navigational devices...

[PhipsFolly]

I was just curious as to how many and what types of navigational instruments (dividers, sounding weights, and ?) have been recovered from the 1715 Fleet wrecksites.

I personally have recovered a pair of Dutch dividers and a pair of Spanish dividers and two different size lead sounding weights... One small sounding weight (havent checked the actual weight yet) and one very large 24 Pounder! Both the same shape and design with the divot in the bottom to check the bottom composition.

I have seen some odd shaped sounding weights from other wrecks and always wondered whether there was a particular reason for the varying shapes and sizes or whether it was simply the makers personal choice... Any thoughts?

 

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[FindSomeGold]

How small is the smallest sounding weight you found? I'm curious about the 1733 supposed sounding weight pictured here, which seems too small: The Treasure Beaches Report brought to you from Florida's Treasure Coast.: 9/6/12 Report - New Shipwreck Possibly Found, New Finds & Higher Seas

 

[signumops]

Here's what possibly was a pair of dividers found on a 1715 site in 2011. There was a brass knob at one end. It mysteriously disappeared down the rathole at the the conservation lab. Imagine that.

 

[pvet7521]

sounding weight , money bag seal

This sounding weight was found under the long key viaduct, ocean side. The small object i believe is a lead seal from a bag of some kind it is stamped on one side and has the letters NDSIM. It is from the same era as the weight and was found same location gulf side about 200 yds from pile encased in 4" limestone. Has anyone seen a seal like that before.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Terry, that sure has a lot of encrustation on it to be bronze. I worked in that lab for a while and never knew of the "rathole" you speak of, is this a common occurance? Sometimes things were totally oxidized inside encrustation, but we never "lost" anything while I was there working under Bill Moore. Strange indeed.

These aren't from the 1715, but here is a good sampling of different sizes and styles of sounding weights we have found. The smallest one may well be a fishing weight, but it was found on a wreck site so we leave the possibility open until we can prove one way or the other for sure.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Nice display Jason.

 

[GOHO]

So, by your comments Terry, you are questioning Bill Moores honesty and integrity, someone who has been in the business for many years and who holds the highest respect among many salvors.... hummmm

I looked at your log and attached the photo of your so called "Navigational Dividers"...



Looks to me like an Iron EO which turned out to be nothing and was totally oxidized... boo hoo no brass anywhere...

Now here is a photo of a real pair of navigational dividers that was found in 2011..



Humm..... I see a big difference here... Of course i do have some shipwreck experience... Terry, feel free to print the before and after photos so if you ever do find a pair of Navigational dividers you will recognize the difference.


It sure would be nice if this fourm was actually used for shipwrecks instead of trying to bash people with baseless claims!!!!

 

[PhipsFolly]

Hi All... thanks for your great responses and photos! Guys, lets not have a pissing match and keep personal opinions out of the tread... 'preciate it.

While I have not weighed my small sounding weight, it looks to be about the same size as the smallest one shown in ScubaFinders photo (approx. 3 inches tall). Mine is definately a sounding weight as it has the wax pocket in the base and is the same style as my large 24 lb. sounding weight... basically the same type as the largest one in Scubafinders photo... both of my recoveries came from the beach in Corrigans Wreck area.

As for the Navigational Dividers, I found one pair that are exactly the same as the Spanish Calipers above in GOHOs photos but mine were not brass (iron) and were recovered on the beach inshore from a 1715 site near one of the survivors encampments.

Additionally, I found a bronze pair of Dutch Nav Dividers on the beach at the E-110 (1715 Fleet) site (no longer called E-110, has new designation now) in Vero Beach. They are mentioned in a book about this wreck written by Marine Archaeologist Rob Westrick... a good read.

 

[signumops]

Greg:
Appreciate the public record at long last. This forum does serve my purposes well. When you dig something up that is metal, and you can't identify it, I've always thought it best to turn the item in for conservation with the ultimate intention of actually finding out what the thing might be. As I recollect, this is best practice according to the state's position. I did that and have had to go to all this trouble for a final answer.
I don't think Bill Moore has anything to do with this.

Thanks for the beautiful pictures of the dividers.

 

[PhipsFolly]

Here are some pics of the dividers I recovered from the beach inshore from the 1715 Fleet E110 site:

 

[mad4wrecks]

Phips, what identifies the dividers as being Dutch? Do you think that necessarily means the (now) E132 shipwreck was one the Dutch ships in the 1715 fleet?

 

[PhipsFolly]

Hey Tom,

From researching various types of navigational dividers, it was my understanding that this particular type or style was Dutch in origin and yes, certainly there is a possibility that this was one of the Dutch made vessels in the fleet, however... I will say this... obviously items of this nature are portable and of course every nation had items made by other nations in their possession, whether through trade or piracy so just because these dividers were of Dutch origin, it does not necessarily mean that this was one of the Dutch made vessels... your guess is as good as mine. Best, Mike